Mike Vanderhoek Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Tony Romo said: I see all those points, and parity is the goal, I just think that the salary cap and market mechanism work better than league interference. This is with the caveat that every team has an active GM. Also you all may be better than me, but I think trading around and stacking a roster is harder than you make it sound! For example I was accused of tanking a couple years ago and that prompted me to trade a 1st, some other futures and Mark Stone (still a prospect at the time) for players that would save my job for that year. Obviously I am not blaming anyone for my incompetence, I should have ignored the friendly advice from the league, no one forced me to do it per say, and you can point to how bad my roster was at the time and a bunch of other circumstances, just an example that comes to mind. I think you are always knocking on the door to competing in the Playoffs, I respect teams with patience on players and building up. It gets harder year after year to try and keep a strong team by selling youth and futures every year to get that deep team. Pressure to keep the window open. I think it may come off as League interference when its noticeable instances that are brought up. After a decade here its clear next to no team will willingly take a step back to balance their roster. But as sharpshooter brought up a concern over teams with two starters, its a concern by a member so its owed to the collective to look into it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Its nice to have extra kicks at the can to find a good draft pick but when you start getting into the teens or more of picks.......its like ok you can only sign so many players. I used to razz Colorado for not getting a full 23 man roster as he insisted he was rebuilding.....but that was maybe over one season at most. But whether you are trying to open dialogue with a team who might be pushing the envelope with too many top end players out of place or a team with next to no NHL players most times the reaction is defensive lol. Like you have 6 nhl roster spots available and 23 drat picks " i dont want to sacrifice youth or add an old player over 22 yrs old " Or hey you have two legit NHL starters after the 1/3 way point of the season should look at possibly moving off one " i like my team as is thanks, he is starting now because of an injury " You have 9 top 6 forwards " you mean i have depth " They all involve context but the reactions are always the same haha. I agree with @Tony Romo in that if you're able to build a roster that is "stacked" within the cap boundaries or luck out because players have excelled and taken their game to another level giving a team more "depth", that should indeed be a reward for a GM that is able to do so. So I believe what he is saying is that if we are basing on making it as "real" as possible, you don't see top end teams needing to sell off players because their team is too good, but losing quality will occur when the team is too good for too long and the cap forces them to make moves. It is the challenge for other GMs to keep up until eventually their reign will end due to cap or not having the assets to compete with other team's offers. But again, I haven't been in this league long enough to know how difficult it really is to topple the giants. I think it's much more easier to blatantly tank than it is to build a long term stacked roster though. Icing a full roster really shouldn't be a challenge though. I've been rejected far too often with my free agent offers to know there are plenty of moderately decent players that could be signed with relative ease. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: I used to razz Colorado for not getting a full 23 man roster as he insisted he was rebuilding.....but that was maybe over one season at most. Pretty sure I had a 23 (not very good ) man roster my whole time here (perhaps only shy of that at times with injuries). Heck, even this year I haven't had a healthy 23 man roster every night given injuries, Covid protocols etc. And I have comparative depth out the whazoo vs my rebuilding years with legacy contracts, and overpriced UFAs Edited February 24, 2021 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) SIGNING: The Vegas Golden Knights have signed Arthur Kaliyev to a three-year entry-level deal. Arthur Kaliyev: 3 years, $3,150,000 million dollar contract ($900,000 base salary and $150,000 bonuses per season - $1,050,000 AAV) SIGNING: The Vegas Golden Knights have signed John Beecher to a three-year entry-level deal. John Beecher: 3 years, $2,625,000 million dollar contract ($875,000 per season - $875,000 AAV) SIGNING: The Vegas Golden Knights have signed Jackson Lacombe to a three-year entry-level deal. Jackson Lacombe: 3 years, $3,300,000 million dollar contract ($900,000 base salary and $200,000 bonuses per season - $1,100,000 AAV) SIGNING: The Vegas Golden Knights have signed Marshall Warren to a three-year entry-level deal. Marshall Warren: 3 years, $2,700,000 million dollar contract ($900,000 per season - $900,000 AAV) SIGNING: The Vegas Golden Knights have signed Jayden Struble to a three-year entry-level deal. Jayden Struble: 3 years, $2,850,000 million dollar contract ($950,000 per season - $950,000 AAV) Edited February 24, 2021 by aGENT 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tony Romo said: I see all those points, and parity is the goal, I just think that the salary cap and market mechanism work better than league interference. This is with the caveat that every team has an active GM. Also you all may be better than me, but I think trading around and stacking a roster is harder than you make it sound! For example I was accused of tanking a couple years ago and that prompted me to trade a 1st, some other futures and Mark Stone (still a prospect at the time) for players that would save my job for that year. Obviously I am not blaming anyone for my incompetence, I should have ignored the friendly advice from the league, no one forced me to do it per say, and you can point to how bad my roster was at the time and a bunch of other circumstances, just an example that comes to mind. Um... That particular year you turned your bottom feeder into a contender... I remember this clearly because I personally called you out on the thread. I followed this by commending you for a terrific organizational turn around in the thread, and I also voted you for GM of the year that year. Stacking a team IS that easy, and I was in a position to have such disciplinary discussions with the league only a year or two after taking over the worst team in the league. I had never had a fantasy team before, never been in a pool before and could name about 10 Canucks when I started (a noob of noobs). A good GM can overload with ease by managing assets well, a bad GM can do it at the expense of other less knowledgeable players or at the expense of the future of the organization. All three are not ok. You keep saying that salary cap line... that’s fine, and that is every other fantasy league on the planet. There are tons to choose from... a dime a dozen. It is not however the GML, nor what it was designed for, nor where it’s headed. The rules have been the same since you joined, with very few changes... we are actually a bit more relaxed now in all honesty, because we aren’t being tested constantly by immature jerks. Enjoy this game, and never expect it to be like any other you have played. Play until you aren’t having fun. Edited February 24, 2021 by greensman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, greensman said: Um... That particular year you turned your bottom feeder into a contender... I remember this clearly because I personally called you out on the thread. I followed this by commending you for a terrific organizational turn around, and I voted you for GM of the year that year. Stacking a team is that easy, and I was in a position to have discussion. With the league only a year or two after taking over the worst team in the league. A good GM can do it responsibly, a bad GM can do it at the expense of other less knowledgeable players or at the expense of the future of the organization. You keep saying that salary cap line... that’s fine, and that is every other fantasy league on the planet. There are tons to choose from... a dime a dozen. It is not however the GML, nor what it was designed for, nor where it’s headed. The rules have been the same since you joined, with very few changes... we are actually a bit more relaxed now in all honesty, because we aren’t being tested constantly by immature jerks. I barely snuck in the playoffs because mackinnon got rookie of the year and those 50 points got me in, then got bounced in the 1st round hahah. I think my team would have been better of long term if I would have stayed the course. I personally believe that was my biggest mistake as a GM and I am paying for that still. But that is just a matter of team building philosophy. Also shows how subjective team building is. alright who here thinks stacking a team is easy hahah I can’t be the only one that thinks it is extremely difficult. also I think the gms(consider y’all my friends) and the realism and the competitiveness make the league. I don’t think the league telling New Jersey that his 3rd line is too good and he should consider moving someone or that Toronto has too many picks and he should trade a pick for a player is what makes the league for me. I also don’t think “this is how it’s always been done” is a good reason to keep something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share Posted February 24, 2021 Why do you guys always have these long debates while I’m at work and pecking away at a phone!?!? Gah!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Romo said: I also don’t think “this is how it’s always been done” is a good reason to keep something. I believe what I said was, this is what makes be proud to be a GM in the league, it’s what sets us apart from other leagues and it’s literally the reason I joined in the first place. I don’t believe I ever said what you put in quotes at all... why are you using quotes? Not my words. I've now had teams in other leagues... none of them compare to this experience... and that’s all brought to you by the way we do business here. Your team wasn’t even a full roster when I called you out... it was embarrassing. You were in jeopardy of losing your team... these parts are all true. You should not regret icing a complete roster, as that is the bare minimum to stay in the league. Which NHL organization has survived in history without being able to ice a full roster for a good half season without injury issues... how long would that GM get to keep his job? Not icing a team means you aren’t a GM, so I’m not sure about your regrets... you wouldn’t have been a factor for your team at all from outside the league. I personally strongly disagree with your recollection of that year you turned your organization around, and I wasn’t the only person to vote you for best GM that year... you did a great job, and your team looked great. May have been your best year... my opinion of course, but also my job to watch (I was exec responsible for monitoring your division). Edited February 24, 2021 by greensman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da.moose Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Report: The Washington Capitals are shopping Matt Murray and teams interested should inquire sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, greensman said: I believe what I said was, this is what makes be proud to be a GM in the league, it’s what sets us apart from other leagues and it’s literally the reason I joined in the first place. I don’t believe I ever said what you put in quotes at all... why are you using quotes? Not my words. I've now had teams in other leagues... none of them compare to this experience... and that’s all brought to you by the way we do business here. Your team wasn’t even a full roster when I called you out... it was embarrassing. You were in jeopardy of losing your team... that part was very true. You should not regret icing a complete roster, as that is the bare minimum to stay in the league. Which NHL organization has survived in history without being able to ice a full roster for a good half season without injury issues... how long would that GM get to keep his job? I’m shocked you think it was worth it for me to sacrifice the future to lose in the 1st round. I should have stuck to my philosophy, yes I should have iced a full roster, but trading away good assets for aging assets just to lose in the first round wasn’t worth it, in my opinion. I should have just traded some late picks for some 4th liners. You may think differently. Just like You may think it was worth trading for toffoli, I do not. But that just shows how subjective team building is, and I think there are dangers in giving the executives too much power in determining how people build their teams. Isn’t that the reason we never veto trades? (Which I agree with) apologies shouldn’t have put it in quotes. I’m not gonna tell you how to feel, so if you feel that those rules are what sets this league apart then fair. I personally do not feel that way. I feel this is the exact same league as CDCFL with gms I’m closer with. And we don’t have a starting goalie list, which I love, but I lost this argument in CDCFL as well. Edited February 24, 2021 by Tony Romo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Los Angeles Kings could use a starting goaltender... All this goalie chat has me realizing that it’s time for some hard accounting... 14-22 games played by each team in the NHL so far, and my two goalies account for 14 games... I’ve got Bobrovsky and DeSmith right now. Names that have been discussed this year so far are Mike Giordano, Anders Lee, Craig Smith... even Backstrom, Hagelin, Ekholm and others have come up. I would consider retaining salary for one year on Bob, but I don’t think it’s fair of me to commit LA’s future GM... so no retention past this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tony Romo said: I’m shocked you think it was worth it for me to sacrifice the future to lose in the 1st round. I should have stuck to my philosophy, yes I should have iced a full roster, but trading away good assets for aging assets just to lose in the first round wasn’t worth it, in my opinion. I should have just traded some late picks for some 4th liners. You may think differently. Just like You may think it was worth trading for toffoli, I do not. But that just shows how subjective team building is, and I think there are dangers in giving the executives too much power in determining how people build their teams. Isn’t that the reason we never veto trades? (Which I agree with) apologies shouldn’t have put it in quotes. I’m not gonna tell you how to feel, so if you feel that those rules are what sets this league apart then fair. I personally do not feel that way. I feel this is the exact same league as CDCFL with gms I’m closer with. And we don’t have a starting goalie list, which I love, but I lost this argument in CDCFL as well. As you say, you chose the moves to make, none of that was on anyone else. Using a full roster as a ultimately low bar, you had to make changes to keep your team... You picked the moves to make, the players you chose, and it was upto you to manage those into coming years, rolling assets as necessary. That’s the game right there. We reminded you that to play the game, you have to actually play the game. I’m sorry you feel so negatively about the choices you made after that. Edited February 24, 2021 by greensman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Exactly! It’s on the GM and only on the GM to manage his/her team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Tony Romo said: Exactly! It’s on the GM and only on the GM to manage his/her team. Correct, within the guidelines of the rules of the league, which are the entire design of the league and it’s reason for existence (not exaggerating, just ask any of those who devoted time to writing and editing our CBA over the past decade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Tony Romo said: Exactly! It’s on the GM and only on the GM to manage his/her team. Within the rules of this league. Having two starters(a specialized and high point scoring position) would give a team an unfair advantage. What part of that doesn't make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Sharpshooter, I do not believe a team having two starting goalies is an unfair advantage, that’s just the gm doing a great job building his team. There are rules against that, and I disagree that there should be rules against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tony Romo said: Sharpshooter, I do not believe a team having two starting goalies is an unfair advantage, that’s just the gm doing a great job building his team. There are rules against that, and I disagree that there should be rules against that. You're incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said: You're incorrect. Matter of opinion. It’s not like I’m threatening to quit, or calling anyone dumb or anything, just giving my reasoning as to why I think that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Tony Romo said: Matter of opinion. It’s not like I’m threatening to quit, or calling anyone dumb or anything, just giving my reasoning as to why I think that. Again, incorrect based on the rules and spirit of this league. You're certainly not dumb. You're a solid GM. You're just not coming to grips with the logic of why two starting goalies is an unfair advantage. Let me give you another example, would you think it's fair if I had Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon and Matthews as my 4 centers? It's an exaggerated example, but do you not see the logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensman Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Let me give you another example, would you think it's fair if I had Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon and Matthews as my 4 centers? It's an exaggerated example, but do you not see the logic? ...or how it would completely skew the league and turn the separation from top teams to bottom teams into a impassible Grand Canyon rift... or how it would negatively impact the enjoyment of the rest of the league... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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