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Canucks All-time First 2 Fantasy lines

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11 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

When did Morrow play for Vancouver?

 

Anyway, as to your first line, I get what you're saying but I think the point is that like those old guys who don't make the team, these new guys also have a tiny sample size as Canucks.  If they got traded tomorrow, their biggest career moments when it was all said and done would be with their next team, just as was the case with Vaive, Bill Derlago, Neely, Murray Bannerman, Peca, etc.  Of course if a guy has only played one or two years, his defining moments thus far will be with his first team.

 

Anyway, Vancouver had some great players that just passed through for a cup of coffee at the end.  I made a thread about them...  Pit Martin, Charlie Hodge, Mel Bridgman, etc.  But again, small sample size.

Hey Biestra I probably made some posts in this thread your talking about but my memory isn’t what it used to be ... any chance you could find it and resurrect it so I can take a look?  Geoff Sanderson ... ha ha 

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54 minutes ago, BENN said:

btw how about Ryan Miller for goalie or Schneider?

If we could get prime Buffalo Miller he’s  be a contender for the starting job.   Same way if we could get prime Messier he’d be on everyone’s first line.   On Messier... the year before we got him he scored 36 times and 84 points in 71 games.   The year before that 47 goals and 99 points in 74 games...IF he fell in line with Linden and accepted a second line role, AND Bure was healthy and we re-signed him without any contract bogus...that team was our first cup winner.   At the time Messier had 16 consecutive years at over a PGP, 6 of them between 101-129 points,  and almost an astounding plus 275 ....  Still we just can’t have Messier in this game it’s against the rules ha ha.   I’m guessing we have to only consider how well the players did for us otherwise Neely and Vaive would also need consideration.    So no to Miller and no to Schneider.    McLean, Luongo, Brodeur make the most sense although Markstrom would be ok too.   Cloutier no way ha ha. 

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23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Hey Biestra I probably made some posts in this thread your talking about but my memory isn’t what it used to be ... any chance you could find it and resurrect it so I can take a look?  Geoff Sanderson ... ha ha 

 

 

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All-time regular season team:  Again won’t use one year players.

 

Mogilny Linden Bure

D. Sedin H. Sedin Smyl

Naslund Ronning Bertuzzi 

Courtnall Kesler Tanti

 

Reinhart Jovo

Lumme  Brown

Lidster  Bieksa

 

All time playoff team:

 

 Burrows Linden Bure

Courtnall  Ronning Smyl

Naslund  Gradin Tanti

Adams  Kesler  Bertuzzi 


Williams Kurtenbach 


Reinhart Brown

Lumme Bieksa

Ohlund  Babych 

 

Snepsts 

 

1. McLean

2. Luongo

3. Brodeur

 

Notable omissions.   Obviously the Sedins.  Can’t get around the plus minus.  More harm then good avoided and really only had one, maybe two good playoffs.    Bertuzzi makes the fourth line given his size, split Naslund up in sheltered minutes ...Went with all of our top all-time clutch post season scorers ...it’s also why I have Ohlund instead of Edler, plus he was a punishing hitter and a penchant for huge goals when you needed them.  Jovo was hard to keep off too, unfortunately again his plus minus just wasn’t up to snuff.  Rick Lanz was also a late cut.   Consistent scorer in the post season, didn’t play in our first  run  - but did well in all this other cracks at.   Snepsts makes it as the 7th D.  Toughness and durability matter, why Salo is on the third pairing ha ha.   It was also hard to leave Gélinas out, but in the end Adams was a consistent L wing for us with some terrific clutch scoring, which couldn’t  be ignored.

 

Edit:  Williams and Snepsts and Kurtenbach are all guys that can play and do the rough stuff.  Also happen to all be in the Hockey Writers top six best fighters of all time.   Was hard choosing Fraser or Williams.  In the end had to go with Tiger.   
 

Edit:  Added goalies.  Considering this is their prime with us wasn’t hard to put Captain Kirk as number one.   For a couple of years there he was considered a top three goalie, much like Luongo was around 2010.    Luongo won the gold medal, but did allow the tying goal late right?  And we won’t talk about 2011.   That said awesome nonetheless,  McLean come peak playoff gets the edge.   One of the best sp for a cup finalist/winner in the 90’s, and it still holds up today as excellent .924ish.   And has the “the Save” which is still iconic and one of the most watched u-tube goalie saves ever. 
 

Edit:  I ignore the Salo stuff.   I changed him out for Babych. 

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1 hour ago, filthycanuck said:

Tough to gauge though with this thread. Is it 2 best fantasy lines, or 2 best lines that actually played?

Think it’s take any players in their prime and make the best two lines - to I took it as the best two playoff lines as the fantasy stuff is well, really just exactly that given the regular season only matters to the degree of how it can manage your first opponent in round one. 

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2 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Tough to gauge though with this thread. Is it 2 best fantasy lines, or 2 best lines that actually played?

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Think it’s take any players in their prime and make the best two lines - to I took it as the best two playoff lines as the fantasy stuff is well, really just exactly that given the regular season only matters to the degree of how it can manage your first opponent in round one. 

Yes, Fantasy all the way. you can mix twins with smyl and on and on...

and it is based on their play with their canucks jersey on, for example as it has been noted in the upper area , Messier isn't even allowed in the arena here, although a nhl legend obviously.

but not a legend here.

P.S added fantasy to the subject.

 

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8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Edit:  Added goalies.  Considering this is their prime with us wasn’t hard to put Captain Kirk as number one.   For a couple of years there he was considered a top three goalie, much like Luongo was around 2010.    Luongo won the gold medal, but did allow the tying goal late right?  And we won’t talk about 2011.   That said awesome nonetheless,  McLean come peak playoff gets the edge.   One of the best sp for a cup finalist/winner in the 90’s, and it still holds up today as excellent .924ish.   And has the “the Save” which is still iconic and one of the most watched u-tube goalie saves ever. 

 

A very good case can be made that from 1988 to 1994, McLean was the second best goalie in the NHL over that period.

 

(and don't forget who pulled off a .918 in the 80s...)

Edited by Kevin Biestra
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12 hours ago, BENN said:

btw how about Ryan Miller for goalie or Schneider?

Based on their bodies of work in a Canucks uniform, I'd put both guys below McLean, Markstrom, Luongo, and King Richard.   

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1 minute ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Based on their bodies of work in a Canucks uniform, I'd put both guys below McLean, Markstrom, Luongo, and King Richard.   

 

I have Miller and Schneider below those guys AND Gary Smith.  However, I would consider having Schneider above Markstrom.  I think Schneider still holds the records for GAA and SPCT for a Canuck.  1.96 GAA for the season is unreal. 

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10 hours ago, IBatch said:

All-time regular season team:  Again won’t use one year players.

 

Mogilny Linden Bure

D. Sedin H. Sedin Smyl

Naslund Ronning Bertuzzi 

Courtnall Kesler Tanti

 

Reinhart Jovo

Lumme  Brown

Lidster  Bieksa

 

All time playoff team:

 

 Burrows Linden Bure

Courtnall  Ronning Smyl

Naslund  Gradin Tanti

Adams  Kesler  Bertuzzi 


Williams Kurtenbach 


Reinhart Brown

Lumme Bieksa

Ohlund  Salo

 

Snepsts 

 

1. McLean

2. Luongo

3. Brodeur

 

Notable omissions.   Obviously the Sedins.  Can’t get around the plus minus.  More harm then good avoided and really only had one, maybe two good playoffs.    Bertuzzi makes the fourth line given his size, split Naslund up in sheltered minutes ...Went with all of our top all-time clutch post season scorers ...it’s also why I have Ohlund instead of Edler, plus he was a punishing hitter and a penchant for huge goals when you needed them.  Jovo was hard to keep off too, unfortunately again his plus minus just wasn’t up to snuff.  Rick Lanz was also a late cut.   Consistent scorer in the post season, didn’t play in our first  run  - but did well in all this other cracks at.   Snepsts makes it as the 7th D.  Toughness and durability matter, why Salo is on the third pairing ha ha.   It was also hard to leave Gélinas out, but in the end Adams was a consistent L wing for us with some terrific clutch scoring, which couldn’t  be ignored.

 

Edit:  Williams and Snepsts and Kurtenbach are all guys that can play and do the rough stuff.  Also happen to all be in the Hockey Writers top six best fighters of all time.   Was hard choosing Fraser or Williams.  In the end had to go with Tiger.   
 

Edit:  Added goalies.  Considering this is their prime with us wasn’t hard to put Captain Kirk as number one.   For a couple of years there he was considered a top three goalie, much like Luongo was around 2010.    Luongo won the gold medal, but did allow the tying goal late right?  And we won’t talk about 2011.   That said awesome nonetheless,  McLean come peak playoff gets the edge.   One of the best sp for a cup finalist/winner in the 90’s, and it still holds up today as excellent .924ish.   And has the “the Save” which is still iconic and one of the most watched u-tube goalie saves ever. 

You did a really good job with this.  :cool:  IF the Bure and Mogilny experiment ever had a chance of working, Linden would be the guy to do it.  He's good defensively, can open up space, and has enough playmaking ability in him to maximize both Bure and Mogilny (which is why Kesler might not be the best fit here).    

 

Also love your selection of Smyl with the twins.   That would have been my second choice after Linden by the way (I went with Linden with the twins).   Smyl is smart and has a good defensive conscience (which is why I don't like Bertuzzi with the twins), and plays with sandpaper like Burrows.

 

Running Bertuzzi and Naslund is another solid selection.   My only slight issue with this, is if Ronning is good enough defensively to cover for Naslund and Bertuzzi?   I was a teenager during the 90's and so I don't recall Ronning's playing style (I figured him as being more of an offensive playmaker), but I could be wrong here.     Love that 4th line as well (although wasn't Tanti a LW'er?).   All three of those guys seem a little weak with their playmaking ability, but that wouldn't matter much if they were your 4th line being used in more of a match-ups role.   

 

On defense, I'm not sure about that top pairing.   Reinhart and Jovo would get eaten up defensively I think.   I think you're 'all playoff' defensive pairings are a lot better.   Really like Ohlund/Salo and Lumme/Bieksa in particular.   Reinhart/Brown is good as well, but I'd be a little concerned about their defensive play.

 

In net, I think we both agree that McLean should be there.   However, I'd put Markstrom ahead of Luongo.   Luongo was more talented than Markstrom, but he was also a lot more up and down, especially when it mattered most.   I'd go 50/50 with McLean and Marky, and simply ride the hot goalie.

 

Great overall work though!       

Edited by DarkIndianRises
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21 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I have Miller and Schneider below those guys AND Gary Smith.  However, I would consider having Schneider above Markstrom.  I think Schneider still holds the records for GAA and SPCT for a Canuck.  1.96 GAA for the season is unreal. 

My thing with Schneider is that he often used to get mysterious injuries when we needed him the most.    Game 6 in 2011 against Chicago.   That mysterious injury in 2012 against the Kings in the first round, and then his injury before the 2013 playoffs.   I don’t begrudge Schneider for his injuries as they’re often unavoidable, but he did seem to go down a LOT when it mattered most.  Schneider was a talented goalie but I think there’s also a reason why he never won a round in NJ (let alone make the playoffs?).  

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26 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

My thing with Schneider is that he often used to get mysterious injuries when we needed him the most.    Game 6 in 2011 against Chicago.   That mysterious injury in 2012 against the Kings in the first round, and then his injury before the 2013 playoffs.   I don’t begrudge Schneider for his injuries as they’re often unavoidable, but he did seem to go down a LOT when it mattered most.  Schneider was a talented goalie but I think there’s also a reason why he never won a round in NJ (let alone make the playoffs?).  

 

I would say the reason he never did anything in New Jersey was the exact same reason Luongo never made the playoffs in Florida before coming to the Canucks.  Vezina finalist caliber goalie on a doggy doo team.  But yeah, Schneider was no ironman that's for sure.  At least not in Vancouver.  He played some heavy workload seasons for the Devils before forgetting how to play goalie.

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11 hours ago, IBatch said:

All-time regular season team:  Again won’t use one year players.

 

Mogilny Linden Bure

D. Sedin H. Sedin Smyl

Naslund Ronning Bertuzzi 

Courtnall Kesler Tanti

 

Reinhart Jovo

Lumme  Brown

Lidster  Bieksa

 

All time playoff team:

 

 Burrows Linden Bure

Courtnall  Ronning Smyl

Naslund  Gradin Tanti

Adams  Kesler  Bertuzzi 


Williams Kurtenbach 


Reinhart Brown

Lumme Bieksa

Ohlund  Salo

 

Snepsts 

 

1. McLean

2. Luongo

3. Brodeur

 

Notable omissions.   Obviously the Sedins.  Can’t get around the plus minus.  More harm then good avoided and really only had one, maybe two good playoffs.    Bertuzzi makes the fourth line given his size, split Naslund up in sheltered minutes ...Went with all of our top all-time clutch post season scorers ...it’s also why I have Ohlund instead of Edler, plus he was a punishing hitter and a penchant for huge goals when you needed them.  Jovo was hard to keep off too, unfortunately again his plus minus just wasn’t up to snuff.  Rick Lanz was also a late cut.   Consistent scorer in the post season, didn’t play in our first  run  - but did well in all this other cracks at.   Snepsts makes it as the 7th D.  Toughness and durability matter, why Salo is on the third pairing ha ha.   It was also hard to leave Gélinas out, but in the end Adams was a consistent L wing for us with some terrific clutch scoring, which couldn’t  be ignored.

 

Edit:  Williams and Snepsts and Kurtenbach are all guys that can play and do the rough stuff.  Also happen to all be in the Hockey Writers top six best fighters of all time.   Was hard choosing Fraser or Williams.  In the end had to go with Tiger.   
 

Edit:  Added goalies.  Considering this is their prime with us wasn’t hard to put Captain Kirk as number one.   For a couple of years there he was considered a top three goalie, much like Luongo was around 2010.    Luongo won the gold medal, but did allow the tying goal late right?  And we won’t talk about 2011.   That said awesome nonetheless,  McLean come peak playoff gets the edge.   One of the best sp for a cup finalist/winner in the 90’s, and it still holds up today as excellent .924ish.   And has the “the Save” which is still iconic and one of the most watched u-tube goalie saves ever. 

My only one minor criticism of your suggested line combos, is the underlying assumption that the twins, Naslund, and Bertuzzi wouldn’t be ‘clutch’ players in secondary roles due to their inability to be clutch players with top line responsibilities.   Guys like Geoff Courtnal, Greg Adams, Cliff Ronning, etc., were great clutch players, but we shouldn’t ignore the fact that they weren’t top line players by themselves.  These types of players were often seen on the first line, but they were often riding shotgun with the true alphas of the team that demanded far more attention (Linden, Bure, Mogilny, etc.).  Ditto for Burrows.   Burrows was a top line player because he fit well with the twins.  Burrows was on that line, but top centers and defenders focused far more on the twins.  
 

My argument is this:   Find a way to get Nazzy, Bertuzzi, and the twins off that first line, and AWAY from the toughest match-ups, and they’ll blow guys like Ronning, Adams, and Courtnal out of the Pacific Ocean.    Again, just my opinion though.   I like your team a lot though.   Your team doesn’t have recency bias like mine likely does (although I tried to avoid it). 

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5 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

My only one minor criticism of your suggested line combos, is the underlying assumption that the twins, Naslund, and Bertuzzi wouldn’t be ‘clutch’ players in secondary roles due to their inability to be clutch players with top line responsibilities.   Guys like Geoff Courtnal, Greg Adams, Cliff Ronning, etc., were great clutch players, but we shouldn’t ignore the fact that they weren’t top line players by themselves.  These types of players were often seen on the first line, but they were often riding shotgun with the true alphas of the team that demanded far more attention (Linden, Bure, Mogilny, etc.).  Ditto for Burrows.   Burrows was a top line player because he fit well with the twins.  Burrows was on that line, but top centers and defenders focused far more on the twins.  
 

My argument is this:   Find a way to get Nazzy, Bertuzzi, and the twins off that first line, and AWAY from the toughest match-ups, and they’ll blow guys like Ronning, Adams, and Courtnal out of the Pacific Ocean.    Again, just my opinion though.   I like your team a lot though.   Your team doesn’t have recency bias like mine likely does (although I tried to avoid it). 

 

Ronning, Courtnall and Linden were the top line before Bure arrived.  Cliff Ronning was the playoff hero in 1991 in that role.

 

Naslund may have performed well in these secondary playoff roles you are hypothesizing, but he doesn't have that Linden stuff in his DNA.

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53 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Ronning, Courtnall and Linden were the top line before Bure arrived.  Cliff Ronning was the playoff hero in 1991 in that role.

 

Naslund may have performed well in these secondary playoff roles you are hypothesizing, but he doesn't have that Linden stuff in his DNA.

Yep.   Ronning has as many goals in less playoff games and of course he had the tough match ups too (as the Sedins I meant to say)...   Second lines often do, just ask Horvat.  As do first lines.   Ronning, Babych, Linden, Courtnall  and Adams all had the “it” factor.   Was tough leaving Babych off the team.   I’m going back and changing it. 

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50 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

My only one minor criticism of your suggested line combos, is the underlying assumption that the twins, Naslund, and Bertuzzi wouldn’t be ‘clutch’ players in secondary roles due to their inability to be clutch players with top line responsibilities.   Guys like Geoff Courtnal, Greg Adams, Cliff Ronning, etc., were great clutch players, but we shouldn’t ignore the fact that they weren’t top line players by themselves.  These types of players were often seen on the first line, but they were often riding shotgun with the true alphas of the team that demanded far more attention (Linden, Bure, Mogilny, etc.).  Ditto for Burrows.   Burrows was a top line player because he fit well with the twins.  Burrows was on that line, but top centers and defenders focused far more on the twins.  
 

My argument is this:   Find a way to get Nazzy, Bertuzzi, and the twins off that first line, and AWAY from the toughest match-ups, and they’ll blow guys like Ronning, Adams, and Courtnal out of the Pacific Ocean.    Again, just my opinion though.   I like your team a lot though.   Your team doesn’t have recency bias like mine likely does (although I tried to avoid it). 

Biestra, said it best.   Ronning was a playoff hero before 94...Linden wasn’t made a C until that run so the team had an answer for Otto.   A selfless move, both me and my brother believe he’d have ended up in the HHOF or definitely be close if it never happened.   Even still when he retired he was was in the top 100 all-time.   His playoff abilities are unquestionable, where as Naslund and Bertuzzi’s are, they both had enough kicks at the can.   The Sedins were underwhelming aside from two runs, and only one of those did they match their regular season production.   And they did have chances as a second, sheltered line behind Naslund and Co right?  Linden was our best forward just before retirement against Dallas in the Luongo/Turco battle....he was always game come the post season as were the majority of the guys I picked for my team. 

 

I get what your hypothetical is.   This is just for fun and who really knows. 

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31 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Biestra, said it best.   Ronning was a playoff hero before 94...Linden wasn’t made a C until that run so the team had an answer for Otto.   A selfless move, both me and my brother believe he’d have ended up in the HHOF or definitely be close if it never happened.   Even still when he retired he was was in the top 100 all-time.   His playoff abilities are unquestionable, where as Naslund and Bertuzzi’s are, they both had enough kicks at the can.   The Sedins were underwhelming aside from two runs, and only one of those did they match their regular season production.   And they did have chances as a second, sheltered line behind Naslund and Co right?  Linden was our best forward just before retirement against Dallas in the Luongo/Turco battle....he was always game come the post season as were the majority of the guys I picked for my team. 

 

I get what your hypothetical is.   This is just for fun and who really knows. 

The twins weren’t superstars yet when they played behind the WCE from 2001-2004.   
 

I’m unfamiliar with Ronning’s playoff heroics before 1994 and so that’s definitely something I’d be interested in researching.   You may have actually sold me on Ronning here and so I’ll go back to my drawing board.  :-p.  I’m going to officially list McLean as the #1 guy.  I’ll still pick Hughes over Lumme since I’ve never seen ANYONE likes Hughes before.   

 

Miller-Pettersson-Bure

Sedin-Sedin-Linden

Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi 

Burrows-Ronning-Mogilny

 

Smyl

 

Edler-Brown

Hughes-Bieksa 

Ohlund-Salo 

 

Lumme 

 

Mclean (I’ll list Mclean as #1 now)

Markstrom

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