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Just like to add that when I started on in Colorado 5(?) years ago, I never won a lottery, dropped every year IIRC, and never drafted higher than 4th I think it was. And usually in the 5-15 range. And we seem to have managed rebuilding to a somewhat competitive club regardless ;)

 

Winning the lottery doesn't short cut all the other work you need to do to rebuild a hockey team. It just gives you one, slightly better player than you might have otherwise got. Or it might just net you Yakapov...:lol:

 

Also agree with @Primal Optimist, given the uncertainty of prospect rankings due to Covid, there's arguably no better year to implement this. You may just get the best player of the draft, at 11!

Edited by aGENT
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2 hours ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Issue #1 - Fox won't re-sign, being 'forced' to move my #1 Dman.

 - First, he didn't say he "won't re-sign", he told you exactly why he was hesitant to consider an extension at the moment, and I'm pretty sure it had something to do with the roster tear down and the fact that you don't have any goaltending behind him.  So this is a self inflicted wound.  It's also an easily fixable one, and now there is zero deterrent to you doing just that.  Nobody is forcing you to move him.  If you do, that's on you, and nobody else. 

 

Issue #2 - Odds of top 5 pick drops dramatically/"My lottery pick just got thrown in the trash"

- Let's examine this shall we?  Your team is currently 4th last, which according to Tankathon, would give the NHL team in that position (ironically Vancouver... yay?) a 9.5% chance at the 1st pick.  Giving teams all even odds reduces your odds to 6.67%.  So not even a 3% drop.  In fact, the odds only drop at all for 5 teams currently in play (6 if you count Seattle) and only 2 of those 5 teams drop more than 3%.  That's hardly throwing it in the trash.  But hey, if you don't want it, I'm happy to take out the trash for you. ;)

 

Issue #3 - Completely screws so many GMs over.

- See answer #2. 

 

Issue #4 - Major rule change implemented immediately is a bad idea

- This is not a major rule change, and it's impact is not as far reaching as you seem to think.  The numbers bear this out.  And it's being implemented nearly half a year before the entry draft.  It does adversely effect a couple of teams, which is unfortunate, but this is usually the case with any adjustment that is made.  Make no mistake, we've made adjustments in season before, ones that I would argue are far more significant than this one.  However, there is plenty of time to adjust, as I've mentioned before. 

And finally, can we all remember that these are only lottery odds???  You still have to win the damn thing. Ottawa had great odds to pick 1-2 last year, and ended up picking 3 and 5.  Were they disappointed? Sure.  But did they still have a pretty damn good draft day?  Yeah they did.  Hell, right now I think most people take Stutzle over Lafreniere anyways.

Issue 1.. I was trying to get him signed long before the tear down happened. I also had solid goaltending until that Crosby trade, but felt like I had no choice but to move Vanecek. Ask @Canuck Surfer I tried to keep him lol. And I am NOT trading an Adam Beckman for a 30+ backup goalie (or even a starter for that matter) to ice an NHL team for now like some think I will here. Id rather win in 3 years, not be stuck in mediocrity because I had to ice a goalie that plays for an NHL team and had to trade futures to a guy hoarding 1 in his farm system. Teams sell off and tank in the real NHL too. its a legit strategy used by many real lofe clubs since I started watching hockey.

 

Yea its only a 3% less chance that you dont win the #1 pick, but how much does it incease your odds of moving 4+ spots back?

 

Imagine if NHL decided to implement an every non playoff team has equal odds at picking 1-15 half way through a year like this when the Canucks would be destined for a top 5 pick. Fans would go absolutely bananas lol

 

I love the rule, but to have a rule change like that implemented immedietly just doesn't seem "fair" to me, and seems more like a "haha got you B!+€#" than it does a "we trying to make this more fair" to me.. However im one of those few teams that has a big old red hand print on my face :bigblush:

 

I still think its BS to put it in effect this year, but it is what it is, and I will still build a team to kick @Canuck Surfer's ass for eternity :P

 

However I refuse to let someone strongarm me for an Adam Beckman or other big future piece for an aging goalie just to keep apperances up. Sorry, but that not smart GMing. Id rather be fired/quit before doing something dumb like that. If Fox wo t sign because of that smart decision, then theres the door pal :P

 

 

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Another thing... I still jave Chara because I havnt recieved what I feel to be a fair offer. If I was trying to tank as hard as some think I am hed be gone for a 4th right now

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15 minutes ago, Crabby said:

And I am NOT trading an Adam Beckman for a 30+ backup goalie (or even a starter for that matter) to ice an NHL team for now like some think I will here

 

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Need to have a starter but don’t want to be overburdened by irritating stats like ‘wins’???

 

 

Montreal places Thomas Greiss on waivers in order to be assigned to minors

 

30 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I see no excuse to not be able to ice a complete roster even a crappy one and that is where the unrealistic portion happens IMO. Of course injuries and covid play a part, but most teams should have some depth (again part of GMing). I have a list of about 8 unsigned players that are playing moderate games with a few of them as regulars for the most part in the NHL and they could be had for free without burning assets.

 

So I guess if we are talking "tanking" as not icing a full roster, then yes. But I think teams selling off players (as long as they can replenish bodies) is a perfectly fine strategy if the goal is to start fresh, which IMO is still tanking but fair in the scope of things.

There are no excuses to not icing a full roster as per CBA rules and no, you do not need to spend any or major assets to do so.

 

You could claim Greiss for free and offer me a '22 4th for Hutchinson and have something resembling an NHL starter and backup for almost nothing. (Bonus points if you find an unsigned guy.) Neither of whom will particularly give you many pool points to foul your tanking efforts either.

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Just now, aGENT said:

 

 

There are no excuses to not icing a full roster as per CBA rules and no, you do not need to spend any or major assets to do so.

Im sorry but I dont have the time to filter through every single GML team and NHL team to find these available fringe guys that wont help nothing but the appearance. If there was a list of available guys then maybe.. But if there are as many GML teams as NHL teams, and guys have 5+ NHL guys on their AHL club, then the numbers just dont add up to make it possible for EVERYONE to have a complete NHL roster. 

 

I mean I didnt see Gabe Vilardi was available, you really believe im going to notice fringe NHL guys that are available when 31 other GMs didnt see it either? lol

 

I mean if someone wants to PM me a list of available UFAs id gladly get to icing a more competent NHL roster, but im not mortgaging my bright future ive spent all season working on for stop gaps

 

My name is Crabby, not Jim Benning :bigblush:

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4 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Im sorry but I dont have the time to filter through every single GML team and NHL team to find these available fringe guys that wont help nothing but the appearance. If there was a list of available guys then maybe.. But if there are as many GML teams as NHL teams, and guys have 5+ NHL guys on their AHL club, then the numbers just dont add up to make it possible for EVERYONE to have a complete NHL roster. 

 

I mean I didnt see Gabe Vilardi was available, you really believe im going to notice fringe NHL guys that are available when 31 other GMs didnt see it either? lol

 

I mean if someone wants to PM me a list of available UFAs id gladly get to icing a more competent NHL roster, but im not mortgaging my bright future ive spent all season working on for stop gaps

 

My name is Crabby, not Jim Benning :bigblush:

Teams list available players all the time for trades. Most aren't asking for an arm and a leg, but want fair value. If the price is too high, that's fine, then you move on to the next target. If your job is to ice an NHL roster, it is your job to scour the league for talent or be willing to pay the price otherwise.

 

If teams have 5+ legit NHL guys on their AHL clubs, I'm sure that won't slide and teams would be told that they aren't happy and be asked to be moved. With that said, if teams have bubble NHL talent on their roster, it's because they've developed or built that depth. UFAs are not going to accept roster spots on full teams (which I know fully well, but still try :) ), which only makes it even easier for teams that do not have the depth to sign as they would be "more willing" to get the NHL roster spot.

 

I still think it's much more challenging to actually build a competitive roster than it is to try and tank. So I believe that is the challenge of this "game" and what should be rewarded. So while I do agree it's a bit harsh to be implemented mid-season, it seems like it's been an issue for quite some time, so it was really a matter of time. I do believe there should be a compromise for this season at least, but that's my viewpoint as a newcomer and not someone that has been witnessing this for years. At the end of the day as it stands, if you don't make the playoffs then you have a chance at a top 16 pick regardless, so you're going to get a good prospect either way. If you loaded up on picks, nothing else really has changed as it only affects the top half of the 1st round. This change certainly isn't crippling news for the teams that have "tanked" this season.

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1 hour ago, AndreLePlum said:

The Anaheim Ducks activate goaltender Alex Stalock and send goaltender Craig Anderson down to the California Golden Seals

 

Do you mean waive?

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29 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Im sorry but I dont have the time to filter through every single GML team and NHL team to find these available fringe guys that wont help nothing but the appearance. If there was a list of available guys then maybe.. But if there are as many GML teams as NHL teams, and guys have 5+ NHL guys on their AHL club, then the numbers just dont add up to make it possible for EVERYONE to have a complete NHL roster. 

 

I mean I didnt see Gabe Vilardi was available, you really believe im going to notice fringe NHL guys that are available when 31 other GMs didnt see it either? lol

This is where Fantrax is fantastic. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

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I'll throw the GM's who need to fill out their roster a bone. If you need an active D man take this.

 

CBJ waives D Christian Wolanin

 

He is 25 years old on the sens and has played 9 NHL games this season. That should count as an NHL Dman as he gets rotated in.

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13 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Im sorry but I dont have the time to filter through every single GML team and NHL team to find these available fringe guys that wont help nothing but the appearance. If there was a list of available guys then maybe.. But if there are as many GML teams as NHL teams, and guys have 5+ NHL guys on their AHL club, then the numbers just dont add up to make it possible for EVERYONE to have a complete NHL roster. 

 

I mean I didnt see Gabe Vilardi was available, you really believe im going to notice fringe NHL guys that are available when 31 other GMs didnt see it either? lol

 

I mean if someone wants to PM me a list of available UFAs id gladly get to icing a more competent NHL roster, but im not mortgaging my bright future ive spent all season working on for stop gaps

 

My name is Crabby, not Jim Benning :bigblush:

I signed Joonas Donskoi, Ondrej Kase and Neal Pionk and many others into this league

 

An older TB GM signed Colton Parayko into the league

 

Mike V traded for Arvidsson before Arvidsson even played an NHL game

 

Romi drafted Batherson outside of the 1st round

 

I hate tooting my own horn so I had to bring other examples with me. The point is all these transactions occurred in the shadows during times where these players were looked at as players with no obvious NHL career/path. They put in the homework and got rewarded.

 

It's not the leagues job to hand you these types of players or any player for that matter on a silver plate. The UFA list is consolidation courtesy to be frank as that info is already provided on every teams sheets. It shouldn't be viewed at as the only option.

 

This isn't Be a GM mode in NHL21 where the options that you have are posted in a list that the game provided you to review. In this league you're your own amateur scout, you're your own professional players scout, you're your own agent for your club etc. It's as real as it gets to real life here in the GML.

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Winnipeg Jets via telsat from a train in order to get it posted on time (what is it with train guys and timings?, haha: 

 

Quote

c2xToday at 11:36 AM

Recalling Chris Driedger to Active Roster.

Oh and the roster spot has been opened up via trade, thus no send down or waiver, et cetera. cheers all. 

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10 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Why are we doing this?

No one answered this?

 

Its my feedback that participants should be involved when major changes are to take place. And that they should not be done during the middle any season. 

 

From the sound of discussion?

 

There was dissatisfaction in teams, or certain GM's not playing with enough integrity. The league, in the form of being that teams owner, can have a frank discussion with their own team?  Communicate to that GM that they are not meeting their requirements. GM's can be fired.

 

Another part of the issue, some GM's not being active enough? Then making bad decisions on behalf of their team. The league / team owners can also knix deals that do not represent the best interests of the league or team. Something it sounds, understandable in key moments? Like they don't like to do. But very possible most other days.  My feedback is stepping in would be better than major rule changes in the middle of the season.    

 

There was noise, Greens alluded to it being pretty un pleasant, to have to ''tell'' GM's that players want a trade. There was different noise, Mike mentioned Kreider not being worth a lottery pick. It picked up little fanfare; I slipped in that the negotiating rights to Giroux would not have been worth one either? I am going to add now, there have been transactions where players waived NMC's in weird circumstances. My guess is to appease GM's? They are all related issues.   

 

My point / feedback is to be more firm in managing individual circumstance. Not this change. 

 

I very much believe this rule change should not take place at this moment. 

 

Maybe, maybe, when there has been a fair discussion about it?        

 

      

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1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Tanking is a legit NHL strategy. We have seen it. I see nothing wrong with a team wanting a full tear down and starting over especially now that it's no guarantee that you'd even get the top 5 picks. The main issue as @canuck2xtreme seems to be peeved about is icing a full roster. I see no excuse to not be able to ice a complete roster even a crappy one and that is where the unrealistic portion happens IMO. Of course injuries and covid play a part, but most teams should have some depth (again part of GMing). I have a list of about 8 unsigned players that are playing moderate games with a few of them as regulars for the most part in the NHL and they could be had for free without burning assets.

 

So I guess if we are talking "tanking" as not icing a full roster, then yes. But I think teams selling off players (as long as they can replenish bodies) is a perfectly fine strategy if the goal is to start fresh, which IMO is still tanking but fair in the scope of things.

No, you have misunderstood. 
 

Tanking, diminishing your team to a less than competitive roster to intentionally place better in the draft is 100% against the rules of the GML, written on page one. We have literally fired people multiple times for this. It is not about bodies, the rules state clearly that it’s about keeping your fan base and owners happy.
 

This draft rule will help to curb GM’s from tanking, but tanking in any form is not acceptable in the GML. 
 

Not trying to be an ass, just wanting to be super clear on the rules of the game, and how we’ve specifically fine tuned the wording over years. 
 

You can think tanking is a fair strategy in general, and we can chat about it, but the rules are clear and enforced in this league.

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1 hour ago, Crabby said:

Im sorry but I dont have the time to filter through every single GML team and NHL team to find these available fringe guys that wont help nothing but the appearance. If there was a list of available guys then maybe.. But if there are as many GML teams as NHL teams, and guys have 5+ NHL guys on their AHL club, then the numbers just dont add up to make it possible for EVERYONE to have a complete NHL roster. 

 

I mean I didnt see Gabe Vilardi was available, you really believe im going to notice fringe NHL guys that are available when 31 other GMs didnt see it either? lol

 

I mean if someone wants to PM me a list of available UFAs id gladly get to icing a more competent NHL roster, but im not mortgaging my bright future ive spent all season working on for stop gaps

 

My name is Crabby, not Jim Benning :bigblush:

Jordan Binnington was a fringe free agent signing I took a swing at. I found him when nobody else did... took about 4 years to mature to the NHL in my system. Ive fueled my team with just such ‘impossibilities’
 

This is how I turned my old bottom feeder (literally last in the league) to a perennial playoff contender.

 

your team, your strategy. B)

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45 minutes ago, Sergei Bobrovsky said:

I signed Joonas Donskoi, Ondrej Kase and Neal Pionk and many others into this league

 

An older TB GM signed Colton Parayko into the league

 

Mike V traded for Arvidsson before Arvidsson even played an NHL game

 

Romi drafted Batherson outside of the 1st round

 

I hate tooting my own horn so I had to bring other examples with me. The point is all these transactions occurred in the shadows during times where these players were looked at as players with no obvious NHL career/path. They put in the homework and got rewarded.

 

It's not the leagues job to hand you these types of players or any player for that matter on a silver plate. The UFA list is consolidation courtesy to be frank as that info is already provided on every teams sheets. It shouldn't be viewed at as the only option.

 

This isn't Be a GM mode in NHL21 where the options that you have are posted in a list that the game provided you to review. In this league you're your own amateur scout, you're your own professional players scout, you're your own agent for your club etc. It's as real as it gets to real life here in the GML.

these are examples of what ive been trying to do. These moves however are not moves to help ice an NHL roster immedietly. 

 

I also agree with your point about doing your own DD on the FA list. My point was simply I do not have the time nor patients to spend 10+ hours to find a couple fringe NHL players that might help me finish 26th instead of 27th. If the was a list like in NHL21 I would most defiently have a more NHL looking team right now. Every single move ive made I can justify the though of wieghing between the now vs the future, thats all imma say

 

There is also a couple GMs in this league that know that ive been worried about having an NHL looking roster during my rebuild. I seen teams like the ones your trying to punish, and when my team fell as far as they did I made a bunch of moves. Those move may look bad to some of you from a competing standpoint for this year but even if moves weren't made, I wasn't finishing much if at all better than my current position.

 

Couple things to note...

 

I was not at all inclined to trade Vanecek (my 2nd highest point producer). However it was what was needed to be added to land Askarov and Turcotte.

 

I made a strong pitch for Pastrnak that would have immensely helped immedietly. I wasn't really given a chance in those talks as the GM made the deal prior to getting my proposal

 

I wiegh every move I make with the eyes on the future. If yall wanted a GM to keep a mediocre team "Stale" and mediocre for years you hired the wrong guy. I want to win, and if a losing season or 2 is required to build a consitant winner then so be it in my eyes.

 

 Just really sucks because I read the CBA, I based decisions of my recent moves on seeing those consitant tank teams rosters, and thought...

 

"I tried icing an NHL team, they stunk it up, im sure I can tear it down now for half a season, maximize value on current vets that dont fit near future plans, and try and compete next year"

 

Not like I have much chances to fall any lower in standings with the 3 teams below me anyway. Theres a way to punish those that consitantly do this without screwing us honest, new GMs trying to put their own footprint on their newely acquired team.

 

Idk man, im not looking to argue or anything, but it is very frustrating to have this rule just slapped down without any warning whatsoever, and have it take effect in the draft that we have been preparing months for under different rules

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58 minutes ago, AndreLePlum said:

Yes sorry, I was rushing to do something. The Ducks activate goaltender Alex Stalock and waive Craig Anderson. Busy day, bad terminology.

Look, another free goalie! :lol:

 

52 minutes ago, Sergei Bobrovsky said:

Mike V traded for Arvidsson before Arvidsson even played an NHL game

*Ooof* Why you gotta bring that up bruh? :wacko::(

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