MeanSeanBean Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Kevin Biestra said: Then I don't think you've looked independently and honestly at the words and policies of both candidates, from their own mouths and actions. And the manner in which you immediately end the discussion there suggests the emotional reaction of a partisan that isn't interested in actual evidence or discussion. Trump wasn't mentored by a KKK exalted cyclops. Biden was. His mentors in government were Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond. And that's just for starters. But like you said, we can discontinue. I just said we would discontinue this conversation. Full transparency, I didn't read what you wrote and have zero intension on doing so. Nothing to say here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, shayster007 said: I just said we would discontinue this conversation. Full transparency, I didn't read what you wrote and have zero intension on doing so. Nothing to say here. You sound like a brainwashed person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Kevin Biestra said: You sound like a brainwashed person. I feel like you meant that to be an insult. Based off what I learned about you tonight, that's actually a compliment that you think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, shayster007 said: I feel like you meant that to be an insult. Based off what I learned about you tonight, that's actually a compliment that you think that. It's not even meant as an insult. You had the same reaction a young earth creationist has when presented with dinosaur bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallAfterLife Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: It's fair to believe what he said if you want but I don't think it's accurate. There is a far stronger case for Biden having racial issues than Trump. And that's the tip of the iceberg for reasons to think twice about voting for Joe. 55 minutes ago, shayster007 said: You think what ever you want, but that is a absurd statement. We would never see eye to eye on this subject based off what you said, so we can discontinue. I think the sort of middle ground between both your opinions is that both Trump and Biden express their racism in the America but in different ways. I'm honestly not sure that Trump is racist to his core. The bulk of his support comes from demographics that were racist long before he came along in 2016 and so he panders to those groups and in a lot of ways has adopted their way of thinking. Biden meanwhile is not only responsible for the 1994 crime bill that has disproportionately hurt communities of colour by sending individuals to prison for minor drug possession charges. But also had a hand in numerous pieces of neoliberal legislation that has economically depressed and alienated the groups that now support Trump away from the Democratic Party. Midwestern parts of America have traditionally voted for Democrats because they've been pro-worker. But have now turned away from the Democratic Party because they believe Trump will bring their jobs back. Many of those voters lost their jobs under Bush and never recovered under Obama. Trump is dangerous right now because he's radicalizing a lot of people. But Biden was responsible for the conditions that made people susceptible to Trump's radical message. I guess to use a farming analogy. Biden has worked the soil and but Trump is now watering the seeds. Biden was a US Senator when Ronald Reagan was President and started perpetuating the myth of the black welfare queen. Biden didn't push back against that myth. Biden was also against desegregating public schools. An issue his very own VP pick Kamala Harris attacked him on in the primary. Biden may have served under a black man. A black woman could possible serve under him. But what unites Biden, Harris and Obama. Not to mention every single President from Nixon to Bush that Biden served under in the US Senate, is that they are pro-corporations and pro rich people. Policies that would actually lift people out of poverty like affordable healthcare and college and UBI are anathema to them. Between Biden and Trump, Biden is the more dangerous candidate because he doesn't understand why people voted for Trump. Biden like Trump will continue to push policies that will cause people to live economically uncertain and unstable lives. But Biden will chastise them if they express racism. If I were an American I would honestly vote for Trump, not because I'm a racist, but for what the Democratic Party did to Bernie Sanders. The Democrats need to learn a lesson. Their party's future lies with the path paved by Bernie Sanders and those like him. Not with smug people like Pete Buttigieg and all these Never Trump / Lincoln Project Republicans. Edited October 30, 2020 by CallAfterLife 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, CallAfterLife said: I think the sort of middle ground between both your opinions is that both Trump and Biden express their racism in the America but in different ways. I'm honestly not sure that Trump is racist to his core. The bulk of his support comes from demographics that were racist long before he came along in 2016 and so he panders to those groups and in a lot of ways has adopted their way of thinking. Biden meanwhile is not only responsible for the 1994 crime bill that has disproportionately hurt communities of colour by sending individuals to prison for minor drug possession charges. But also had a hand in numerous pieces of neoliberal legislation that has economically depressed and alienated the groups that now support Trump away from the Democratic Party. Midwestern parts of America have traditionally voted for Democrats because they've been pro-worker. But have now turned away from the Democratic Party because they believe Trump will bring their jobs back. Many of those voters lost their jobs under Bush and never recovered under Obama. Trump is dangerous right now because he's radicalizing a lot of people. But Biden was responsible for the conditions that made people susceptible to Trump's radical message. I guess to use a farming analogy. Biden has worked the soil and but Trump is now watering the seeds. Biden was a US Senator when Ronald Reagan was President and started perpetuating the myth of the black welfare queen. Biden didn't push back against that myth. Biden was also against desegregating public schools. An issue his very own VP pick Kamala Harris attacked him on in the primary. Biden may have served under a black man. A black woman could possible serve under him. But what unites Biden, Harris and Obama. Not to mention every single President from Nixon to Bush that Biden served under in the US Senate, is that they are pro-corporations and pro rich people. Policies that would actually lift people out of poverty like affordable healthcare and college and UBI are anathema to them. Between Biden and Trump, Biden is the more dangerous candidate because he doesn't understand why people voted for Trump. Biden like Trump will continue to push policies that will cause people to live economically uncertain and unstable lives. But Biden will chastise them if they express racism. If I were an American I would honestly vote for Trump, not because I'm a racist, but for what the Democratic Party did to Bernie Sanders. The Democrats need to learn a lesson. Their party's future lies with the path paved by Bernie Sanders and those like him. Not with smug people like Pete Buttigieg and all these Never Trump / Lincoln Project Republicans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucard Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Trump handled covid so bad,still does, it is baffling how he still has a shot which says lots about dems being so weak. Let`s all have a drink and chill together,social distancing of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucard Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 talking about the coyotes pick, why he did not apologize? that`s baffling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: If you believe that, I don't think you've taken a very close look at Joe Biden. Dude.... no one is perfect right?? I wish Obama got a twin to come run... Between Trump and Biden, who can you really choose?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 hours ago, BENN said: talking about the coyotes pick, why he did not apologize? that`s baffling. Did you mean Miller himself to the victim's family?? could be a number of reasons... a) he's a natural born devil - he thinks he can survive the social pressure and keep on his own way b) his own racist mom didn't support it c) his lawyers advised him not to in order to avoid potential lawsuits in future 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: Then I don't think you've looked independently and honestly at the words and policies of both candidates, from their own mouths and actions. And the manner in which you immediately end the discussion there suggests the emotional reaction of a partisan that isn't interested in actual evidence or discussion. Trump wasn't mentored by a KKK exalted cyclops. Biden was. His mentors in government were Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond. And that's just for starters. But like you said, we can discontinue. TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.... Trump has blatantly backed the proud boys "stand down, stand by!" and never made an effort to support diversity and social justice.... and u sounded like Trump isn't so bad so he deserves to be re-elected.... Barring any accidents... Biden will get elected!! most Americans have had enough of the shame and embarrassment caused by Trump! Hilary lost by a thread coz she was over-confident... Trump won't be so lucky this time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategal Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/6740945-Mitchell-Miller-no-longer-a-part-of-UND-hockey-team UND has dropped him from their hockey program but he can continue there as a student. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, skategal said: https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/6740945-Mitchell-Miller-no-longer-a-part-of-UND-hockey-team UND has dropped him from their hockey program but he can continue there as a student. That's great news!!!! Sucks that they have no grounds to expel him once and for all... but I think Miller should be feeling it now walking around campus! ^^ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Sadly, I believe being dropped as an NHL prospect and kicked off his NCAA team should send a FAR greater message throughout the hockey community about racism/bullying in North America than any type of rehabilitation of this young man would ever have done. Kids at every level of hockey (sport in general) should take notice - what this Miller individual did is UNACCEPTABLE at any age/level of sport and there WILL be consequences for your actions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Screw said: Do you mean people who kill children or children who have killed? Either way.. The justice system is evidence that Canadian society believes that people are able to change. Even criminals. Thus, we have a systems of reform and rehabilitation outlined in the laws. I do believe that a even racist bully at 14, 15 or 16 is capable of creating change in his life and becoming a better person. I do not accept the "throw this person away" mentality. You don't fight racism, homophobia etcetera by turning your back to it. You then reinforce this kid continues in a path towards becoming a bigoted adult. You are failing to see the real issue this racist entitled 18 year old to this day refused to apologize to the boy’s family or your loving blue sky world is an18 year old racist entitled punk also a child? would you have the same opinion if this event happened to your child? Ask yourself that this punk is getting karma rolling at him now in a big way and it’s well deserved Now was booted off the ND hockey team poor child, maybe you can adopt him and help him reform? Edited October 30, 2020 by canuck2288 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, BENN said: talking about the coyotes pick, why he did not apologize? that`s baffling. Because he is a a racist entitled punk who is only concerned about himself he is not ashamed about what he did he is ashamed it is costing him a potential career in hockey bottom line, he wrote a letter to all teams imploring them to draft him as he has seen error in his ways yet he could not go and apologize to the child’s parents I hope he rots in hell when he gets there once a racist bully always a racist bully, “maturity” just moves it underground Edited October 30, 2020 by canuck2288 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, skategal said: https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/6740945-Mitchell-Miller-no-longer-a-part-of-UND-hockey-team UND has dropped him from their hockey program but he can continue there as a student. Quite a turnaround from their statement just days ago: It’s the right decision. Miller has not done anything close to enough to show true remorse and prove that he’s really changed, or even wants to change. Still, I was optimistic that he’d benefit from being on that UND team, which has a good group of players (as I’ve discussed in earlier posts) that could hopefully rub off on Miller and help him learn to be a better man. However, at this point in time, he really hasn’t done anything to really redeem himself or to demonstrate that he actually deserves that kind of opportunity (other than complying with what’s been mandated by the court, and taking part in his teams’ community service initiatives, like every player does). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategal Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I find it disturbing as others have pointed out that in all this it doesn't appear that adults in his life - coaches, parents, agents, teachers were able (or willing?) to provide him with support/instruction on how to redeem himself and learn from his mistakes. Other than the letter he sent to all the NHL teams pre-draft, it doesn't appear that he's done anything other than the court mandated activities to learn from his mistakes. Makes one wonder about peoples values. It's not like it was a one time incident, the bullying went on for years, I'm sure there were complaints to the school staff and administrators. To end up in the courts, his family beyond his parents, coaches and future agents would have been aware as well. Any/all of these people could have done so much to help him redeem himself before his world came crashing down around him and they carry a certain portion of blame regarding the probable loss of an NHL career. He may still make it to pro in a lesser league and it's possible at some point he makes it back to the NHL but right now I'm sure he's crushed. Hopefully this is a huge learning opportunity for him and not a point that turns him further in the opposite direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Quite a turnaround from their statement just days ago: It’s the right decision. Miller has not done anything close to enough to show true remorse and prove that he’s really changed, or even wants to change. Still, I was optimistic that he’d benefit from being on that UND team, which has a good group of players (as I’ve discussed in earlier posts) that could hopefully rub off on Miller and help him learn to be a better man. However, at this point in time, he really hasn’t done anything to really redeem himself or to demonstrate that he actually deserves that kind of opportunity (other than complying with what’s been mandated by the court, and taking part in his teams’ community service initiatives, like every player does). This is the right decision and probably the best decision UND could have made in this situation. They give Mitchell Miller the opportunity to get a degree and build upon that degree to find a career outside of hockey while also not having him have the benefit of playing on the UND hockey team. The question now will be if Mitchell Miller takes this opportunity and uses it to make himself a better person and harness this educational opportunity or if he'll try to go to a lower tier hockey program (probably NCAA II or USports) to further his now stalled hockey career. I don't suspect that any reputable hockey program, from here on out, will allow him to be on their roster. I think his time for redemption comes off the ice. I don't think he should or will get a chance to "redeem" himself on the ice. The on ice stuff was never the problem here. It was always the off ice stuff. Stepping away from hockey to focus on his personal development is the best thing he can do for himself right now. Though, UND should not get any kudos for making the right decision here (they should have never allowed him on the team to begin with), I do commend them for at least giving him the chance to continue his education. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePointblank Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Quantum said: This is the right decision and probably the best decision UND could have made in this situation. They give Mitchell Miller the opportunity to get a degree and build upon that degree to find a career outside of hockey while also not having him have the benefit of playing on the UND hockey team. The question now will be if Mitchell Miller takes this opportunity and uses it to make himself a better person and harness this educational opportunity or if he'll try to go to a lower tier hockey program (probably NCAA II or USports) to further his now stalled hockey career. I don't suspect that any reputable hockey program, from here on out, will allow him to be on their roster. I think his time for redemption comes off the ice. I don't think he should or will get a chance to "redeem" himself on the ice. The on ice stuff was never the problem here. It was always the off ice stuff. Stepping away from hockey to focus on his personal development is the best thing he can do for himself right now. Though, UND should not get any kudos for making the right decision here (they should have never allowed him on the team to begin with), I do commend them for at least giving him the chance to continue his education. I wonder what sort of information UND had at the time they made their original decision. If all they had to make a decision was based off of what Miller told them, plus maybe some people from his junior league that had good impressions on him, I can see how the original decision came about. But if they knew everything from the start, that is a bigger issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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