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GMmaster13

[Speculation] Virtanen deal may be done

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7 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

But you're moving a 1st to dump Loui and then moving further assets to acquire players like Cernak or Tuch and that's assuming they make the deal with us. We already stole Miller and Schmidt from those two teams, so I doubt they're going to make it easy for us this time around.

You don’t make that deal until you know you can acquire one of those players for a price you’re comfortable with.

 

This offseason presents unique opportunities to take advantage of teams. If you can pry Cernak out of Tampa for say a 3rd and a B prospect, even when you add that first it’s a bargain. It sets Hughes up with a young mobile stay at home partner for the next 5 years or more. I pay that price all day long.

 

Edited by DeNiro
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8 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

You don’t make that deal until you know you can acquire one of those players for a price you’re comfortable with.

 

This offseason presents unique opportunities to take advantage of teams. If you can pry Cernak out of Tampa for say a 3rd and a B prospect, even when you add that first it’s a bargain. It sets Hughes up with a young mobile stay at home partner for next 5 years or more. Inlay that price all day long.

All for it, if it can work, but I think it's a lot of moving parts. To try and move Fleury, teams were asking for a 1st and 2nd I believe and wanted retention on top. Teams aren't even taking a solid player in Johnson for free without payment. There aren't any teams needing to reach the cap floor. Ottawa's moves lately seem to indicate they are not in that market anymore. So it's a challenge to set up a trade to move LE himself in the first place. Then you have convince Tampa to move Cernak for cheap. They will exhaust all other options before it gets to that. In the meantime, will those other teams have made moves to fill up the space that they did have.

 

So great if we can get a good deal, I'd just be surprised if it happened. In the meantime, we have an alternative that would be simplified should the other options fail.

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1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

All for it, if it can work, but I think it's a lot of moving parts. To try and move Fleury, teams were asking for a 1st and 2nd I believe and wanted retention on top. Teams aren't even taking a solid player in Johnson for free without payment. There aren't any teams needing to reach the cap floor. Ottawa's moves lately seem to indicate they are not in that market anymore. So it's a challenge to set up a trade to move LE himself in the first place. Then you have convince Tampa to move Cernak for cheap. They will exhaust all other options before it gets to that. In the meantime, will those other teams have made moves to fill up the space that they did have.

 

So great if we can get a good deal, I'd just be surprised if it happened. In the meantime, we have an alternative that would be simplified should the other options fail.

I think Ottawa will definitely consider it if we pay a 1st. Cap space is not an issue. And it really shouldn’t matter if they have to pay 5 million for a bottom 6 player for the next two years while rebuilding. Small price for a first round pick that they could be banking on being a mid round pick.

 

As for Tampa yes that’s a tough deal to make. But they’re gonna reach a point where they realize nobody wants Johnson and Killorn unless they pay a hefty price. I don’t see how they dump both those guys. It’s more likely they have to dump one of their three RFAs and Cernak is the most expendable. So why not get some assets for him rather than pay big to get rid of Johnson?

 

I see Killorn and Cernak going as either a package or in separate deals. either way if the Canucks can be in a position to take advantage they should be all over it.

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Anyone who thinks that Benning has other teams who will be willing to take on LE or BS or SB or any of our other big contracts has to ask themselves why he has waited so long to deal them, if this is the case.  Waiting this long has caused him to miss out on acquiring any extra draft picks this year, as he said he wanted to do.  It has caused him to lose all of his big UFAs.  It has also caused him to miss out on signing any other teams' big UFAs.  I'm pretty sure the sad reality is that no one wants any of our overpriced veterans or they would have already taken them.  Sorry!

Edited by Captain Canuck #12

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1 minute ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Anyone who thinks that Benning has other teams who will be willing to take on LE or BS or SB or any of our other big contracts has to ask themselves why he has waited so long to deal them, if this is the case.  Waiting this long has caused him to miss out on acquiring any extra draft picks this year, as he said he wanted to do.  It has caused him to lose all of his big UFAs.  It has also caused him to miss out on signing any other teams' big UFAs.  I think the sad reality is that no one wants any of our overpriced veterans or they would have already taken them.  Sorry!

It’s because as he stated himself he doesn’t want to pay picks or prospects to unload them. That’s why they’re still here.

 

Seems like he’s sticking to his guns so far.

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2 hours ago, Qwags said:

Doesn't mean he deserves it or that he'll get it.

Given mangiopanes contract, Jake should get between $3-3.5 per year.

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23 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I think Ottawa will definitely consider it if we pay a 1st. Cap space is not an issue. And it really shouldn’t matter if they have to pay 5 million for a bottom 6 player for the next two years while rebuilding. Small price for a first round pick that they could be banking on being a mid round pick.

 

As for Tampa yes that’s a tough deal to make. But they’re gonna reach a point where they realize nobody wants Johnson and Killorn unless they pay a hefty price. I don’t see how they dump both those guys. It’s more likely they have to dump one of their three RFAs and Cernak is the most expendable. So why not get some assets for him rather than pay big to get rid of Johnson?

 

I see Killorn and Cernak going as either a package or in separate deals. either way if the Canucks can be in a position to take advantage they should be all over it.

Why wouldn't Ottawa just take Johnson on waivers? They wouldn't get a 1st, but they'd get a much more useful player. They may take on Loui, but I think the price is higher than ever to do so. I personally just don't think it's a viable option. Benning has stated he isn't using assets to move him either.

 

I think Benning would prefer to move players at 50% retention for whatever he can get, but I'd be surprised if we pay anything especially at the prices now.

 

I think we made our move with Schmidt already and arguably with Holtby on a cheaper deal than expected. Benning isn't going to keep throwing picks away when it really isn't necessary. Cernak would be nice, but we could add Tryamkin next season and may just need a short term stop gap for next year when he arrives. Much less of a headache to manage and less assets blown.

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4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Given mangiopanes contract, Jake should get between $3-3.5 per year.

Care to explain? I don't see that big of a difference from Mangiapane's numbers to Jake's that would warrant up to a million more.

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37 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I think Ottawa will definitely consider it if we pay a 1st. Cap space is not an issue. And it really shouldn’t matter if they have to pay 5 million for a bottom 6 player for the next two years while rebuilding. Small price for a first round pick that they could be banking on being a mid round pick.

 

As for Tampa yes that’s a tough deal to make. But they’re gonna reach a point where they realize nobody wants Johnson and Killorn unless they pay a hefty price. I don’t see how they dump both those guys. It’s more likely they have to dump one of their three RFAs and Cernak is the most expendable. So why not get some assets for him rather than pay big to get rid of Johnson?

 

I see Killorn and Cernak going as either a package or in separate deals. either way if the Canucks can be in a position to take advantage they should be all over it.

 

Tampa wants to try and retain Killorn per Tampa's beat writer Joe Smith in his recap of where things stand earlier this week.  Where have you seen that they have already tried to trade him with no takers?  

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12 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Tampa wants to try and retain Killorn per Tampa's beat writer Joe Smith in his recap of where things stand earlier this week.  Where have you seen that they have already tried to trade him with no takers?  

I don’t know that they tried to trade him I just said I think it might be tough to.

 

Hes 31 and is signed for 3 more seasons plus he has a modified no movement clause. Might make finding a trading partner tough.

 

My prediction is that Cernak needs to be moved. They’ll definitely want to keep Sergachev and Cirelli and there’s no limits to trading Cernak. Probably the most replaceable of the 3 RFAs.

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1 hour ago, Petey_BOI said:

yes, his faceoffs were better and he hit and blocked a bit better.but your lying when he  said his takeways and giveaways were better. two takeaways and 6 giveaways.his his on   ice shooting % and corsi was much lower than his teammates. if your oIS% and corsi are lower you are controlling the puck less and making bad plays with the puck, hint all the giveaways and missed shots

Lol  - you are right! A few weeks ago I had cut and pasted his lines on a memo page, and somehow got the season and playoffs gva and tka reversed.  It was funny, though, cos my eye test watching him play was that he was stressed out in his own end quite a bit.  Threw some good hits, hustled well, tried to get in for the forecheck, but did struggle.  When I looked at the stats I had saved, though, it seemed like he got better after the resumption. Now I see why!!

Moral? Check, then check again, to avoid embarrassment 

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4 hours ago, rekker said:

What message? If you sign a six year contract, barely live up to it the first year, suck for the next three, you will be be sent to the minors? Please send the message, please! Alzner, Ladd were sent to the minors. It happens when you suck. 

Wade Redden was sent to the minors and played there for two years to collect his cheque.  He was a 2nd overall pick too.

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1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wade Redden was sent to the minors and played there for two years to collect his cheque.  He was a 2nd overall pick too.

The question is if there is no AHL season can you still send players down?  
 

Would he get paid to just sit at home or would it open the door to lend him to an SHL club?

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3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The question is if there is no AHL season can you still send players down?  
 

Would he get paid to just sit at home or would it open the door to lend him to an SHL club?

And if there is an AHL season, can we recall anyone? If there is a Canadian division, and if the border is still an issue, we, Edmonton and Calgary are screwed.  Our farm teams are in the US, whereas Winnipeg, (Manitoba Moose), Ottawa (Belleville Senators), Toronto (Marlies) and Montreal (Alex Burrows' Laval Rocket) can all just travel within Canada.  It would make sense for the 3 western teams to have their farm team in Canada for this one season, to facilitate inter-club player movement, and have an AHL Canadian division.

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25 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The question is if there is no AHL season can you still send players down?  
 

Would he get paid to just sit at home or would it open the door to lend him to an SHL club?

Same cap relief to be sent to Europe as in the AHL - only 1.075M can be buried regardless of where he plays.  

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50 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The question is if there is no AHL season can you still send players down?  
 

Would he get paid to just sit at home or would it open the door to lend him to an SHL club?

I don't think even Bettman knows what's going to happen if there is no AHL season.  They are probably still trying to figure it out.

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I heard the folks on 650 or 1040 earlier in the evening chat about what they thought was gonna be the contract. Something like 2M first year and 3M second year. If true, would be fine. I would want us to pay more than that.

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Simple solution. Bo should tell his buddy Baer to "take one for the team". First scrimmage Edler throws a decent hit on Baer(goin down wing), & he falls on his a$$. At bench complains of headache. Tell Docs all the symptoms they need to hear, & he goes on LTIR. "Oh, we're real worried..he's had history with this, yada yada"

 

He gets a gig with team down the road..EU scout? Whatever. They could also tell Sutter to whine about his groin. Take 2 or 3 mos.. no worries. Dude could play a 40-50 gm season, & grab a full salary. Gaudette & others can show their stuff first couple mos

 

I think the US teams pull this scam all the time. Guy says he's concussed..that can't be dis-proven.

 

Anyways, if some real injuries pop up..say guys blocking shots break a foot. Then your LTIR's can come back when the numbers jive.

Just this last yr we have to jump through these hoops. Next yr should be kosher.

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If they can't or won't outright buy out Sutter or Baertschi, retain a million or even 50%. If JB is not even willing to do that, trade em for a b prospect or an undesired player on another team. As long as the player they trade for has a cap hit below $2 million, its a win.  Hell if the Canucks had the cap space and were offered a half decent $4 million dollar player and all we had to give up was a b prospect like Teves, JB would be all over it.  Give em away if you have to.  Future considerations is a thing.  Use it.

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7 hours ago, stawns said:

Given mangiopanes contract, Jake should get between $3-3.5 per year.

Is that some kind of new math? 
 

that does not even come remotely close to correlating to Magpie’s math 
 

 

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