Canucks All-time First 2 Fantasy lines

[Patel Bure]

22 hours ago, deus.ex.makina said:

really ? no love for Jeff Brown ? 

Kirk McLean’s ex wife.

[filthycanuck]

20 hours ago, BabychStache said:

Great observation.

 

Although I’d challenge that Malhotra centering that line was superior. 

Nope, Malhotra never centred that line in the playoffs. Malhotra had that eye injury and only came back in the Finals (Game 3? till the end) and he was relagated to the 4th line. No way in hell Vigneult was touching the Torres, Lapierre Hansen line

[IBatch]

If your going for clutch and playoff performance, you need guys like Linden, Ronning, Courtnall etc on your team.    Some players elevate come post season,  some stay about the same, and some regress or can’t put up similar points in the post season.   If you look at all-time playoffs PGP (points per game played),  the Sedins are 8th and 11th all-time, and big minus players too, including our run to the final (-11ish)....  Linden is the first guy you’d want off the board in this case Captain Clutch for sure.  Bure, Gradin, Ronning, Courtnall, Linden round our your top five in this category not including Miller and EP...

 

And like Biestra already pointed out Courtnall was on the third line in 94.

 

Its also worth noting Linden scored considerably more often in the playoffs then in the regular season...go all the way to around 54 to find him on the all-time list PGP in the regular season (of course some guys muddy the list with just a handful of games)...he’s are all-time leader in virtually every category come the post season though.    Right after him on the PGP is Smyl (post season)...and all the top 7 are plus players.   The Sedins were great regular season players and ok playoff performers but not really what I’d create if I was doing a top six for the post-season.  
 

The best part about right now is Miller,EP, QHs and Horvat are also on this list.  The WCE era was cursed come the second season...Bertuzzi is right below Wellwood at 19, with two more games played.  Horvat has already played one game less then Bertuzzi, and 10th on the list - just saying how lucky we have it now.   Great things on the horizon as in early 90’s great.  A better playoff then regular season team by the looks of things so far - just like when Linden teams pretty much gave us a bye to the second round.

 

One more playoffs like last year and I’d consider any of the new core, QHs set a record that stood since 94...on that Brown and Lumme deserve the honours for top D playoff performers.   After that it gets much harder.   Bieksa is the only plus player of Salo, Jovo, Ohlund and Edler - and is just ahead of Salo in PGP and goals...and he did elevate his play as well playing on our top line in 2011 so I’d go with him next.   

 

Bure is obvious.   As is McLean.   Anyone who posts stats like he did in 94 deserves the top spot, and did it standing up.  Another guy who elevated his play.  
 

Yes it seems obvious that Sedin Sedin Naslund and Bertuzzi should be in the top six but it’s not really that simple.    Their playoff performances were often underwhelming, especially compared to regular season successes.   Tough to leave them off but from what I’ve seen this might work the best.

Courtnall Linden Bure

Tanti  Ronning  Smyl

 

Lumme   Brown

Edler Bieksa 

 

On Ronning.   Scored 24 goals ... ... he was a clutch second C for us, arguably the best we’ve ever had,  without question when the chips were down although Horvat might have something to say about that after his 10 goal performance this year.    I expect this list would look a lot different five years from now.   Too early for Miller and Co ...

[IBatch]

On 10/23/2020 at 11:52 PM, khay said:

Agree. Also, with Bure's hands and shot, he would be able to finish a lot of the chances that Burrows or even Daniel weren't able to finish. 

 

These things are fun to think about.

Bure in this era could score 70 a year.   Easy.  

[Kevin Biestra]

28 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Its also worth noting Linden scored considerably more often in the playoffs then in the regular season...go all the way to around 54 to find him on the all-time list PGP in the regular season (of course some guys muddy the list with just a handful of games)...he’s are all-time leader in virtually every category come the post season though.    Right after him on the PGP is Smyl (post season)...and all the top 7 are plus players.   The Sedins were great regular season players and ok playoff performers but not really what I’d create if I was doing a top six for the post-season. 

 

Smyl was basically a point per game for his playoff career until 1989 when he was on the 18th hole of his career and was a pure role player, and went 0 for 7 and tanked his career average.  But even with that, he is still right up at the top.

 

That 1989 team might be on the all time NHL list for most leadership in one lineup.  Smyl, Linden, Butcher, Lidster, Reinhart, Bridgman, Snepsts.  That's not even mentioning Pederson, Adams, Benning, Bozek, Tanti, Skriko, Rich Sutter...  Just right there that's 14 guys you can picture with an A or a C on their jersey.

 

I don't think I'd be able to turn down Reinhart for a spot in that hypothetical all time lineup though, especially when it comes to playoffs.  He was great in his one playoff year with the Canucks and he was an absolute destroyer in Calgary, year after year.  17 points in 11 games in 1984.  He was looking at the Conn Smythe the way things were going if they had made it out of round 2.  He had five separate playoff years in Calgary, each of which would still be talked about today if it had happened in Vancouver.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Smyl was basically a point per game for his playoff career until 1989 when he was on the 18th hole of his career and was a pure role player, and went 0 for 7 and tanked his career average.  But even with that, he is still right up at the top.

 

That 1989 team might be on the all time NHL list for most leadership in one lineup.  Smyl, Linden, Butcher, Lidster, Reinhart, Bridgman, Snepsts.  That's not even mentioning Pederson, Adams, Benning, Bozek, Tanti, Skriko, Rich Sutter...  Just right there that's 14 guys you can picture with an A or a C on their jersey.

 

I don't think I'd be able to turn down Reinhart for a spot in that hypothetical all time lineup though, especially when it comes to playoffs.  He was great in his one playoff year with the Canucks and he was an absolute destroyer in Calgary, year after year.  17 points in 11 games in 1984.  He was looking at the Conn Smythe the way things were going if they had made it out of round 2.  He had five separate playoff years in Calgary, each of which would still be talked about today if it had happened in Vancouver.

I actually wrote Reinhart down and then eventually changed it to Edler, simply based on games played.   He was my first choice.   And yes that 1989 team might have gone places if Otto didn’t kick it in.   After us they won a cup and didn’t have nearly the hardships along the way either.   Seems like a lot of cup champs primed themselves against Vancouver over the years ... Detroit and COL later too.    I’m hopeful that we’ve gone full circle with the current team as in Horvat’s teams, like Lindens teams, is pretty much and automatic bye to the second round.   If JB can re-work the D which for sure it looks like he’s doing at the moment letting Tanev and Stecher walk and bringing in Schmidt, and do to the back-end what he’s done to the forward group then for sure it’s going to happen.    Add to that EP, QHs, Horvat and Miller are already on a path of success that match those teams come playoff time.   I’m not that concerned about regular season accolades- it’s what happens the second season that really matters.   So far aces. 
 

Edit:  On Smyl....what a warrior.   Don’t make them like they used too, well as least as often anyways. 
 

Edit:  Also - that 1989 Calgary team was loaded from top to bottom.   The fact we stood up to them hammer and tong right to OT in game 7 and were just as good speaks volumes for the quality of players we had.   Have a book with the top 25 teams all-time and  89 Calgary just missed the top ten.   We vindicated ourselves in 94,  CAL was still a huge contender coming out of the west...and as an aside the NYR 94 team also made the book...but a long way past the 89 CAL team did.   Calgary did a masterful job of creating a team that could almost match the EDM dynasty, and when they slipped they were right there to take their spot.   And the players themselves (Otto admits now that shouldn’t have counted) know how lucky they were to get past us. 
 

Edit:  One final word.  Vernon should be in the HHOF.   For newbies what he did for Calgary in OT was like what Demko did to Vegas in game six this year.   Was absolutely brilliant. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by IBatch

[Patel Bure]

My final team - No Bure or Luongo.  :-(.   Happy to defend my position if people are interested.

Sedin-Sedin-Bertuzzi

Naslund-Pettersson-Mogilny

Miller-Horvat-Linden

Burrows-Kesler-Smyl
 

Bure
 

Edler-Reinhart

Hughes-Bieksa

Ohlund-Salo

 

Jovanovski

 

Markstrom 

McLean

Edited October 25, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[DownUndaCanuck]

Pretty easy in my books;

 

Sedin - Sedin - Bure

Naslund - Pettersson - Bertuzzi

 

Bure may play more of a speed game but I'm sure his shot plus the peak Sedins would rain in the goals.

 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

My final team - No Bure or Luongo.  :-(.   Happy to defend my position if people are interested.

Sedin-Sedin-Bertuzzi

Naslund-Pettersson-Mogilny

Miller-Horvat-Linden

Burrows-Kesler-Smyl
 

Bure
 

Edler-Reinhart

Hughes-Bieksa

Ohlund-Salo

 

Jovanovski

 

Markstrom 

McLean

Why would you leave Bure out?  Is this just a happy beer insued ha ha - because I get that.  Bure would do crazy good in today’s game - played most of his career in the dead puck era and it didn’t matter.   Get rid of the red line,  clutching and grabbing and watch him score almost every game.   He’d dominate.  One of my favourite clips of his is going up in to a penalty shot, you could see the ref ask him where he was going to shoot and what he said “five hole”, then skate in and make it look as easy as putting your coat on to go outside.     Someone on the CDC posted all his Canucks goals once...it’s a very long video.  Nobody before or after him came close to what he could do.  And the post season didn’t take any shine off either.    Special player.   And why Miller?  We have better left wingers in the system all-time, Tanti and Courtnall.  And Bertuzzi  wasn’t that good come post season either ... Wellwood played as many games almost and had a better PGP.   So now I’m just picking on you.    I think we need to give the new crew a few post seasons before we pass on some all time greats.    Reinhart was a left shot D as well so that doesn’t follow the format.     Back to a Bure ... shame on you!   He’s the best pure goal scorer in our history and one of the best all-time.   Naslund, Bertuzzi and the Sedins were all minus playoff players, same with Jovo, Ohlund, Salo and Edler....so it cant be defense (think Bure was plus 10)....

[Kevin Biestra]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Edit:  One final word.  Vernon should be in the HHOF.   For newbies what he did for Calgary in OT was like what Demko did to Vegas in game six this year.   Was absolutely brilliant. 

 

Yes, for a lot of years I've been banging the drum for Vernon, Tom Barrasso and Doug Wilson.  At least they finally listen to me and induced Doug Wilson this year.

[Patel Bure]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Pretty easy in my books;

 

Sedin - Sedin - Bure

Naslund - Pettersson - Bertuzzi

 

Bure may play more of a speed game but I'm sure his shot plus the peak Sedins would rain in the goals.

 

Bure with the twins would be a clash of styles.  The twins play a cycle game whereas Bure scores off the rush.  
 

Pettersson with the WCE would likely be a good fit however.   
 

People (me included) mention that Bertuzzi would be a good fit with the the twins due to his size, toughness, skill, and cycle game, but that may not actually be the case.   Keep in mind that Burrows has sandpaper to his game, but it was his smarts and defensive savviness, along with his skill and sandpaper, that made Burrows an excellent fit.  
 

I might actually be inclined to throw out these lines:

 

Sedin-Sedin-Linden

Miller-Pettersson-Bure

Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi

Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny

 

Smyl

 

Edler-Brown

Hughes-Bieksa

Ohlund-Salo 

 

Jovanovski

 

Markstrom

McLean

-Linden brings the defensive consciousness and intelligence to complement the twins (along with the sandpaper and skill).

 

-Bertuzzi and Naslund get an excellent two way center that plays better in the clutch which could also help Nazzy and Bert here (two guys that weren’t always at their best when it mattered most).  Kesler’s lack of ability to utilize his linemates might be a bit of an issue, but I doubt it.

 

-Miller provides the necessary sandpaper and defensive conscious to play alongside Pettersson (who is good defensively himself) and Bure.  Pettersson has the playmaking Ability and speed needed to play with Bure.

 

Horvat would continue to be the bull on his line while Mogilny could be both the sniper and playmaker.  Gelinas is better offensicy than Burrows as a LW’er and also brings a little sandpaper and skill as well, but Burrows can play both sides and so I’ll give Burrows the nod over Gelinas.

 

You would roll these four lines under the assumption that the Canucks wouldn’t need typical “matchups” lines and could just go out there and demolish opponents with equally balanced lines.

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Why would you leave Bure out?  Is this just a happy beer insued ha ha - because I get that.  Bure would do crazy good in today’s game - played most of his career in the dead puck era and it didn’t matter.   Get rid of the red line,  clutching and grabbing and watch him score almost every game.   He’d dominate.  One of my favourite clips of his is going up in to a penalty shot, you could see the ref ask him where he was going to shoot and what he said “five hole”, then skate in and make it look as easy as putting your coat on to go outside.     Someone on the CDC posted all his Canucks goals once...it’s a very long video.  Nobody before or after him came close to what he could do.  And the post season didn’t take any shine off either.    Special player.   And why Miller?  We have better left wingers in the system all-time, Tanti and Courtnall.  And Bertuzzi  wasn’t that good come post season either ... Wellwood played as many games almost and had a better PGP.   So now I’m just picking on you.    I think we need to give the new crew a few post seasons before we pass on some all time greats.    Reinhart was a left shot D as well so that doesn’t follow the format.     Back to a Bure ... shame on you!   He’s the best pure goal scorer in our history and one of the best all-time.   Naslund, Bertuzzi and the Sedins were all minus playoff players, same with Jovo, Ohlund, Salo and Edler....so it cant be defense (think Bure was plus 10)....

I added him back in in my most recent lines.  :-p. (See above).

 

My line of thinking from above is that 

 

1) I created the perfect bottom 6 from a Canucks standpoint.

2) Bure would be a bad fit with the twins (twins = cycle, Bure = score off the rush)

3) Mogilny would be a better fit than Bure on a hypothetical Naslund-Pettersson line since Mogilny is better defensively and is also a better playmaker (which would suit Naslund’s game a lot better).  
 

However, I realized the absurdity of leaving out Bure, along with the unnecessary over commitment to having two match up lines no matter how good.   For example - you could always throw out Miller-Kesler-Linden on line if you needed to shut down during the game (or Horvat instead of Kesler), but given the Canucks’ talent level, you would probably just be better off throwing out 4 balanced lines for the most part.

 

Sedin-Sedin-Linden 

Miller-Pettersson-Bure

Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi

Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny 

 

Smyl

 

Linden over Bertuzzi on the twins line because Linden is much better defensively (which the twins need help with), while also possessing a much higher hockey IQ.  Linden’s skill and sandpaper may not be as high as Bertuzzi’s, but it’s good enough to complement the twins.  
 

I didn’t know that about Reinhart.   Thought he was an RD.   I’ll add Jeff Brown here instead (we’ll tell him to keep it in his pants this time around ;-)).  
 

Was Tanti really a LW’er?  I thought he was RW?  You’ll have to excuse my ignorance here as my hockey memories before 1989 are quite fuzzy.    
 

Geoff Courtnal was ok for me, but I really liked Miller’s grit, defensive play, and playmaking ability.   People can call it recency bias, but I’d definitely pick Miller over Courtnal here.  

 

You make an excellent point about Bure (ie him being a consistent clutch player while Naslund, Bertuzzi, and the twins.....not so much).   Hence me adding him back in.

 

Linden and Kesler were clutch players and so I’d leave it up to them to bring out the best in the twins and the WCE.

 

Sedin-Sedin-Linden

Miller-Pettersson-Bure

Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi 

Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny

 

Smyl 

 

Edler-Brown

Hughes-Bieksa

Ohlund-Salo 

 

Jovanovski

 

Markstrom

McLean

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yes, for a lot of years I've been banging the drum for Vernon, Tom Barrasso and Doug Wilson.  At least they finally listen to me and induced Doug Wilson this year.

Yep I’ve noticed this too - Zubov also finally got his due as well.   Toiled in the dead puck era consistently putting up 50 ish plus points,  Dallas cup team often saying they’d never win a cup without him... and after the new rules came in scored like he used to with over 70 points just before retiring. 
 

As far as Vernon goes.   Won multiple cups as a starter, two different teams,  and with all due respect to any goalie who’s padded their stats with SO wins those should all be tied.  Talking to you Lunqvist, Luongo and MAF.   

Edited October 25, 2020 by IBatch

[TheRocket18]

sedins n burr

wce

pavel and whomever.

 

[189lb enforcers?]

I wouldn’t have the Sedins.

I’d want to win, so... 

Linden EP

Bure Almo Bert Naslund 

Pretty simple. 

[kloubek]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Bure in this era could score 70 a year.   Easy.  

You think? Don't get me wrong- Bure was simply amazing. But that was an era of hockey where players in general were slower, smaller, and not as skilled. I believe we are seeing the most talented hockey ever right now, and I believe even an above average player today would have been a star 30 years ago.

 

So again, Bure was awesome. But then you look at McDavid now and think, wellllllll..... he's quite a bit better.

Edited October 26, 2020 by kloubek

[Patel Bure]

I’m still waiting for some smug prick to list Nate Schmidt as one of his dmen.  :-p

 

Perhaps I can be the first?

 

Miller-Pettersson-Bure

Sedin-Sedin-Linden

Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi 

Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny

 

Smyl

 

Edler-Schmidt 

Hughes-Bieksa 

Ohlund-Salo 

 

Jovanovski

 

Markstrom

McLean

[J.I.A.H.N]

Forwards

 

Mogilny - Pettersson - Bure..................................Pure skill........I would put this line up against any line

 

Naslund - Hank - Bertuzzi....................................Imagine an upgrade on Morrison

 

Dank -  Sundin - Linden.......................................not a bad third line

 

Kesler - Messier - Smyl..................................What a pain in the arse to play against

 

13th forward without a doubt................................Burrows.............he could play on any line

 

HM.........Tony Tanti, Thomas Gradin

 

Defense

 

Paul Reinhart  - Quinn Hughes

 

Mattais Ohlund - Jeff Brown

 

Christian Ehrhoff - Chris Tanev

 

7th defenseman................Jyrki Lumme

 

HM....................................Harold Snepts and Alex Edler

 

Goalies

 

Starter........................Roberto Luongo

Backup.......................Kirk McLean

 

HM..............................Richard Brodeur

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by janisahockeynut

[Kevin Biestra]

23 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Forwards

 

Mogilny - Pettersson - Bure..................................Pure skill........I would put this line up against any line

 

Naslund - Hank - Bertuzzi....................................Imagine an upgrade on Morrison

 

Dank -  Sundin - Linden.......................................not a bad third line

 

Kesler - Messier - Smyl..................................What a pain in the arse to play against

 

I like most of your lineup but kind of raised an eyebrow at Canucks era Sundin.  Was he really that impactful as a Canuck?

 

But then I looked down one line and...oooooh boy...  I don't know if there has ever been an easier Canuck to play against than Mark Messier when he was here.  The guy went Sunday skating more often than not.  Still had enough skill to halfass his way to 50 points.  But if you're looking for the Messier that was a pain in the arse to play against, you're looking for the Edmonton or New York versions.

[J.I.A.H.N]

45 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I like most of your lineup but kind of raised an eyebrow at Canucks era Sundin.  Was he really that impactful as a Canuck?

 

But then I looked down one line and...oooooh boy...  I don't know if there has ever been an easier Canuck to play against than Mark Messier when he was here.  The guy went Sunday skating more often than not.  Still had enough skill to halfass his way to 50 points.  But if you're looking for the Messier that was a pain in the arse to play against, you're looking for the Edmonton or New York versions.

Yes, I do agree with you, but feel that if he was with those other two, he would be in the middle of it, whether he has a choice or not........personally, I think he would think it was fun.................by the way.....I almost puked to put him in as a Canuck.........I friggin hate him.

 

So Good point............but that was my thought process

 

As for Sundin, he had so much skill..........they were forgettable years when he was here, but he was crazy good.......IMO