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Coyotes' 'top' (4th round) draft pick of 2020 was a convict four years ago for bullying.

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3 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

for sure its good this kid told his story. In fact it might be the thing that helps Miller. 

 

My concern here is breaking the cycle of this kind of thing, Miller either picked it up somewhere or maybe he's a sociopath. But if he's just a kid with bad parents .e.g, I hope he gets what he needs to stop being an abuser. 

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Good posts RL

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1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

what happened to the kid in this story is horrible, there's nothing to defend in Millers behaviour. What bothers me is how fast we are now to throw him away for life for something he did as a child. We don't know if he's an abused kid himself, or just an asshole. Either way he's still a teen, and sometimes brain development takes time. Its hard not to look at Miller in disgust, but isn't he a kid that needs help too? I mean who does that without having something broken that needs fixing too? 

 

The concern for me is if we throw Miller away, he gets no help. What kind of parent is that guy going to be if that happens? there's a lot of things to take into considerations with stories like this, isnt there?

 

Or he's just a complete piece of human garbage. It's true we don't know if he was abused. But if he hasn't apologized or shown the least remorse for his actions we must conclude he's trash. He is 18 and officially a young adult. So as for getting help, who's responsibility is that? Mine? Yours? His parents? Or him? Honestly, I'm more concerned for his victim(s?). What kind of parent might Isaiah grow up to be due to this abuse he's suffered?

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I know of a story.

 

Two older brother picked on the friend of their much younger brother. Tied that kid up naked on a pool table at a party and picked on him.

 

 

One of the older brothers runs a company many years later. Does charitable stuff, a philanthropist.  If not reformed, he does good?  The other brother. Remained self absorbed. Not directly related at all committed suicide in a surprising fashion. 

 

That kid is doing fine i can tell u.  That brother is the one who really needed the help.

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1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

what happened to the kid in this story is horrible, there's nothing to defend in Millers behaviour. What bothers me is how fast we are now to throw him away for life for something he did as a child. We don't know if he's an abused kid himself, or just an asshole. Either way he's still a teen, and sometimes brain development takes time. Its hard not to look at Miller in disgust, but isn't he a kid that needs help too? I mean who does that without having something broken that needs fixing too? 

 

The concern for me is if we throw Miller away, he gets no help. What kind of parent is that guy going to be if that happens? there's a lot of things to take into considerations with stories like this, isnt there?

 

It's a valid view. We don't know his history, and I'm not really sure we as fans are entitled to knowing. There is also the fact that despite his behavior, which seems to disgust most of us, he was a kid/young teenager when this was ongoing. Male brains aren't fully developed til roughly the later twenties, should we tar and feather him for the rest of his life because of something that took place when he was fifteen years old tops? I don't really think you can look at this with the same lens you'd look at an adult offender with, because he was 14-15 with a lot of personal/biological development ahead of him. 

 

I think it's important to consider him, because in the age of the internet and the likely (come on, we know how sports fans can be online) backlash that comes with the surfacing of this story there's no way it doesn't impact a guy who's about to turn 19. Does he get death threats? Is he in turn bullied? Does his past behavior somehow justify people going out of their way to burn down every opportunity in front of him for the rest of his life? That might be an exaggeration, but in the age of modern media and how easily one can be googled, is it? One could argue those are just the consequences of his actions I suppose.

 

Dude &^@#ed up, no question. But should he be defined by something he did as a child/younger teenager forever? Of course teams have to consider it from an optics view, I get that. And fans, including myself, may not be keen on the idea of having him on our team or in our room. Those are understandable things, but do we kangaroo court him via media both social and more official?

 

There are lots of things to take into consideration with a scenario like this, if only on an ethical level. 

Edited by Coconuts
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1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

what happened to the kid in this story is horrible, there's nothing to defend in Millers behaviour. What bothers me is how fast we are now to throw him away for life for something he did as a child. We don't know if he's an abused kid himself, or just an asshole. Either way he's still a teen, and sometimes brain development takes time. Its hard not to look at Miller in disgust, but isn't he a kid that needs help too? I mean who does that without having something broken that needs fixing too? 

 

The concern for me is if we throw Miller away, he gets no help. What kind of parent is that guy going to be if that happens? there's a lot of things to take into considerations with stories like this, isnt there?

 

Many schools and extracurriculars actively promote anti-bullying, genuine acceptance beyond tolerance for individuality and differences, treating others how you and how they would like to be treated, etc.  I don't think these "mistakes" come down to ignorance or youth.  I mean, you don't accidentally target somebody for a period of years because you don't know any better; you do so because you can get away with it when you're surrounded by passive peers, a seemingly passive school administration, and when your victim is unable to defend themselves in an effective manner, much like the victim in this situation.

 

Even if we are to entertain the possibility that he had some underlying issues, why not bring them to surface and say his behaviour may have been a result of whatever he was dealing with?

 

NHL teams asked him about this story.  He declined to comment or elaborate on these incidents.  In addition to that, he's never personally apologized to the victim himself.  This does not scream a young man that's genuinely resentful or learning from the situation.

 

You talk about Miller's future but what about the future of the victim?  The worst thing that could have happened to Miller was being denied a future in professional hockey, like as if that isn't already the future for so many minor hockey players.  Not to mention, think of how many talented players get passed up because of size, motivation, character, etc without disgusting pasts.  The victim, while already having to face the challenges of being a POC and disabled, has to deal with years of abuse & the aftereffects, and now lives in a reality where his abuser was just granted a career opportunity to achieve a great deal of wealth and notoriety.

 

Miller's life without hockey is just that - a life without hockey.  He might have a reputation that follows but he certainly won't be passed over for employment opportunities, or relationships, or any other part of his life.  The victim cannot say the same.

 

Nobody wants the kid thrown away or sent to some purgatory that's void of forgiveness.  There's just noticeable outrage that a $&!#ty person isn't being held accountable for their actions and how the minimum punishment (which would have been teams doing the ethical and moral thing by passing up on this guy) wasn't even given.

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Here's another thing. If he were to personally reach out and apologize, and try to take accountability, would people even accept it now that the story has taken on a life of it's own? Or would they write it off as him bowing to public pressure and him trying to preserve a chance at a sports career? Would it be wrong if he were genuinely trying to make things right while acting out of self-interest? Particularly as a guy who'll only be turning 19 in December?

 

Does the continued life of such a story really do anything for the victim or the abuser? Is it about them or is it about the hockey community on some level as well?

Edited by Coconuts
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He is a right D prospect that played for team USA in multiple tournaments. Someone was going to take a chance on him, makes sense it being the team with nothing to lose. 

 

Hopefully he truly has learned from his mistakes and is a better human being. 

 

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This almost reminds me of the time Pittsburgh had a convicted rapist Billy Tibbets on their team.  I have no idea how a national hockey league team can fathom having guys with such low character around their players.  Hockey players are of a different breed and theres no way they want to be around guys like this, let alone go to war with them.    

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

He is a right D prospect that played for team USA in multiple tournaments. Someone was going to take a chance on him, makes sense it being the team with nothing to lose. 

 

Hopefully he truly has learned from his mistakes and is a better human being. 

 

They blew the draft pick.  With this story breaking, hes going to get a constant physical and mental thrashing from opposing players.  

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We all did stupid things in our life that we regret including myself.

Yes, 14 year old brains are not fully developed yet.

 

At the same time what they did is pretty damn awful, especially the urinal part.

With that being said........honestly I don’t know what to say!

 

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6 hours ago, Robert Long said:

This is a no-win story. 

 

But I don't know that we really want to live in a society that can't allow a 14 year old to learn from a mistake.

While I agree, the fact he hasn't yet apologized is pretty telling of his character (or lack thereof) 

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4 hours ago, Robert Long said:

what happened to the kid in this story is horrible, there's nothing to defend in Millers behaviour. What bothers me is how fast we are now to throw him away for life for something he did as a child. We don't know if he's an abused kid himself, or just an asshole. Either way he's still a teen, and sometimes brain development takes time. Its hard not to look at Miller in disgust, but isn't he a kid that needs help too? I mean who does that without having something broken that needs fixing too? 

 

The concern for me is if we throw Miller away, he gets no help. What kind of parent is that guy going to be if that happens? there's a lot of things to take into considerations with stories like this, isnt there?

 

Wisdom is priceless. 

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5 hours ago, Robert Long said:

what happened to the kid in this story is horrible, there's nothing to defend in Millers behaviour. What bothers me is how fast we are now to throw him away for life for something he did as a child. We don't know if he's an abused kid himself, or just an asshole. Either way he's still a teen, and sometimes brain development takes time. Its hard not to look at Miller in disgust, but isn't he a kid that needs help too? I mean who does that without having something broken that needs fixing too? 

 

The concern for me is if we throw Miller away, he gets no help. What kind of parent is that guy going to be if that happens? there's a lot of things to take into considerations with stories like this, isnt there?

 

Good point(s).  Imo, fans should stay out of this and let the affected parties deal with this sad situation themselves - privately.  Assuming, he makes it to pro hockey (NHL or somewhere else), there is a good chance that he will be asked about this situation by someone in the locker room or etc- either way, he will be dealing with this situation.  Perhaps in time both parties can find some common ground and finally move on with each one of there lives.

 

Kudo's on Meyers-Crothers for speaking up !!! Hopefully, by speaking up, his healing can finally start and he can move on with his life - despite what Miller will or not do....   

 

 

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

We all did stupid things in our life that we regret including myself.

Yes, 14 year old brains are not fully developed yet.

 

At the same time what they did is pretty damn awful, especially the urinal part.

With that being said........honestly I don’t know what to say!

 

I'd say that 99% of 14 year olds don't bully a mentally developmental challenged kid so badly that he needs to get an HIV test because of what he was put through. Throw on top of the fact that the same kid also had untold amount of N-bombs thrown his way by Mitchell Miller and that this all happened less than 5 years ago and it's pretty easy to say that's it not okay. And that his bullying lasted for years is another huge problem. This wasn't an isolated incident. It was systematic and patterned.

 

I'm so tired of hearing this "but he was 14 years old" argument. Yeah, I did stupid stuff at 14 but my stupid stuff involving throwing rocks at trees, sneaking beers, and stay out too late with my friends -- it wasn't tormenting a kid. I mean, it was so bad that he got convicted for bullying! When do you hear of that happening?!? At 14 you should know the difference between right and wrong and you should know what the hell bullying is.

 

It's a privilege to be a paid athlete. There's a kid who didn't get drafted this year that has so much more talent and character than this kid and he might have been not drafted because of something stupid like "size" (think Stecher). I'd take Stecher 10 out of 10 times over a scumbag like Mitchell Miller.

 

It's been well documented that this kid was seen as undraftable by most of the league because of his character issues. He's only really apologizing now because there's a huge spotlight on what he did, who he did it too, and how he conducted himself after it was discovered what he did. He's only sorry because he got caught, he's not sorry for his actions.

 

On top of this, guys like Josh Ho-Sang, Evander Kane, Akim Aliu, Anthony Duclair, and countless other players of color have all got slammed for having "character issues" in the past. Ho-Sang because he was "cocky" at his draft, Akim for standing up to Bill Peters and for not accepting "hazing" (aka just older kids bullying younger kids), Duclair has been traded countless times and doesn't have a contract despite having had a career year in Ottawa. There's lots of examples.

 

The Arizona Coyotes silence on Mitchell is also pretty damning. The fact that they haven't released any sort of official statement is alarming and should be noted. Same goes for The University of North Dakota where Mitchell is set to play as a freshmen. It really stains an otherwise great hockey program. That's the same program that has produced guys like Jonathan Toews, Brock Boeser, Troy Stecher, TJ Oshie, Travis Zajac, Ryan Johnson, Brock Nelson, etc... all upstanding NHLers both on and off the ice -- and this program wants Mitchell Miller?!? The Sarnia Sting should also be put on blast for drafting him 62nd overall in the OHL draft hoping to lure Miller to the OHL instead of going the NCAA route. Do they get a pass?!?

 

It'll be interesting to see what kind of fallout happens in the next few days. The pressure seems to be mounting and it wouldn't shock me if Mitchell Miller is forced to leave UND and the Coyotes relinquish his rights.

 

But yeah, you should know what to say and it's to say that what this kid did was despicable, no matter the age, being an NHLer is a privilege and not a right, and until he really shows real remorse for his actions he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the NHL ranks of hockey. It's pretty cut and dry.

 

 

Edited by Quantum
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31 minutes ago, Quantum said:

I'd say that 99% of 14 year olds don't bully a mentally developmental challenged kid so badly that he needs to get an HIV test because of what he was put through. Throw on top of the fact that the same kid also had untold amount of N-bombs thrown his way by Mitchell Miller and that this all happened less than 5 years ago and it's pretty easy to say that's it not okay. And that his bullying lasted for years is another huge problem. This wasn't an isolated incident. It was systematic and patterned.

 

I'm so tired of hearing this "but he was 14 years old" argument. Yeah, I did stupid stuff at 14 but my stupid stuff involving throwing rocks at trees, sneaking beers, and stay out too late with my friends -- it wasn't tormenting a kid. I mean, it was so bad that he got convicted for bullying! When do you hear of that happening?!? At 14 you should know the difference between right and wrong and you should know what the hell bullying is.

 

It's a privilege to be a paid athlete. There's a kid who didn't get drafted this year that has so much more talent and character than this kid and he might have been not drafted because of something stupid like "size" (think Stecher). I'd take Stecher 10 out of 10 times over a scumbag like Mitchell Miller.

 

It's been well documented that this kid was seen as undraftable by most of the league because of his character issues. He's only really apologizing now because there's a huge spotlight on what he did, who he did it too, and how he conducted himself after it was discovered what he did. He's only sorry because he got caught, he's not sorry for his actions.

 

On top of this, guys like Josh Ho-Sang, Evander Kane, Akim Aliu, Anthony Duclair, and countless other players of color have all got slammed for having "character issues" in the past. Ho-Sang because he was "cocky" at his draft, Akim for standing up to Bill Peters and for not accepting "hazing" (aka just older kids bullying younger kids), Duclair has been traded countless times and doesn't have a contract despite having had a career year in Ottawa. There's lots of examples.

 

The Arizona Coyotes silence on Mitchell is also pretty damning. The fact that they haven't released any sort of official statement is alarming and should be noted. Same goes for The University of North Dakota where Mitchell is set to play as a freshmen. It really stains an otherwise great hockey program. That's the same program that has produced guys like Jonathan Toews, Brock Boeser, Troy Stecher, TJ Oshie, Travis Zajac, Ryan Johnson, Brock Nelson, etc... all upstanding NHLers both on and off the ice -- and this program wants Mitchell Miller?!? The Sarnia Sting should also be put on blast for drafting him 62nd overall in the OHL draft hoping to lure Miller to the OHL instead of going the NCAA route. Do they get a pass?!?

 

It'll be interesting to see what kind of fallout happens in the next few days. The pressure seems to be mounting and it wouldn't shock me if Mitchell Miller is forced to leave UND and the Coyotes relinquish his rights.

 

But yeah, you should know what to say and it's to say that what this kid did was despicable, no matter the age, being an NHLer is a privilege and not a right, and until he really shows real remorse for his actions he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the NHL ranks of hockey. It's pretty cut and dry.

 

 

His/this story is now very public and there is no place for him to hide (especially, if so keen on becoming a pro hockey player).  Imo, let's give the Coyotes a chance and see what they can do to help both parties gain some closure..   

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3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Here's another thing. If he were to personally reach out and apologize, and try to take accountability, would people even accept it now that the story has taken on a life of it's own? Or would they write it off as him bowing to public pressure and him trying to preserve a chance at a sports career? Would it be wrong if he were genuinely trying to make things right while acting out of self-interest? Particularly as a guy who'll only be turning 19 in December?

 

Does the continued life of such a story really do anything for the victim or the abuser? Is it about them or is it about the hockey community on some level as well?

He’s had years to apologize and hasn’t. 
 

its 100000000% a publicity act if he does it because he got publically shamed.

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1 hour ago, Quantum said:

I'd say that 99% of 14 year olds don't bully a mentally developmental challenged kid so badly that he needs to get an HIV test because of what he was put through. Throw on top of the fact that the same kid also had untold amount of N-bombs thrown his way by Mitchell Miller and that this all happened less than 5 years ago and it's pretty easy to say that's it not okay. And that his bullying lasted for years is another huge problem. This wasn't an isolated incident. It was systematic and patterned.

 

I'm so tired of hearing this "but he was 14 years old" argument. Yeah, I did stupid stuff at 14 but my stupid stuff involving throwing rocks at trees, sneaking beers, and stay out too late with my friends -- it wasn't tormenting a kid. I mean, it was so bad that he got convicted for bullying! When do you hear of that happening?!? At 14 you should know the difference between right and wrong and you should know what the hell bullying is.

 

It's a privilege to be a paid athlete. There's a kid who didn't get drafted this year that has so much more talent and character than this kid and he might have been not drafted because of something stupid like "size" (think Stecher). I'd take Stecher 10 out of 10 times over a scumbag like Mitchell Miller.

 

It's been well documented that this kid was seen as undraftable by most of the league because of his character issues. He's only really apologizing now because there's a huge spotlight on what he did, who he did it too, and how he conducted himself after it was discovered what he did. He's only sorry because he got caught, he's not sorry for his actions.

 

On top of this, guys like Josh Ho-Sang, Evander Kane, Akim Aliu, Anthony Duclair, and countless other players of color have all got slammed for having "character issues" in the past. Ho-Sang because he was "cocky" at his draft, Akim for standing up to Bill Peters and for not accepting "hazing" (aka just older kids bullying younger kids), Duclair has been traded countless times and doesn't have a contract despite having had a career year in Ottawa. There's lots of examples.

 

The Arizona Coyotes silence on Mitchell is also pretty damning. The fact that they haven't released any sort of official statement is alarming and should be noted. Same goes for The University of North Dakota where Mitchell is set to play as a freshmen. It really stains an otherwise great hockey program. That's the same program that has produced guys like Jonathan Toews, Brock Boeser, Troy Stecher, TJ Oshie, Travis Zajac, Ryan Johnson, Brock Nelson, etc... all upstanding NHLers both on and off the ice -- and this program wants Mitchell Miller?!? The Sarnia Sting should also be put on blast for drafting him 62nd overall in the OHL draft hoping to lure Miller to the OHL instead of going the NCAA route. Do they get a pass?!?

 

It'll be interesting to see what kind of fallout happens in the next few days. The pressure seems to be mounting and it wouldn't shock me if Mitchell Miller is forced to leave UND and the Coyotes relinquish his rights.

 

But yeah, you should know what to say and it's to say that what this kid did was despicable, no matter the age, being an NHLer is a privilege and not a right, and until he really shows real remorse for his actions he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the NHL ranks of hockey. It's pretty cut and dry.

 

 

I think I said what the kid did was awful, I am just not sure at the moment what should be done.

You said he should apologize, does that negate the fact what he did?

Xavier Gutierrez who is the first Latino CEO thinks this kid should be given a second chance.

 

Mitchell says that he apologized, his victim says he is lying, do you know which one is telling the truth?

If this happened in Canada, you would never hear about  because the kid is 14, his name would be not be released and he wouldn’t be convicted. 
 

So as said, it was awful what he did, but I don’t know at the moment what should be done.

Unlike every Tom, Dick and Harry on the internet that thinks they know everything, I hope that’s ok with you.

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