Proposal -- Trade with Ottawa

[dm_ranger]

In an effort to adjust our D and clear up cap space I'm wondering how far down this list we would have to go to get:

Kikita Zitsev from Ottawa:

• RD signed for next 4 years.  4.5 cap hit and owed 4.5 M per year the entire time

 

We send:

• Jordie Benn :
  • 2 million cap hit for one year
  • LD
• Loui Erikson:
  • signed two years.  6 million cap, owed 5 million if we pay this years signing bonus.

 

We do this to lower our cap hit by 3.5 million.  Zitsev plays RD, which gives us a top 5 of Hughes, Schmidt, Edler, Myers, Zitsev.  This allows our 6-8 D  to be our rookies and get playing time.  With Schmidt comfortable on either side we could either:

Hughes  -- Meyer

Schmidt -- Zitsev

Edler -- Rafferty

 

Or:

Hughes -- Schmidt

Edler -- Zitsev

Joulevi - Meyers

 

Why does Ottawa do this?

• Benn is a capable D.
• Saves 2 million in year two, and 4.5 million in each of the next two years.  ($11 million in savings)
• Since this isn't much I expect to add a few sweeteners. 

Which sweeteners do we need to add?

1. retain 1 million on Loui?  (additional $2 million savings)
2. 4th-7th round pick?
3. Chatfield?

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by dm_ranger

[qwijibo]

Have a look at the moves Ottawa has made this offseason.  They aren’t looking to save money, they’re looking to improve and compete.  This deal doesn’t do anything for them 

[J.I.A.H.N]

Does Ottawa really want to get rid of Zitsev?

[mll]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Does Ottawa really want to get rid of Zitsev?

 

Probably not.  DJ Smith asked Dorion to acquire him - they have history together from their time in Toronto.  He plays 22 minutes a night for them - certainly looks like he trusts him.  

 

[Phil_314]

It's increasingly looking like trades like this would only go through with major sweeteners and nothing going back in return.  Benn is not a sweetener and Zaitsev, as mentioned, played 22 minutes a night last season for them.  If we really wanted to rid of Loui entirely then probably a 1st or top prospect goes back since one year of Marc Staal cost the Rangers a 2nd.

I wonder if we might still need to add to even acquire Gudbranson from them (they traded a 5th to Anaheim for him; Jordie would help as he's big, less expensive and versatile and can play right side which is what Ottawa needs too, but again Loui is a major negative, and Guddy seemed happy to return to his hometown).  Still, to rid of the extra year for good, I would probably do Benn, Loui and a 3rd for Gudbranson.    

[86Viking]

I think Ottawa would take on a contract from the absolute dead weight of LE with some nice pieces attached to him to lesser players we would like to move out like Sutter or Roussel with a sweetener added as well.

 

We need to try and revamp the F group somehow, bringing back the same F group is going to leave us looking for a 2nd line winger to help with scoring...pony up and clear some cap space to get someone who can fill that role!

 

When you sign bad contracts it will cost you to get out from under them...hopefully the GM will realize that and NOT do it again

[JeremyCuddles]

Getting Ottawa to take our trash has come and gone. They got solid players for dirt cheap to help reach the floor. Similar to what we did with Schmidt. They probably could still take advantage of a team like Tampa. It's just a matter of Tampa getting Johnson to extend his list to include Ottawa. Lol. Which likely won't happen. But Ottawa is still in a great position to trade scraps for some serviceable players on medium level contracts. On top of the fact the can likely circle back on Duclair. Who has increasingly fewer options. No good team can afford him and they definitely won't be able to break bank for him.

 

Ottawa isn't taking our bad contracts unless we pay them too. But at this point it's a great time to be buying players since so many teams wanna free up cap. They can get actually good players for cheap instead of being paid to take bad contracts. Meaning they can reach the floor and still ice a competitive team. If Johnson can agree to waive his clause for Ottawa that's a player they can get AND likely get assets for him. Imagine pulling a 2nd line center AND maybe a pick or B/C prospect for him. 

[DeltaSwede]

Ottawa has no reason to do this like others are saying. What Ottawa should be doing is to play the long-game and make desperate teams even more desperate to get rid of salary. I.E wait for a better offer/opportunity than that. 

 

They are gonna absolutely fleece a few teams in the next coming months.

[JM_]

5 hours ago, dm_ranger said:

Which sweeteners do we need to add?

1. retain 1 million on Loui?  (additional $2 million savings)
2. 4th-7th round pick?
3. Chatfield?

 

This is the 6 million dollar question. 

 

I can see Ottawa liking Benn, but that would simply be for free. Ottawa will want an a-prospect or a high pick to take Loui, because they don't really need him, although I do think he'd be a useful guy for them. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Ottawa has already hit the cap floor.  They don't need our scraps with sweeteners unless the sweetener is a first round pick or a top prospect.

 

If we could get Chris Tierney I'd be all over that.  Virtanen for Tierney?  We can move Gaudette to wing and see if he works out there.  If he doesn't then we can trade him as well as we have Podkolzin and Lind coming up to take those right wing positions.

[IBatch]

On 10/18/2020 at 7:06 PM, Robert Long said:

This is the 6 million dollar question. 

 

I can see Ottawa liking Benn, but that would simply be for free. Ottawa will want an a-prospect or a high pick to take Loui, because they don't really need him, although I do think he'd be a useful guy for them. 

Nobody took MAF - the ask was a first and a second for half his cap space AND he’s definitely worth 3.5 still.    Detroit probably jumped the gun early on Staal, and could have waited and got a better deal, regardless they can retain 50% salary on him at the TDL and add at least a second maybe more to a contender.    So would consider Staal’s value two seconds which is worth a late first for sure.  After 25th overall there is zero difference in those guys historically and a second rounder anyways (that’s what the data says over the past ten drafts).    LE 50% retained would cost us a first and second plus something because he’s not the same player or nearly as useful as MAF.   Sure a little cheaper, but only 500k not enough.    Bet 50% retained would be a first, second and one of our 7 guys.   Too steep by far, better off just burying him ala Ladd until he’s done. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Nobody took MAF - the ask was a first and a second for half his cap space AND he’s definitely worth 3.5 still.    Detroit probably jumped the gun early on Staal, and could have waited and got a better deal, regardless they can retain 50% salary on him at the TDL and add at least a second maybe more to a contender.    So would consider Staal’s value two seconds which is worth a late first for sure.  After 25th overall there is zero difference in those guys historically and a second rounder anyways (that’s what the data says over the past ten drafts).    LE 50% retained would cost us a first and second plus something because he’s not the same player or nearly as useful as MAF.   Sure a little cheaper, but only 500k not enough.    Bet 50% retained would be a first, second and one of our 7 guys.   Too steep by far, better off just burying him ala Ladd until he’s done. 

Thats insanity to pay that to move him. At this point I'd be fine if Jim decided to buy him out now, it doesn't save much this year but at least he's no longer the teams highest paid F.

 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Robert Long said:

Thats insanity to pay that to move him. At this point I'd be fine if Jim decided to buy him out now, it doesn't save much this year but at least he's no longer the teams highest paid F.

 

Yes it is insane.   Both Vegas and all the rest of the league didn’t take MAF ... with 50% retained the league asked for a 1st and a 2nd.  Vegas said no thx.   IF they agreed then Vegas retained 3.5 for two years and someone got a very good price on a vet goalie with lots of accolades.  Plus a first and a second.  What’s TRULY insane is the proposals for LE and a second plus Rafferty and it gets done east peasy what’s wrong with JB?!!   Ha ha.  It’s hilarious really.   I wanted us to go after MAF .... not for the ask but to weaponize our cap instead of Holtby.   That said we still did so wow aren’t we lucky.   A third for Schmidt is a fleecing of epic proportions.    No LE isn’t going anywhere- maybe not even the minors unless TG is convinced someone can take his spot.  Like Sutter might as well play him, he’s worth maybe 2, so 4 lost cap for two more years.   It is what it is.    To dump LE, given the ask for MAF (who is still a fully functional vet and considered the best teammate anyone could hope for by virtually all the players and staff ever connected to him),  think two firsts and Rathbone or OJ or Demko.   That might get a deal done.   Does it seem worth it to you?   Anyone saying a second and even Podz is dreaming and smoking something I’d like to try. 
 

Edit:  at this point I’d be switching sides to full on JB bashing if he bought him out.  We don’t need 4 more years of wasted cap on this guy.   Just bury him, enjoy the cap savings for two years and maybe he will leave but doubt it. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by IBatch

[JM_]

42 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes it is insane.   Both Vegas and all the rest of the league didn’t take MAF ... with 50% retained the league asked for a 1st and a 2nd.  Vegas said no thx.   IF they agreed then Vegas retained 3.5 for two years and someone got a very good price on a vet goalie with lots of accolades.  Plus a first and a second.  What’s TRULY insane is the proposals for LE and a second plus Rafferty and it gets done east peasy what’s wrong with JB?!!   Ha ha.  It’s hilarious really.   I wanted us to go after MAF .... not for the ask but to weaponize our cap instead of Holtby.   That said we still did so wow aren’t we lucky.   A third for Schmidt is a fleecing of epic proportions.    No LE isn’t going anywhere- maybe not even the minors unless TG is convinced someone can take his spot.  Like Sutter might as well play him, he’s worth maybe 2, so 4 lost cap for two more years.   It is what it is.    To dump LE, given the ask for MAF (who is still a fully functional vet and considered the best teammate anyone could hope for by virtually all the players and staff ever connected to him),  think two firsts and Rathbone or OJ or Demko.   That might get a deal done.   Does it seem worth it to you?   Anyone saying a second and even Podz is dreaming and smoking something I’d like to try. 
 

Edit:  at this point I’d be switching sides to full on JB bashing if he bought him out.  We don’t need 4 more years of wasted cap on this guy.   Just bury him, enjoy the cap savings for two years and maybe he will leave but doubt it. 

it all depends on how much we need the 2-2.3 mil in cap space next season. At least it doesn't cost us an asset. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Yes it is insane.   Both Vegas and all the rest of the league didn’t take MAF ... with 50% retained the league asked for a 1st and a 2nd.  Vegas said no thx.   IF they agreed then Vegas retained 3.5 for two years and someone got a very good price on a vet goalie with lots of accolades.  Plus a first and a second.  What’s TRULY insane is the proposals for LE and a second plus Rafferty and it gets done east peasy what’s wrong with JB?!!   Ha ha.  It’s hilarious really.   I wanted us to go after MAF .... not for the ask but to weaponize our cap instead of Holtby.   That said we still did so wow aren’t we lucky.   A third for Schmidt is a fleecing of epic proportions.    No LE isn’t going anywhere- maybe not even the minors unless TG is convinced someone can take his spot.  Like Sutter might as well play him, he’s worth maybe 2, so 4 lost cap for two more years.   It is what it is.    To dump LE, given the ask for MAF (who is still a fully functional vet and considered the best teammate anyone could hope for by virtually all the players and staff ever connected to him),  think two firsts and Rathbone or OJ or Demko.   That might get a deal done.   Does it seem worth it to you?   Anyone saying a second and even Podz is dreaming and smoking something I’d like to try. 
 

Edit:  at this point I’d be switching sides to full on JB bashing if he bought him out.  We don’t need 4 more years of wasted cap on this guy.   Just bury him, enjoy the cap savings for two years and maybe he will leave but doubt it. 

Sorry I haven't been reading the small print here(just skimming mostly)

 

But I'm of the opinion a contract like LE's has value to a guy like Melnyk. Hollowed-out(more AAV-hit than $ owed), thus enabling him to reach a false floor.

None of us knows precisely what it will take, but the result could be surprising. Still think if we take back contract(s) with REAL dollars, something could happen.

 

But that then begs the question..would the Aquas accept such a deal? Who wants major $-commitments in such an economic environment?!

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Sorry I haven't been reading the small print here(just skimming mostly)

 

But I'm of the opinion a contract like LE's has value to a guy like Melnyk. Hollowed-out(more AAV-hit than $ owed), thus enabling him to reach a false floor.

None of us knows precisely what it will take, but the result could be surprising. Still think if we take back contract(s) with REAL dollars, something could happen.

 

But that then begs the question..would the Aquas accept such a deal? Who wants major $-commitments in such an economic environment?!

I doubt the OTT fan base would be all that excited about adding LE to their lineup.  Unless they get something pretty nice in return.   It’s not going to be peanuts. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

it all depends on how much we need the 2-2.3 mil in cap space next season. At least it doesn't cost us an asset. 

We have enough cap space next year as long as we don’t do anything stupid like adding players now and trading Pearson to fit them in.  Or using up Sutters cap hit with a buyout.  We’ve already put up with him for four years - why add two more (four more total)?   If he can’t beat McEwen or whomever bury him and save some cap.   Otherwise just play him on the PK and the fourth line.   Not a fan of trying to get a little better now, when all of it will shed naturally and we could be in the cat bird seat in two years. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by IBatch

[JM_]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

We have enough cap space next year as long as we don’t do anything stupid like adding players now and trading Pearson to fit them in.  Or using up Sutters cap hit with a buyout. 

I'd be fine with adding RFAs or cost-controlled guys still on multi-year deals. But the chance of that is probably pretty low. Sutters and Loui's buyouts are pretty close to the same as well. Yes Loui's would extend over 4 years, but the last two are just 667k. 

[IBatch]

Just now, Robert Long said:

I'd be fine with adding RFAs or cost-controlled guys still on multi-year deals. But the chance of that is probably pretty low. Sutters and Loui's buyouts are pretty close to the same as well. Yes Loui's would extend over 4 years, but the last two are just 667k. 

If we didn’t have overages this year JV wouldn’t be an issue.   I’m simply not a fan of buyouts one bit.  We aren’t going to win a cup next year.   But we could win a cup in two or three years if we keep all our cap open.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

If we didn’t have overages this year JV wouldn’t be an issue.   I’m simply not a fan of buyouts one bit.  We aren’t going to win a cup next year.   But we could win a cup in two or three years if we keep all our cap open.  

For sure, I see where you are coming from. Thats why I'm suggesting a limited situation where you're bringing in a good, cost controlled player so the extra 667k in Loui's buyout means a lot less. 

 

I wouldn't buyout Loui prior to making a move like that though. But lets say Jim finds an RFA right side defence man... yeah then I'd be fine to fit that in by turfing Loui.