Kevin Biestra Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said: I’m unfamiliar with Ronning’s playoff heroics before 1994 and so that’s definitely something I’d be interested in researching. You may have actually sold me on Ronning here and so I’ll go back to my drawing board. :-p. I’m going to officially list McLean as the #1 guy. I’ll still pick Hughes over Lumme since I’ve never seen ANYONE likes Hughes before. Overtime 1991 vs. Gretzky's Kings. This dude remembered the goal over 20 years later and I don't think he's even a Canucks fan. Edited October 27, 2020 by Kevin Biestra 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said: Overtime 1991 vs. Gretzky's Kings. This dude remembered the goal over 20 years later and I don't think he's even a Canucks fan. Sweet! I was only 10 years old in 1991 and so while I have fond memories of Ronning, they aren’t as detailed as some other guys. Ronning was also terrific with both Bure and Mogilny. #RonningInHorvatOut. :-p 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said: Sweet! I was only 10 years old in 1991 and so while I have fond memories of Ronning, they aren’t as detailed as some other guys. Ronning was also terrific with both Bure and Mogilny. #RonningInHorvatOut. :-p Courtnall - Ronning - Linden was known as "the Lifeline" and had quite a bit of respect around the league. The lineup got rearranged a bit when new talent came in but those three are stuck together in a lot of minds that saw them click immediately after the trade with St. Louis. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Horvat over Ronning: :-( I’m spending *way* too much time in this, but I really love the concept of this thread. After thinking about it further, I probably still would choose Horvat over Ronning on my team. Yes, Ronning was -An awesome playmaker -An awesome clutch performer -A guy that has proven chemistry with Mogilny, Bure, Linden, Courtnal, etc., But Horvat, -Is also proving himself to be a clutch player -Can be used to shut down and can also be used in scoring roles. -Is an excellent face-off man. -Has size and toughness to complement his speed -Can go up against other top lines without needing to play alongside superstars (I love Ronning, but could he realistically play against opposing top lines and defensive pairings if he didn’t have other top line players such as Bure, Mogilny, and Linden by his side?). So - I’ll go back to my original lines with respect. Miller-Pettersson-Bure Sedin-Sedin-Linden Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny Smyl Edler-Brown Hughes-Tanev Jovanovski-Lidster Lumme McLean Markstrom Alternate line combos: Naslund-Pettersson-Bure (scoring line 1) Sedin-Sedin-Mogilny (scoring line 2) Miller-Horvat-Bertuzzi (set the tone physically) Burrows-Kesler-Linden (shut down line that can score) Smyl Hughes-Jovanovski (pure offense) Edler-Tanev (shut down) Lumme-Brown (blend) Lidster McLean Markstrom Edited November 2, 2020 by DarkIndianRises 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucard Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) That third line of Naslund Kesler Betruzzi, they do damage teams man. btw Ehrhoff was awesome D too. Edited October 29, 2020 by BENN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, BENN said: That third line of Naslund Kesler Betruzzi, they do damage teams man. btw Ehrhoff was awesome D too. Prime Linden would probably be a better fit than Kesler (Linden has better playmaking abilities than Kesler while also being just as great defensively), but I’ve already got Linden playing with the twins. However, Kesler’s excellent defensive play would also make him a great fit for the twins in my opinion. I don’t think Kesler’s lack of ability to utilize his linemates at times would be too big a deal given the talent level of his linemates. Another idea I had been toying with: Pettersson-Kesler-Bure Naslund-Linden-Bertuzzi Sedin-Sedin-Smyl Miller-Ronning-Mogilny Horvat Hughes-Edler Lumme-Brown Ohlund-Salo Jovanovski McLean Markstrom Edited October 30, 2020 by DarkIndianRises 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said: WTF... Boeser and no Smyl. Get out of here NHL. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said: WTF... Boeser and no Smyl. Get out of here NHL. Canucks Top 5: (off the top of my head) 1) Henrik 2) Bure 3) Daniel 4) Naslund 5) Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Coffee Break Canucks: Toffoli-Messier-Sundin Vanek-Larionov-Neely Rucinsky-Peca-Krutov Sanderson-Pederson-Demitra Nedved Reinhart-Schneider Weinrich-Carney Erhoff-Ledyard Ciconne? Burke Potvin Edited November 3, 2020 by DarkIndianRises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 10 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said: Coffee Break Canucks: Toffoli-Messier-Sundin Vanek-Larionov-Neely Rucinsky-Peca-Krutov Bellows-Pederson-Umberger Nedved Reinhart-Schneider Weinrich-Carney Erhoff-Ledyard Ciconne? Burke Potvin Bellows? Did you mean Gagner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 12 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: Bellows? Did you mean Gagner? I think Brian Bellows was on a PTO during the 1997-1998 season and made the trip to Nagano, but got cut fairly early. I could be wrong though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said: I think Brian Bellows was on a PTO during the 1997-1998 season and made the trip to Nagano, but got cut fairly early. I could be wrong though. Ah yes, the original Owen Nolan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I'm going with the player at their peak when with the Canucks (not elsewhere). The Canucks have only had 2 players to score 50 or more goals in a season...Pavel Bure (3) & Alex Mogilny (1) so those 2 will be my top line snipers. We have had 6 different players eclipse the 40 goal plateau (Rota, Tanti - 3 times, Naslund - 3 times, Bertuzzi, Kesler & Danny S.) As for setup men, there has only been 1 Canucks player who has provided 80+ assists in a season (Hank - once) and only 1 player to setup his teammates 70+ times in a season (same guy, Hank - 3 times). So to dip down a bit to the 60+ assists category we get Hank again (3 times...wow, that's 7 seasons total over 60 assists) plus Danny and another surprise teammate helper, Andre Boudrias (1 time). So for my ALL TIME Canucks top 2 lines I'm going with: Bure - Mogilny - Naslund (Centre)...kind of a soft line but I hope with speed and skill they can over power the defense Tanti - Danny - Hank (Centre)...a couple of tough players in the Sedins and a great finisher in Tanti. My next line I'll go with some grit and a bit of goal scoring prowess: Smyl - Bertuzzi - Linden (Centre) And then round it out with some toughness: Tiger - Gino - Paiement (Centre)...I went with Rosie as Centre since there aren't a lot of really tough Centremen in our history. Rosie put up 62 points in his first season here along with 152 PIMs. I guess another alternative here might be LaPierre but I think Rosie answers the bell more often than Max would. Or perhaps the best solution would be either Brashear or Hunter, and teach one of the 3 to take draws. Now for the backend. I gotta include Paul Reinhart (L), the only Canucks Dman to lead the team in scoring. Also must include Ohlund (L) and Jovo-cop (L). To round out the defense corps I'll go with Lidster (R), McCarthy (R) and finally the "Finnish MacInnes", Sami Salo (R)...which automatically means I need to have a backup right shot ready to go when (not IF) Sami goes down...so we'll add Francesco Bieksa (R) to the pressbox. Protecting the net must fall on Luuuuuuu and Captain Kirk. So here's my team (rotating the 2 Ass'ts like we did in the last 10 years): BURE - NASLUND "C" - MOGILNY TANTI - H.SEDIN "A" - D.SEDIN "A" BERTUZZI - LINDEN "A" - SMYL "A" WILLIAMS - PAIEMENT - ODJICK REINHART - McCARTHY OHLUND - SALO (BIEKSA) JOVANOVSKI - LIDSTER LUONGO MacLEAN Some arguments could be made for certain other players for sure (ie/ "the Butcher of Hastings" or the original policeman himself, Sneptsy) and for the up-and-comers (Petey and Quinn) but I'll stick with my team for now, thanks. Just hand over the cup... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 4 hours ago, ABNuck said: We have had 6 different players eclipse the 40 goal plateau (Rota, Tanti - 3 times, Naslund - 3 times, Bertuzzi, Kesler & Danny S.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) On 10/28/2020 at 1:24 PM, DarkIndianRises said: Horvat over Ronning: :-( I’m spending *way* too much time in this, but I really love the concept of this thread. After thinking about it further, I probably still would choose Horvat over Ronning on my team. Yes, Ronning was -An awesome playmaker -An awesome clutch performer -A guy that has proven chemistry with Mogilny, Bure, Linden, Courtnal, etc., But Horvat, -Is also proving himself to be a clutch player -Can be used to shut down and can also be used in scoring roles. -Is an excellent face-off man. -Has size and toughness to complement his speed -Can go up against other top lines without needing to play alongside superstars (I love Ronning, but could he realistically play against opposing top lines and defensive pairings if he didn’t have other top line players such as Bure, Mogilny, and Linden by his side?). So - I’ll go back to my original lines with respect. Miller-Pettersson-Bure Sedin-Sedin-Linden Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny Smyl Edler-Brown Hughes-Bieksa Ohlund-Salo Lumme McLean Markstrom Going to update my defensive pairings: Edler-Brown Hughes-Tanev Jovanovski-Lidster Lumme -Each pairing will have a strong PMD (Brown, Hughes, and Jovo) -Three guys on the team with excellent “stay at home” skills that can excel on the PK (Edler, Tanev, and Lidster) -2 guys that can successfully quarterback a PP (Brown and Hughes) Up front -Each line will have a guy that can take key face offs and is good at face offs. -Pettersson’s speed, playmaking ability, and solid two way game would complement Bure. Miller would also bring a physical presence, playmaking ability, and defensive awareness. -Kesler doesn’t have the greatest playmaking ability, but I think it would be good enough to play with Naslund and Bertuzzi. Kesler’s face off ability and defensive acumen would also be a good fit for the WCE. Kesler’s ability to elevate his game in the clutch should also have the WCE perform better in the clutch as well. -Linden would bring sandpaper, intelligence, face off ability, and strong defensive play to the cycling and insanely talented twins. Linden’s ability to play in the clutch should also help bring out the best in the twins. -Mogilny’s playmaking ability and solid two way game should mesh will with the Bull known as Bo Horvat. Horvat should be able to create lots of space for Mogilny while winning face offs. Burrows would bring a solid defensive sense along with decent hands to aid Bo. Miller-Pettersson-Bure Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi Sedin-Sedin-Linden Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny Smyl Edler-Brown Hughes-Tanev Jovanovski-Lidster Lumme McLean Markstrom Edited November 1, 2020 by DarkIndianRises 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) On 10/28/2020 at 4:24 PM, DarkIndianRises said: Horvat over Ronning: :-( I’m spending *way* too much time in this, but I really love the concept of this thread. After thinking about it further, I probably still would choose Horvat over Ronning on my team. Yes, Ronning was -An awesome playmaker -An awesome clutch performer -A guy that has proven chemistry with Mogilny, Bure, Linden, Courtnal, etc., But Horvat, -Is also proving himself to be a clutch player -Can be used to shut down and can also be used in scoring roles. -Is an excellent face-off man. -Has size and toughness to complement his speed -Can go up against other top lines without needing to play alongside superstars (I love Ronning, but could he realistically play against opposing top lines and defensive pairings if he didn’t have other top line players such as Bure, Mogilny, and Linden by his side?). So - I’ll go back to my original lines with respect. Miller-Pettersson-Bure Sedin-Sedin-Linden Naslund-Kesler-Bertuzzi Burrows-Horvat-Mogilny Smyl Edler-Brown Hughes-Bieksa Ohlund-Salo Lumme McLean Markstrom DIR. Ronning could and did play against top defensive players and top players in the world from the early 90’s and the start of the dead puck era with us, and then later played on the top line in NSH in the deepest part of the dead puck era when tackling was ok. Horvat has never had to play with clutching, grabbing and holding etc, and he hasn’t played on a top line yet either...yes he’s used as a defensive line at home - but away games EP/Miller line gets the most attention for sure...in 2000 and 2001 he scored back to back 62 point seasons one with 26 goals and one with 19... over his entire career, more then half in the dead puck era, he scored 306 goals and 869 points, two more then Linden in several hundred less games. Horvat had an amazing playoffs no doubt, was the story in St Louis early on. And was on pace to set a record if we made it to the final. But so far Ronning owns the top seat for best second line playoff C we’ve had, and half of that he was our first line C too. For me anyways, Linden and Ronning are firmly in the top six for all-time C’s come post season. And yes he was small, but he wasn’t a pushover at all, and built like a little tank, much like Smyl was, 5’8” 175-180 playing weight. Think if you watched him play more this wouldn’t be much of a debate. Horvat’s game isn’t really that physical. Ronning should have stayed and would have if they didn’t clear the slot for Gretzky. Too bad he didn’t or no Messier. Edit: Linden, Ronning, Kesler and Horvat would make for some great C depth .. if you want to keep EP maybe moving him to the wing work. For me anyways I kept first year players and one off playoff types off out of the lineup. It’s fun to discuss for sure and who really knows what the best should look like. Thanks for playing! Edited November 1, 2020 by IBatch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 4 hours ago, IBatch said: DIR. Ronning could and did play against top defensive players and top players in the world from the early 90’s and the start of the dead puck era with us, and then later played on the top line in NSH in the deepest part of the dead puck era when tackling was ok. Horvat has never had to play with clutching, grabbing and holding etc, and he hasn’t played on a top line yet either...yes he’s used as a defensive line at home - but away games EP/Miller line gets the most attention for sure...in 2000 and 2001 he scored back to back 62 point seasons one with 26 goals and one with 19... over his entire career, more then half in the dead puck era, he scored 306 goals and 869 points, two more then Linden in several hundred less games. Horvat had an amazing playoffs no doubt, was the story in St Louis early on. And was on pace to set a record if we made it to the final. But so far Ronning owns the top seat for best second line playoff C we’ve had, and half of that he was our first line C too. For me anyways, Linden and Ronning are firmly in the top six for all-time C’s come post season. And yes he was small, but he wasn’t a pushover at all, and built like a little tank, much like Smyl was, 5’8” 175-180 playing weight. Think if you watched him play more this wouldn’t be much of a debate. Horvat’s game isn’t really that physical. Ronning should have stayed and would have if they didn’t clear the slot for Gretzky. Too bad he didn’t or no Messier. Fair enough about Ronning. Like I said, I was a kid/early teens during Ronning's time in Vancouver and so my analysis of him is likely off. I remember Running being a terrific playmaker and offensive player but wasn't aware of his defensive prowess (although that would explain why Quinn may have felt comfortable pairing him up with Bure and Mogilny). Will have to disagree with you on one thing though - Horvat has had top line experience before playing with Boeser if memory serves me correctly. Even in this year's playoffs, Green would sometimes throw Miller-Horvat-Boeser out there to go head to head against the top lines. Even if he's often used on the top line, Horvat often takes on the toughest match-ups, and his line of Pearson and Eriksson are often thrown out on the ice during the last minute to protect the lead. Horvat isn't physical, in the sense that he's going to demolish other players into the boards, but the guy rarely loses puck battles. Horvat rarely gets bumped off the puck, rarely loses face-offs, and skates like a guy that is 30-40 lbs. lighter. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one iBatch. Respectfully of course. It definitely is possible that recency bias is clouding my judgement, I'd probably still take Horvat over Ronning. Great face-off guy, rarely loses puck battles, has been captain, takes on the toughest match-ups, fast skater, can fight, and is consistently used in the final minutes of a game to protect the lead. Ronning posses a lot of these qualities as well, but my preference is still for Horvat. Agree with you about Quinn however. He really $&!# the bed with the Running/Gretzky situation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said: Fair enough about Ronning. Like I said, I was a kid/early teens during Ronning's time in Vancouver and so my analysis of him is likely off. I remember Running being a terrific playmaker and offensive player but wasn't aware of his defensive prowess (although that would explain why Quinn may have felt comfortable pairing him up with Bure and Mogilny). Will have to disagree with you on one thing though - Horvat has had top line experience before playing with Boeser if memory serves me correctly. Even in this year's playoffs, Green would sometimes throw Miller-Horvat-Boeser out there to go head to head against the top lines. Even if he's often used on the top line, Horvat often takes on the toughest match-ups, and his line of Pearson and Eriksson are often thrown out on the ice during the last minute to protect the lead. Horvat isn't physical, in the sense that he's going to demolish other players into the boards, but the guy rarely loses puck battles. Horvat rarely gets bumped off the puck, rarely loses face-offs, and skates like a guy that is 30-40 lbs. lighter. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one iBatch. Respectfully of course. It definitely is possible that recency bias is clouding my judgement, I'd probably still take Horvat over Ronning. Great face-off guy, rarely loses puck battles, has been captain, takes on the toughest match-ups, fast skater, can fight, and is consistently used in the final minutes of a game to protect the lead. Ronning posses a lot of these qualities as well, but my preference is still for Horvat. Agree with you about Quinn however. He really $&!# the bed with the Running/Gretzky situation. No worries in a four line team I’d have a hard time leaving Horvat off too. On Gretzky/ that wasn’t on Quin at all. Orca f!cked that up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Santala - Bulis - Sturm Bernier - Chouinard - Ritchie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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