[proposal] Canucks and Red Wings can help each other out

[Patel Bure]

[proposal] Canucks and Red Wings can help each other out
 

Obviously, the Red Wings are in a position to help out many teams due to their cap space, but let’s keep this Canucks related.

 

Detroit wants:

 

• Prospects
• Weaponize cap space by taking on longer term contracts in order to build up their prospect base

 

Vancouver wants:
 

• Reduce cap space
• Reduce long term liabilities if possible (I.e. get rid of contracts that are longe than a year)
• Add player(s) via UFA or trade that can help them be more competitive right now
• Have enough freed up cap space beyond this season in order to re-sign Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko

 

 

Proposal #1:   Exchanging two year contracts for one year contracts:

 

To Detroit:  Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, + SWEETENER(s)

To Vancouver:  Helm, Glendenning, Filppula, Nemeth     

 

Total cap space out = $12.0 million

Total cap space in = $11.65 million

Savings = $0.35 million (+added salary from possible sweetener)

 

 

 

Proposal #2: The semi-realistic deal
 

To Detroit:  Eriksson, Ferland, sweetener (pick or prospect)

To Vancouver:  Helm, Glendenning, Filppula (all of the books at the end of the season).
 

Total cap space out = $9.5 million

Total cap space in = $8.65 million

Savings = 0.95 million (950K)

 

-Canucks reduce their long term liabilities beyond this season.

-Detroit gets a sweetener (what that sweetener would entail, I don’t know), but can also take a calculated risk in knowing that Ferland is likely done (I.e. will retire or be LTIR’d), while Eriksson could be moved after this season (only 2 million in real dollars would be owed), or could be coaxed to retire.

 

The question however, is what sweetener would Vancouver have to throw Detroit’s way in making this a fair deal?

 

Proposal #3:  The ultra aggressive (and likely unrealistic) long term liability reduction
 

To Detroit:  Eriksson, Ferland, Beagle, Roussel, Rathbone, 2021 1st

To Vancouver:  Helm, Glendenning, Filppula, Staal (all of the books at the end of the season).

 

Total cap space out = 15.5 million
Total cap space out = 14.35 million

 

Savings = 1.15 million

 

The question however, is what sweetener(s) would Vancouver have to throw Detroit’s way in making this a fair deal?

 

(side note - the Canucks can make other deals with other teams in independent deals to reduce short term cap space, but this isn’t what this proposal is about).

Canucks line-up in scenario #1:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Leivo

Ferland-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Sutter-Filppula

 

Helm 

 

Glendenning or Helm to the minors to clear cap space

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

Rafferty

 

Demko
Holtby

 

Scenario #2:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen 

Baertschi-Gaudette-MacEwen

Motte-Sutter-Filppula

 

Glendenning or Helm

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

 

 

Scenario #3:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen 

Baertschi-Gaudette-MacEwen

Motte-Sutter-Filppula

 

Glendenning or Helm

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

Staal

 

Demko
Holtby

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[logic]

lol wouldn’t even happen on nhl21

[AV.]

Any sweetener is going to be super heavy.

 

Consider that Marc Staal (1x5.75M) was dumped with a 2nd for future considerations.  We're asking them to take on multiple contracts with multiple years left over which is way heavier dump for Detroit to take on.  They're better off just rolling with their own guys and letting them expire or trading them for assets if they can.  We're obviously better off keeping our picks and making do with our situation.

[sonoman]

That might work if Glen Sather or Mike Milbury was the GM 

[Phil_314]

Looks like Christmas 2020 came early, and so did the Not-So-Secret Santa Crap Exchange.

[Patel Bure]

26 minutes ago, sonoman said:

That might work if Glen Sather or Mike Milbury was the GM 

 

27 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Any sweetener is going to be super heavy.

 

Consider that Marc Staal (1x5.75M) was dumped with a 2nd for future considerations.  We're asking them to take on multiple contracts with multiple years left over which is way heavier dump for Detroit to take on.  They're better off just rolling with their own guys and letting them expire or trading them for assets if they can.  We're obviously better off keeping our picks and making do with our situation.

 

12 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Looks like Christmas 2020 came early, and so did the Not-So-Secret Santa Crap Exchange.

I know where you guys are coming from, but like I prefaced.......it all depends on what the sweetener is:

 

For instance would Rathbone + 2021 1st balance out

 

Ferland + Beagle + Roussel + Eriksson for Helm + Glendenning + Filppula + Staal?

 

(Btw, I’m not saying that I would throw in those sweeteners.  Just providing context).

 

Obviously, there would be a point where Yzerman would have to consider the weight of the sweetener being added in.  The Wings won’t be competitive this coming season and likely the season after, and so those Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel contracts won’t hurt Detroit that much.

Edited October 19, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[AV.]

1 minute ago, DarkIndianRises said:

 

 

I know where you guys are coming from, but like I prefaced.......it all depends on what the sweetener is:

 

For instance would Rathbone + 2021 1st balance out

 

Ferland + Beagle + Roussel + Eriksson for Helm + Glendenning + Filppula + Staal?

 

(Btw, I’m not saying that I would throw in those sweeteners.  Just providing context).

Probably not lol, at least not for all those guys at once.  That's, at minimum, two more years of 9.5M in cap-space for Detroit to take on.  Way too hefty for just a 1st and prospect.

[Patel Bure]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Probably not lol, at least not for all those guys at once.  That's, at minimum, two more years of 9.5M in cap-space for Detroit to take on.  Way too hefty for just a 1st and prospect.

You’re probably right, but keep in mind that Ferland could go LTIR or retire.  It’s not 100% guaranteed but there’s a good shot.  Eriksson wouls only be owed 2 million in real dollars after this season and so he could conceivably retire as well.   It’s entirely possible that the Wings would only be stuck with Beagle and Roussel when all is said and done after this coming season.

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

You’re probably right, but keep in mind that Ferland could go LTIR or retire.  It’s not 100% guaranteed but there’s a good shot.  Eriksson wouls only be owed 2 million in real dollars after this season and so he could conceivably retire as well.   It’s entirely possible that the Wings would only be stuck with Beagle and Roussel when all is said and done after this coming season.

Under no circumstance will Ferland retire.  He can be go on LTIR but if he retires he walks away from all the money he’s owed for the remainder of his contract for no reason 

[mll]

10 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

You’re probably right, but keep in mind that Ferland could go LTIR or retire.  It’s not 100% guaranteed but there’s a good shot.  Eriksson wouls only be owed 2 million in real dollars after this season and so he could conceivably retire as well.   It’s entirely possible that the Wings would only be stuck with Beagle and Roussel when all is said and done after this coming season.

Detroit is rebuilding and are going to have plenty of players on ELC.  Having a player on LTIR is going to limit their ability to manoeuvre - it creates bonus overages and limits recall options.  It costs to move out LTIR contracts.  

[Lancaster]

Just now, mll said:

Detroit is rebuilding and are going to have plenty of players on ELC.  Having a player on LTIR is going to limit their ability to manoeuvre - it creates bonus overages and limits recall options.  It costs to move out LTIR contracts.  

The only way a LTIR contract will be a positive is if the team needs to reach the floor and/or has poor cashflow (assuming the payout is insured).  

[Coconuts]

The cost of such a move would be absolutely massive, but I can think of one immediate thing that probably kills such a deal. Ferland has a NMC for this upcoming season, though it drops down to a modified NTC next season. 

 

If his goal is to come back and play hockey, which it seems to be, why would he allow himself to be moved from a competitive team to a rebuilding one? Ferland has complete control over his destiny this season, and I don't see him being interested in being shipped off to Detroit after watching this team in the playoffs. 

 

Moving Eriksson is worth exploring though. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

we dont really need to drop salary this year. also almost all of the players you mentioned are roster players right now. they may not be fan favorites, but they served thier part in making the playoffs. i think our best option is to play the waiting game, a year is a long time. there will be teams looking to make a playoff push, there will be teams that have players that request trades, teams with major injuries etc..... this is when would be our best option to trade some salary for next year.

[BigTramFan]

4 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

You’re probably right, but keep in mind that Ferland could go LTIR or retire.  It’s not 100% guaranteed but there’s a good shot.  Eriksson wouls only be owed 2 million in real dollars after this season and so he could conceivably retire as well.   It’s entirely possible that the Wings would only be stuck with Beagle and Roussel when all is said and done after this coming season.

Didn't have anything further to add that others haven't mentioned...except Eriksson is owed $4m in the final year of his contract, not $2m.

[Patel Bure]

5 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Didn't have anything further to add that others haven't mentioned...except Eriksson is owed $4m in the final year of his contract, not $2m.

Isn’t Eriksson owed only 4-5 million right now?   

[86Viking]

I would offer LE to Detroit for 2021 2nd round pick and a choice of OJ or Virtanen and see what Yzerman comes back with as a counter proposal. 

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Isn’t Eriksson owed only 4-5 million right now?   

5m in salary over the next 2 years but its his 6m cap hit that is more of the issue. Still tradeable, think we should bite the bullet in this deal and then try to get some assets back in a deal with Tampa Bay like getting Cernak to solidify our D

[smithers joe]

doesn’t ferland have a nmc and the others m ntc? 

[VegasCanuck]

11 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal] Canucks and Red Wings can help each other out
 

Obviously, the Red Wings are in a position to help out many teams due to their cap space, but let’s keep this Canucks related.

 

Detroit wants:

 

• Prospects
• Weaponize cap space by taking on longer term contracts in order to build up their prospect base

 

Vancouver wants:
 

• Reduce cap space
• Reduce long term liabilities if possible (I.e. get rid of contracts that are longe than a year)
• Add player(s) via UFA or trade that can help them be more competitive right now
• Have enough freed up cap space beyond this season in order to re-sign Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko

 

Proposal #1: The semi-realistic deal
 

To Detroit:  Eriksson, Ferland, sweetener (pick or prospect)

To Vancouver:  Helm, Glendenning, Filppula (all of the books at the end of the season).
 

Total cap space out = $9.5 million

Total cap space in = $8.65 million

Savings = 0.95 million (950K)

 

-Canucks reduce their long term liabilities beyond this season.

-Detroit gets a sweetener (what that sweetener would entail, I don’t know), but can also take a calculated risk in knowing that Ferland is likely done (I.e. will retire or be LTIR’d), while Eriksson could be moved after this season (only 2 million in real dollars would be owed), or could be coaxed to retire.

 

The question however, is what sweetener would Vancouver have to throw Detroit’s way in making this a fair deal?

 

Proposal #2:  The ultra aggressive (and likely unrealistic) long term liability reduction
 

To Detroit:  Eriksson, Ferland, Beagle, Roussel, sweetener

To Vancouver:  Helm, Glendenning, Filppula, Staal (all of the books at the end of the season).

 

Total cap space out = 15.5 million
Total cap space out = 14.35 million

 

Savings = 1.15 million

 

The question however, is what sweetener(s) would Vancouver have to throw Detroit’s way in making this a fair deal?

 

(side note - the Canucks can make other deals with other teams in independent deals to reduce short term cap space, but this isn’t what this proposal is about).

Canucks line-up in scenario #1:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen

Roussel-Gaudette-MacEwen

Motte-Beagle-Filppula

 

Helm or Sutter

 

Glendenning or Helm to the minors to clear cap space

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

Rafferty

 

Demko
Holtby

 

Scenario #2:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen 

Baertschi-Gaudette-MacEwen

Motte-Sutter-Filppula

 

Glendenning or Helm

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

Staal

 

Demko
Holtby

 

 

 

 

Number of things with this post, but just going to comment on the fact that there is zero reason for us to trade Ferland.

 

His cap hit does not hurt us if he stays on LTIR, and even if he comes off, I guarantee that we'll have someone else going on. It happens every year, fans freak out about cap space and we ALWAYS have enough LTIR to cover.

 

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

Number of things with this post, but just going to comment on the fact that there is zero reason for us to trade Ferland.

 

His cap hit does not hurt us if he stays on LTIR, and even if he comes off, I guarantee that we'll have someone else going on. It happens every year, fans freak out about cap space and we ALWAYS have enough LTIR to cover.

 

Fair enough,

 

Take Ferland out of the equation then and keep him.

 

To Detroit:  Our two year “bad contract” deals:  Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel.  ++plus sweetener 

To Vancouver:  Bad one year contracts:  Staal, Helm, and one of Glendenning or Fippula.  
 

What sweeter(s) would make this worthwhile from Detroit’s standpoint by being on the books for two years of bad contracts instead of one? Because let’s face it - the wings won’t be a competitive team this coming season or the season after.