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I dont think Virtanen has the IQ to become a top 6 forward.

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9 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I disagree completely. They were just reporting what happened online through social media after the loss. There was an explosion of PEOPLE across Canada blaming Jake online for the loss, making him the goat - which is reflected in the headline. Both of the articles (yes I read them) actually defended Jake. The headline reflected public opinion, which was true, not the opinion Province writers. I don't see how that is bottom feeding on their part. Should they have ignored that explosion of online blame because he's a local kid or Canucks draft pick? I wasn't upset about the headline or the linked articles at all. I was upset about the number of people across Canada laying ALL the blame on Jake for the loss. 

That's a reasonable argument about that one article, but it's a sample of one.  I think the main point here is not whether or not Jake was responsible for the team losing, that's water under the bridge, it's about the quality and style of the Province's reporting in general.  If one looks at the Province's quality and style of reporting over a longer time frame and over many articles then one can clearly see a pattern of low-brow reporting.  Personally I call that rag the "Provincial Enquirer" based on their style of "journalism".  That's just my opinion, but I don't think that I'm the only one who thinks that.  The line between news and entertainment has been blurred and there seems to be no going back.  Go Canucks Go!

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15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

great points Baggins.  

I think if what you are indicating wasn't an outlier, I might tend to give them the benefit of the doubt more than I do/did in this instance (which may misrepresent them to the extent that you feel they are 'defending' Virtanen).

The larger point is certainly true - this didn't really originate with the Province - so I take your point (although the Province's own track record in this kind of sense, has still been pretty damn bleak - they don't need cues from social media or Onterrible media in order to engage in trolling this team).  I'm not going to dredge the many examples - because your point is not a general one - in this particular case, I think your point is a really good one.

Don't get me wrong, the articles didn't exonerate Jake from blame, which was fair. He did contribute to the loss. But the public explosion laying full blame on him was unfair and the articles explained why. The headline was just a truthful reflection of what happened across Canada. People love to play the blame game and Jake made himself the easiest target. Many overreacted to the headline, assuming the Province also blamed Jake or agreed with the sentiment, and didn't bother reading the linked articles which were quite the opposite.

 

That aside I often find people here overreact to criticism of our players or team. Often the criticism is actually fair.

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5 minutes ago, Baggins said:

The headline was just a truthful reflection of what happened across Canada.

The reporters don't create the headlines, and sometimes you end up wondering if that person even read the article.

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14 minutes ago, gurn said:

The reporters don't create the headlines, and sometimes you end up wondering if that person even read the article.

Guilty.

Admittedly - the Province is not a place I go to read - or gain information.

 

And in this case - it wasn't simply a headline - it's a full page "Goat-medal winner".  

 

If that's not sensationalized bait, not sure what is. 

Kudos to them for making the small print an outlier from their typical efforts - have read enough of them over the years to know enough to steer clear - of all the things I've learned from hockey media, I'm not sure any of it ever originated from that source.

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Just now, gurn said:

The reporters don't create the headlines, and sometimes you end up wondering if that person even read the article.

The headline was in fact the story. People across Canada did lay the blame for the loss on Jake, making him out as the goat. The headline was fair as it was accurate to what occurred and what the articles were about. The discrepancy is that many believed the headline to reflect what the Province and it's writers believed rather than reading the articles which were quite the opposite.

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5 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Guilty.

Admittedly - the Province is not a place I go to read - or gain information.

 

And in this case - it wasn't simply a headline - it's a full page "Goat-medal winner".  

 

If that's not sensationalized bait, not sure what is. 

Kudos to them for making the small print an outlier from their typical efforts - have read enough of them over the years to know enough to steer clear - of all the things I've learned from hockey media, I'm not sure any of it ever originated from that source.

I believe the full page just reflected the ridiculous amount of online hatred Jake received after the loss. The online reaction was big enough, and vile enough, to make mainstream national news rather than just the sports segments. Much of it crossed way over the line. No kid deserves that.

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You don’t really need to be a hockey genius to play the game.  
Jake can skate and shoot with the best of them.  
Sometimes all you need to do is keep your stick on the ice, skate really fast and shoot as hard as you can.   He has proven he can put up points playing with potatoes.  
Who’s to say it won’t work with better players?   

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Depends how they use him I suppose. If he's standing in front and battling, and playing with the heart of a Gallagher, then he'll be great. If he continues to avoid the tough areas and plays scared, then he'll continue to disappoint.

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On 10/15/2020 at 10:34 AM, apollo18 said:

discuss

Jake needs time to establish himself in a top 6 role. Put him up there and let's see if he can gel with either Petey or Bo. Don't demote him or bench him when he makes mistakes, as all players do. If Jake can gain confidence and bring a great effort /compete level every game, I think he is more than capable of helping round out our top 6. As many fans know, this spot in the top 6 is his for the taking. He has got to earn it as competition could come from Baer, Gaud or even Ferland if healthy. Hopefully this internal fight will push him to train well this off season and seize the moment!

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11 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

Jake needs time to establish himself in a top 6 role. Put him up there and let's see if he can gel with either Petey or Bo. Don't demote him or bench him when he makes mistakes, as all players do. If Jake can gain confidence and bring a great effort /compete level every game, I think he is more than capable of helping round out our top 6. As many fans know, this spot in the top 6 is his for the taking. He has got to earn it as competition could come from Baer, Gaud or even Ferland if healthy. Hopefully this internal fight will push him to train well this off season and seize the moment!

Besides the reference to Ferland, this statement could easily be an archived copy of a post from every off season since Jake has been here.  I'm not saying I have the answer, Jake is an enigma. But you know what they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  I just don't have much faith anymore that Jake will suddenly see the light. "Oh...I get now.....they want me to play smarter and hustle more. Why didn't they say so?" 

Yes, Jake could be a third line winger, based on his hockey IQ. That's not a bad thing. But if he doesn't have the natural IQ, which cannot be taught at this point, he has to have the hustle. Motte was another player that lit it up in junior, and probably will never see top  6 duty, but dang it, he's a millionaire, in his 20's, and playing a sport he loves for a living. Could be worse.

 

Terrible managing to let slip away Toffoli. Now its back to choosing LE or Jake to round out our top 6 on any given night, whomever is screwing the pooch less at the moment.  Hopefully Leivo and/or Ferland comes back.

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Go look at videos of when Virtanen was drafted.  Scouting report on him was that he's a man-child, physical, simple north-south game, good speed and shot.  No hockey IQ.

 

I think that's been pretty on point with his career, though unfortunately with his shoulder history he's had to limit his physicality.  Add onto his lack of defensive awareness, he has a bad attitude and has now on multiple occasions shown up to camp fat.  His physical and offensive abilities aren't strong enough (IMO) to overcome his lack of hockey sense.  He won't play on the 2nd line because he can't play a shut down role.  So reports say he might play on the top line, if he does and sticks there then he could have a career year (25 goals?).  Though our coach doesn't put up with bad defensive play and I don't think JV will last long on the top line. 

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For the naysayers who say Jake can't play on the top line? This is what he can do when given the opportunity. I would like to see what he can do with more icetime and more meaningful minutes in the top 6 and PP. His points and plus minus look pretty good when he is given the opportunity.

Oh, and by the way, both those goals were game winners too.

 

48 2020-01-16 48 23-152 VAN   ARI W 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 50.0 19 14:29 0 0 0 1 0.0
49 2020-01-18 49 23-154 VAN   SJS W 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 4 0.0 23 14:56 2 0 0 1 0.0
50 2020-01-27 50 23-163 VAN   STL W 0 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 2 0.0 23 14:33 1 1 0 0  
51 2020-01-29 51 23-165 VAN @ SJS W 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 2 50.0 28 17:34 0 1 0 1 0.0
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7 hours ago, kilgore said:

Besides the reference to Ferland, this statement could easily be an archived copy of a post from every off season since Jake has been here.  I'm not saying I have the answer, Jake is an enigma. But you know what they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  I just don't have much faith anymore that Jake will suddenly see the light.

You may not have much faith in Jake to seize a permanent spot in our top 6 but mgmt seems intent on taking some more kicks in the can with this player. Jake is a young man, still learning to be a pro and has a unique set of tools (combo of size, speed & shot) that nobody else on our roster currently has). I am glad canucks brass are willing to continue with his development and hopefully we see some maturation. If not, we cut bait in a year or 2 or he becomes a 3rd liner who can play up when needed. At the end of the day, it is on Jake to make the most out of his hockey career but I am glad mgmt is seemingly determined to turn over every rock with him and not move on from him quite yet.

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33 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

You may not have much faith in Jake to seize a permanent spot in our top 6 but mgmt seems intent on taking some more kicks in the can with this player. Jake is a young man, still learning to be a pro and has a unique set of tools (combo of size, speed & shot) that nobody else on our roster currently has). I am glad canucks brass are willing to continue with his development and hopefully we see some maturation. If not, we cut bait in a year or 2 or he becomes a 3rd liner who can play up when needed. At the end of the day, it is on Jake to make the most out of his hockey career but I am glad mgmt is seemingly determined to turn over every rock with him and not move on from him quite yet.

I am thinking that Ferlund is pretty much done, which is unfortunate, because he is truly the kind of player we needed in the top 6. We need a big, aggressive player who can keep up with his line mates and pot in the odd goal here and there.

Jake is our best opportunity of getting that player, if , he is given the opportunity. 

You are right, after 2 years, if we still don't see that player, then let him go. The problem is that the coach insists on benching him when he makes a mistake, ..................for the past 5-6 seasons!!!!!

Time for change for both Jake and Green. 

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On 10/15/2020 at 10:57 AM, Pears said:

Couple of things regarding this post

 

1) It was looking like we were going to lose Game 5 against St. Louis, then Green put Virtanen with Pettersson and Miller and we proceeded to take over and win that game and eventually the series, so you can’t say for sure he brings top 6 linemates down

 

2) The last two seasons Virtanen was on pace for over 20 goals each year and likely would have gotten there if he wasn’t hurt in 2018-19 and this last season wasn’t cut short. 

 

I really don’t know why people don’t realize power forwards, especially Jake’s kind, take longer than other players to reach their potential. 

Pretty much true, with exceptions, PF's don't start to peak until 26 ish.. Jake is still only 24 and has good players and teachers he'll learn from. Patience and the CDC? Ummm not so much...

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