[Signing] Flames sign Joakim Nordstrom

[AV.]

3 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

If GMJB can't get louie to waive what makes anyone think lucic will and would be sought after by Seattle?

 

Lucic also has another year on his contract.

 

Did vgk take any over paid useless forwards?

Just because Jim Benning is unable to do something doesn't mean that other GMs are unable to as well.

 

David Clarkson, Jason Garrison, Mikhail Grabovski, Clayton Stoner, and even Marc-Andre Fleury were all "dead" cap that got moved.  If you're willing to bite the bullet on throwing in a 1st, good prospects, or multiple picks, something can be arranged.

[The Lock]

8 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Just because Jim Benning is unable to do something doesn't mean that other GMs are unable to as well.

 

David Clarkson, Jason Garrison, Mikhail Grabovski, Clayton Stoner, and even Marc-Andre Fleury were all "dead" cap that got moved.  If you're willing to bite the bullet on throwing in a 1st, good prospects, or multiple picks, something can be arranged.

First of all, Fleury was literally featured in the Vegas expansion draft as one of the sought after players they wanted. He even showed up at the expansion draft to be featured. That's literally the opposite of "dead cap" when they clearly wanted the player.

 

Second, you can name off of as many "dead caps" as you want but the most common thing they all have is they are on the LTIR. Eriksson's not in this category so if you're trying to compare something like Eriksson so Clarkson, it's not even close since Clarkson doesn't count against the cap once he's on LTIR whereas Eriksson's not exactly injured.

 

If anything Ferland's contract would be easier to move since he'll likely be on LTIR. That would be a more fair comparison but it doesn't really matter if he's moved or not for us if he's not even on our caphit.

 

You have to compare the right contracts dude and not just throw random contracts on the table.

[AV.]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

First of all, Fleury was literally featured in the Vegas expansion draft as one of the sought after players they wanted. He even showed up at the expansion draft to be featured. That's literally the opposite of "dead cap" when they clearly wanted the player.

 

Second, you can name off of as many "dead caps" as you want but the most common thing they all have is they are on the LTIR. Eriksson's not in this category so if you're trying to compare something like Eriksson so Clarkson, it's not even close since Clarkson doesn't count against the cap once he's on LTIR whereas Eriksson's not exactly injured.

 

If anything Ferland's contract would be easier to move since he'll likely be on LTIR. That would be a more fair comparison but it doesn't really matter if he's moved or not for us if he's not even on our caphit.

 

You have to compare the right contracts dude and not just throw random contracts on the table.

Lol.  Did it feel good to write an essay and miss the point?

 

My original point is that getting Giordano/Lucic to move is not impossible if you're willing to bite the price of the sweetener it will take, be it high picks/good prospects.

[The Lock]

8 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Lol.  Did it feel good to write an essay and miss the point?

 

My original point is that getting Giordano/Lucic to move is not impossible if you're willing to bite the price of the sweetener it will take, be it high picks/good prospects.

Wasn't really an essay but fair then. lol

 

Still doesn't really compare with LTIR contracts like Clarkson though. I think your choice of comparisons could use a bit of work still.

Edited October 20, 2020 by The Lock

[GhostsOf1994]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Just because Jim Benning is unable to do something doesn't mean that other GMs are unable to as well.

 

David Clarkson, Jason Garrison, Mikhail Grabovski, Clayton Stoner, and even Marc-Andre Fleury were all "dead" cap that got moved.  If you're willing to bite the bullet on throwing in a 1st, good prospects, or multiple picks, something can be arranged.

Maf stood on his head iirc while Murray struggled on the way to the 2nd cup?

 

Expansion draft of fleury to VGK was a few things.

Murray was "ready"

Murray needed a new contract.

MAF is an elite goalie, career V.S. career he's better than Luongo, I said it.

VGK needed an elite popular goalie, that's MAF.

 

Garrison played out his contract on a excellent lightning squad?

Traded for a 2nd round pick ?

How's that a cap dump?

 

Clarkson was a swap of Hortons contract? That was insurance fan-dangling.

Something like Clarkson was never put on LTIR so that cap counted vs horton being LTIR gave toronto that money as a cushion, I think.

 

Grabovksi was bought out by the laffs, after the lock out 12/13. After a stint in the KHL.

Retired after unable to pass a physical.

 

 

 

Stoner from wikipedia

 

On July 1, 2014, Stoner signed as a free agent with the Anaheim Ducks on a four-year, $13 million contract.^[3]

Approaching the final year of his contract, Stoner was selected by the Vegas Golden Knights at the 2017 NHL Expansion Draft on June 21, 2017. He was chosen with the incentive of the Ducks trading fellow defenceman Shea Theodore to the Golden Knights.^[4] After attending the Golden Knights inaugural training camp, Stoner suffered a return of his abdomen injury that limited him to just 14 games in the previous season. Approaching the 2017–18 season, Stoner was ruled out indefinitely and placed on the injured reserve list on October 3, 2017.^[5]

 

 

Stoner was not a complete cap dump, he was on his way but again, injuries after the trade ended his career.

 

Stoner made 3.250 per year, that also helped vgk with cap. 

 

If i understand, theodore was traded to protect fowler, lindholm, montour, vatanen, manson, despres?, Larsson? Not sure who all needed protection

 

perry, getzlaf, kesler, cogliano and bieksa all had NMC. Had to be protected.

 

 

 

Eriksson has nmc, has blocked trades before, has 2 years left, contributes very little(things)

 

Doesn't score, hit, fight, crash, dive to block shots etc

 

Only hope for the Canucks is Mutual termination and Louie won't be doing that.

 

Trades going to cost a ton in assets unless cap is coming back, don't want.

 

Buy out is pretty useless as this first year would be 5+m hit anyways.

 

Retire?

And never get another nhl paycheck?

 

Think louie will be around a while longer.

 

[theo5789]

15 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Lol.  Did it feel good to write an essay and miss the point?

 

My original point is that getting Giordano/Lucic to move is not impossible if you're willing to bite the price of the sweetener it will take, be it high picks/good prospects.

No amount of sweetener can get Lucic to waive his NMC if he doesn't want to. Giordano maybe, but he isn't getting any younger, so he will need to prove that he's not declining rapidly or the price to offload him just gets higher especially in the flat cap world. Price that was being asked to move MAF was a 1st, 2nd and retention. It's going to cost more this time around to get Seattle to save you and especially so if there's a decent piece that would be exposed otherwise.

[AV.]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Wasn't really an essay but fair then. lol

 

Still doesn't really compare with LTIR contracts like Clarkson though. I think your choice of comparisons could use a bit of work still.

Giordano to Seattle wouldn't be much different than Garrison moving to VGK was (beyond the obvious gap in quality between the two players).  

 

I suppose Lucic is an outlier in comparison to the other contracts you named that were dumped on VGK.  Then again, having bottom-six players make multiple millions on multi-year contracts, I'm told, is not a bad thing because of all the "character" and "leadership" they provide.

[AV.]

4 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

No amount of sweetener can get Lucic to waive his NMC if he doesn't want to. Giordano maybe, but he isn't getting any younger, so he will need to prove that he's not declining rapidly or the price to offload him just gets higher especially in the flat cap world. Price that was being asked to move MAF was a 1st, 2nd and retention. It's going to cost more this time around to get Seattle to save you and especially so if there's a decent piece that would be exposed otherwise.

I am not employed by Seattle but if I were to speculate, I would say that Seattle isn't going to pass up on adding an additional prospect/pick (if they require it) to select a former Norris winner, no matter how old or how washed he is.  This is especially true since he has just the 1 year remaining.

[aGENT]

57 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Second, you can name off of as many "dead caps" as you want but the most common thing they all have is they are on the LTIR. Eriksson's not in this category so if you're trying to compare something like Eriksson so Clarkson, it's not even close since Clarkson doesn't count against the cap once he's on LTIR whereas Eriksson's not exactly injured.

So what you're really saying is...

 

We Canuck fans should start a go fund me to hire Tonya Harding...

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

So what you're really saying is...

 

We Canuck fans should start a go fund me to hire Tonya Harding...

Does she come with a bat and a ice fishing saw?

 

(wow this is getting dark fast)

[sassbs]

Nordstrom is ok.  I’m a guy so what do I care, but my wife loves that place.  Drags me along shopping there all the time.  
 

anyone? Anyone? No? I’m here all night folks .

 

ok , I’ll just see myself out....

[theo5789]

49 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

I am not employed by Seattle but if I were to speculate, I would say that Seattle isn't going to pass up on adding an additional prospect/pick (if they require it) to select a former Norris winner, no matter how old or how washed he is.  This is especially true since he has just the 1 year remaining.

What benefit is there to adding a former Norris winner if he's no longer that quality? So they can advertise some gimmick that they have a former Norris winner? Nothing is going to take away that he's going to be 38 next year. There's only so much value left even if he's an average top 4 dman at that point. Pittsburgh had to pay a 2nd round pick to ensure they took MAF and he was still a top goaltender who was only 33 I believe at the time. And that's pre-covid with no flat cap. So while it's possible that Seattle could take Giordano, it will come at a high price, which implies cap/structural problems if they need to unload him and are willing to pay the steep price.

 

For reference, Garrison was moved for Gusev, 2nd and 4th. Gabrovski was moved with the 15th overall pick. Stoner cost them Shea Theodore. To move Clarkson, CBJ gave up a 1st, 2nd and William Karlsson.

 

Need I remind you, that was the cost pre-covid. We have seen what the market is like this off-season. If I was employed by Seattle, I would make sure Calgary pays well for us to take on a 38 year old that comes with a near 7 million dollar burden under a flat cap. If Giordano has average/poor year, it's only going to hurt them more.

[AV.]

10 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

What benefit is there to adding a former Norris winner if he's no longer that quality? So they can advertise some gimmick that they have a former Norris winner? Nothing is going to take away that he's going to be 38 next year. There's only so much value left even if he's an average top 4 dman at that point. Pittsburgh had to pay a 2nd round pick to ensure they took MAF and he was still a top goaltender who was only 33 I believe at the time. And that's pre-covid with no flat cap. So while it's possible that Seattle could take Giordano, it will come at a high price, which implies cap/structural problems if they need to unload him and are willing to pay the steep price.

 

For reference, Garrison was moved for Gusev, 2nd and 4th. Gabrovski was moved with the 15th overall pick. Stoner cost them Shea Theodore. To move Clarkson, CBJ gave up a 1st, 2nd and William Karlsson.

 

Need I remind you, that was the cost pre-covid. We have seen what the market is like this off-season. If I was employed by Seattle, I would make sure Calgary pays well for us to take on a 38 year old that comes with a near 7 million dollar burden under a flat cap. If Giordano has average/poor year, it's only going to hurt them more.

Giordano isn't going to be a dump lol.  Also, I'm not sure what expectations you think Seattle has where Giordano having a poor year will be seen as detrimental for them lolol.

 

Funny guy you are.

[amplified0ne]

3 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

I didn't say they would be a winning team.  I said they would be a team without cap or structural problems.

 

The truth is the Flames aren't winning anything with bums like Gaudreau and Monahan at the helm.

ok good 

[oldnews]

28 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

What benefit is there to adding a former Norris winner if he's no longer that quality? So they can advertise some gimmick that they have a former Norris winner? Nothing is going to take away that he's going to be 38 next year. There's only so much value left even if he's an average top 4 dman at that point. Pittsburgh had to pay a 2nd round pick to ensure they took MAF and he was still a top goaltender who was only 33 I believe at the time. And that's pre-covid with no flat cap. So while it's possible that Seattle could take Giordano, it will come at a high price, which implies cap/structural problems if they need to unload him and are willing to pay the steep price.

 

For reference, Garrison was moved for Gusev, 2nd and 4th. Gabrovski was moved with the 15th overall pick. Stoner cost them Shea Theodore. To move Clarkson, CBJ gave up a 1st, 2nd and William Karlsson.

 

Need I remind you, that was the cost pre-covid. We have seen what the market is like this off-season. If I was employed by Seattle, I would make sure Calgary pays well for us to take on a 38 year old that comes with a near 7 million dollar burden under a flat cap. If Giordano has average/poor year, it's only going to hurt them more.

One thing that would take away from him being 38 - is him being Mark Giordano.

 

I dunno - seems like those points might apply to someone else, but don't really fit a discussion of Giordano.  That Norris isn't a gimmick from years gone by - he won that last year - and probably 'should have' had a lot more Norris consideration in previous years.

 

He played 24 minutes this year - that's more than his 14 year career average.

 

Scored 31 points, played all the hard minutes he usually does.

Was a principal penalty killer - as always.

 

And you are talking about 1 year of term remaining when Seattle picks it's e.d. players....none of those players - Garrison, Grabovski, Stoner, Clarkson...are anywhere near comparables to Giordano.   Some guys just age well - work hard - possess the kind of intelligence that is 'timeless'....I think he's one of those - and I also think that if he plays with Tanev, he's likely to benefit from a high end, mobile shutdown partner, highly intelligent, great first pass, excellent puck retrieval.....I won't be surprised if Giordano actually has a better season next year than  this...

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, amplified0ne said:

Who is scoring goals for them though?  And is Monahan and top line centre is still the question.  The playoffs have proven those two issues and to me they havent addressed them which is fine by me.

5 x 20 goal/82 game scorers for them this year - and Backlund is also typically in that range - had a 16 goal (19 per 82 games) season this year - so a 6th guy right on the cusp of 20 goals....

[Patel Bure]

8 hours ago, oldnews said:

good penalty killer and hard minutes bottom six.

 

Jankowski, Reider, Frolik out....they probably need a player or two like this...

Agreed.  It’s a good singing by the Flames.   I like Nordstrom.

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

So what you're really saying is...

 

We Canuck fans should start a go fund me to hire Tonya Harding...

Not Tonya Harding.  Jeff Gillooly!

[theo5789]

56 minutes ago, oldnews said:

One thing that would take away from him being 38 - is him being Mark Giordano.

 

I dunno - seems like those points might apply to someone else, but don't really fit a discussion of Giordano.  That Norris isn't a gimmick from years gone by - he won that last year - and probably 'should have' had a lot more Norris consideration in previous years.

 

He played 24 minutes this year - that's more than his 14 year career average.

 

Scored 31 points, played all the hard minutes he usually does.

Was a principal penalty killer - as always.

 

And you are talking about 1 year of term remaining when Seattle picks it's e.d. players....none of those players - Garrison, Grabovski, Stoner, Clarkson...are anywhere near comparables to Giordano.   Some guys just age well - work hard - possess the kind of intelligence that is 'timeless'....I think he's one of those - and I also think that if he plays with Tanev, he's likely to benefit from a high end, mobile shutdown partner, highly intelligent, great first pass, excellent puck retrieval.....I won't be surprised if Giordano actually has a better season next year than  this...

I guess the question is does Seattle simply want a player that can help them for one year and who knows how many more years left after? They could go with a younger option who may not be as good now, but holds more value in the future whether through development or in a trade.

 

I brought those names up because that poster brought them up as "dead cap" being moved and I was simply pointing out the cost to move that dead cap. I think this situation would be more like Fleury who Pittsburgh wanted to guarantee that they took him despite being a good goaltender for cap reasons. Only now the cap issues are magnified with the flat cap. If Calgary wants to relieve cap by hoping Giordano gets taken, then it's going to cost them significant assets to do so and lose a decent, but no longer Norris calibre dman. Seattle isn't doing them any favours.

 

If Calgary does pay to move him, it also shows that they are indeed having cap/structural issues that need to be resolved and they are willing to pay to make it happen. Something that the poster I responded to also claims that they have no issue of either through slick management.

[Elias Pettersson]

Calgary would need to expose one of Sam Bennett or Andrew Mangiapane. I’m pretty sure Seattle takes one of them before they take Giordano, unless Calgary adds a nice sweetener.