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My advice would be when sending out an NHL body on a playoff team. Ask for an nhl player back on a lesser team. It's a pretty reasonable request and most gm's can accommodate by sending you something even if its a depth player like wolanin who gets in and out of the lineup.

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26 minutes ago, Tony Romo said:

No no, you misunderstood. The inequality will come from the rule backfiring and incentivizing more teams to “tank”

 

Obviously for legal reasons I would never tank, just thinking of what a team on the fringe may be thinking with not many playoff players but a draft pick with a 30% chance at a top 5 pick.

valid points in your posts today. I have been a bottom five club for as far back as i dare look. One year I made a surprise playoff appearance. I have always figured I would only trade my first if it made me better, arguably 'NONE of my trades have made me better until maybe recently, but too soon to tell, lol". In future years the new rule doesn't really matter and will certainly lead to teams not selling everything not bolted down in order to drive to the bottom of the standings at double the speed limit, but this year I see it is a bit sticky. I will try to post later the worst five teams or so and their picks and how they will be affected, just to see what it looks like. I haven't seen that yet. 

My point for replying to this though, back on topic, is that while it may backfire to see more teams trade talent for picks to drop below the playoffs: none of those teams would want to strip it down to the wood in the new rule future because there is zero incentive to ship out talent beyond just barely missing the playoffs. So for me, this rule really works in that it will keep all teams trying to be competitive while allowing the subtle trade here and there to dip down for a lotto shot if your not thinking you have a cup shot. The end result should be far more parity as less clubs fire everyone at the best clubs to get some picks and prospects. With less firesales: clubs will fall less low and be easier to fly back up the following year, but we won't know until we see it a couple seasons. All good points though, not lost on me. 

22 minutes ago, snowflake said:

As a team who’s selling, I’m here to tell you that you can move assets and bring in futures while not being a ‘tanker’. 
 

I’m a seller. Not a tanker. I’m a seller because I literally have no competent goaltending. But at least it’s NHL goaltending. 

I feel like I am always a seller, but I have seriously never tanked. Sure you can joke that I just suck, but I think that describes the GM in me up until a few years ago. With time and learning the league and the players and the system I have gotten better, and thus a mediocre rise in the standings from 2nd worst and at one point the absolute worst in the league to 'competing to join the middle third'. The new rule still allows me to be a seller and others to be buyers but it eliminates the race to 31st or 32nd in teh league and that will make this a much more healthy league. most keeper leagues fold after maybe 5 or 6 years due to incredible unbalance that is nearly impossible to recover from. I think this rule fixes that. I agree with you pretty much word for word. 

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4 minutes ago, Sludge said:

i finished 28th last year, i bought out Staal ($5.5mil) and Backes($6.5mil? also eating 4mil of dead cap for the next couple years because of it) and traded Palmieri for Teriney to save cap as well as hopefully acquiring a player that was on a improving team. i left a bunch of players walk into free agency to open up positions on my nhl team as well as my minor team. then i allocated a good chunk of my money to player relations, and started making FA offers. i have 14 new players on my team this year and took some chances. not 28th anymore. 

Show off. :unsure:

 

I may be one of the new guys but I feel like I’ve done a decent job putting my mark on this team. I can’t boast a turnaround like that, but I came into the year feeling good about my chances, if only I could get some goaltending. Then my top scoring defenceman came down with a severe case of nut job and my goaltending fell off a cliff. Still, I think I’m better positioned now than I was a year ago. A few moves I regret but most I don’t. 
 

if all goes well, I’ll be in the mix next year, with my core intact, better goaltending and more future prospects. Without a tank job or complete tear down. 

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28 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

My advice would be when sending out an NHL body on a playoff team. Ask for an nhl player back on a lesser team. It's a pretty reasonable request and most gm's can accommodate by sending you something even if its a depth player like wolanin who gets in and out of the lineup.

I would but im not placing value on those guys if they dont give me any odds of winning. Thats where talks get tricky. Unless my goal is being met im not moving a guy. If im asking for a 2nd, but because I have to take a NHL guy it becomes a 3rd, im not making the deal. If the NHL guy is someone I have LT interest in yea sure, but I always tell GMs 

 

"if you can grab picks for them fine, but im not sacrificing value on my asset for a piece I have 0 interest in"

 

Idk its such a fine line and so many factors to think of. I think the league as a whole should talk about it and work something out. 

 

My biggest pet peeve is it being started this year after it just being brought to everyones attention. Of course 80% of you dont have a problem because it either dont affect you or it greatly helps you.

 

The rule itself is wide ope for exploitation as well. If im a playoff bubble team and im most likely going to be 1 and done in playoffs, why wouldn't I attempt a silent tank and try and miss playoffs? If I barely miss I get my already solid team a real shot at adding a generational talent on a cheap ELC. Its kinda dumb and asking for a whole new can of worms to be open if you ask me.

 

If you aint cheating you aint trying, and theres a whole new level of exploitation this rule can open up imho

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just for grins:

placing, team, picks...

Old System: New System,

31 VGK's 1st

18.5%, old system: New system 6.67%

30 MIN's 1st

13.5%, New 6.67%

29 ANA ((no firsts))

11.5%, New 6.67%

28 TOR's 1st

9.5%, New 6.67%

27 CAR's 1st

8.5%, New 6.67%

26 DAL's 1st

7.5%, New 6.67%

25 NYR's 1st

6.5%, New 6.67%

 

We all have our own first round picks and none of us have any other clubs lotto pick, all the bottom teams with more than their own pick: those picks are playoff clubs picks.

The two clubs "harmed" the worst would be Vegas and Minnesota, but the rest of us aren't really losing anything. There was a good point made by Crabby though that while he is down just 3.5% in the odds to win number one overall, the thing of it is that the teams behind him in the lotto now have better overall combined odds of beating him. That is a valid point for sure, but you have to admit it falls a long way short of devastating to your system? we will each still get one of the top 15 picks and the double lotto system now implemented means we all have 6.67% chance of being tied to the best NHL clubs lotto odds. THen there is yet another lotto as the NHL does its thing and we shuffle our positioning to match our NHL buddy clubs lotto placements. I think that alone makes up for the inconvenience of the wrench in the plans that we are looking at as the affected clubs. It is a one time problem this year only that doesn't affect too much for any of us, and is slightly more inconvenient for Vegas and Minny. We have months before the deadline to make trades in the new system to mitigate the change and as I mentioned earlier, this is the one real year that this change doesn't really effect much in that the scouts are not all in agreement about the order of the top 15 picks this coming draft, that is why the NHL is considering bumping this summer draft to January 2022, in case anyone missed that news. All in all, I think it is actually best this year rather than kicking it to next year, even thought that gives us more time to make trades and adjust to the rules, we still have two months now to do that and more after the season and if the draft is punted to 2022 by the NHL we will follow most likely and then you have a year to adjust. 

All in all yeah its monkeywrench, but the imagined 'disaster' just isn't there as far as i can see, aside from the two lowest standings clubs who lose the most 'odds'. but losing odds at a lotto pick by the time these players get to the NHL is pretty watered down losses. 

 

Lastly, using math you will see using hindsight in a year and a half's time that the new system will most likely work out in your favour or similarily in your favour relative to the old system. I will certainly do a look back after the draft at both ways it could have gone and I am gonna guess there isn't much change at all, specifically because 1st to 15th in this unique coming draft class aren't that far apart as they are in other years, and also they are all over the scouts maps due to lack of play time the last 12 months. 

 

That is all I have to say, but I think it is obvious I am working more to soothe tempers than for any other reason. I really enjoy the league and all the people in it, we are a great group of folks all together and I wouldn't want to have anyone get so angry they leave. That is my biggest worry in all this, I could care less about the lotto, never have cared as folks will agree I have always strived to rise in the standings even near the trade deadlines. I just suck at that apparently. hahaha. 

 

Hopefully the few of us affected can move on and make the changes to our strategies on the fly and then hopefully the league revisits the change in two years sample time and checks to make sure it addressed the situation. I suspect it will work out blissfully after the first draft that the rule change affects, which as pointed out does have some effect on a couple clubs. 

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2 minutes ago, Primal Optimist said:

just for grins:

placing, team, picks...

Old System: New System,

31 VGK's 1st

18.5%, old system: New system 6.67%

30 MIN's 1st

13.5%, New 6.67%

29 ANA ((no firsts))

11.5%, New 6.67%

28 TOR's 1st

9.5%, New 6.67%

27 CAR's 1st

8.5%, New 6.67%

26 DAL's 1st

7.5%, New 6.67%

25 NYR's 1st

Yall keep saying this but only showing odds for winning 1st OA.. Teams dropping 10+ spots is ridiculous

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7 minutes ago, Crabby said:

The rule itself is wide ope for exploitation as well. If im a playoff bubble team and im most likely going to be 1 and done in playoffs, why wouldn't I attempt a silent tank and try and miss playoffs? If I barely miss I get my already solid team a real shot at adding a generational talent on a cheap ELC. Its kinda dumb and asking for a whole new can of worms to be open if you ask me.

this is the whole point of the rule change I think. Unless I am missing something the future league benefits from the change in that teams that want to drop a player or two to get a lotto shot don't have to sell everything that isn't bolted down to get to the lotto shot. There will be no prize for worst, which now there is. that is the entire point of the change, I think. remove the prize for being the worst fantasy hockey player. 

 

It just sucks for whomever of us happens to be occupying that spot whatever time or year the rule takes effect. I get it, I am normally exactly where you sit in the standings and could be again in a weeks time, haha, but I still think the rule is best for the future of the league, $&!#ty as it is to be affected by its changing while I sit down here at the shallow end. 

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8 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Yall keep saying this but only showing odds for winning 1st OA.. Teams dropping 10+ spots is ridiculous

its only ridiculous the one year, whatever year that happens to be, that the rule change is implemented. It is going to be the same 'bad' for whomever is here where we are now in whatever year it changes, so your only reason for not this year is that you personally are sitting here beside me and some others this year. next year it will be me and someone else...so that is fine by you? lol

 

EDIT: I really dont have a care about the change, as I said, I care about the people and the feelings. Hopefully we can all still get along and have fun which is my goal 100%. 

 

OH and for what it is worth, my suggestion about 5 months ago was to make the teams finishing in the last five spots locked into the worst 5 lotto odds by NHL rules and then the other ten teams finishing outside the playoffs get the seeding 31st thru 21st would normally get...that makes finishing last the worst possible thing in a given year. but the league went another direction on it, which is fine.

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I don't think it will stop teams stripping down, the bottom teams will still try and acquire future assets, the only difference is now more middle teams may be inclined to do the same.

 

Again for legal reasons, obviously not me, I would never consider this

Edited by Tony Romo
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6 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Yall keep saying this but only showing odds for winning 1st OA.. Teams dropping 10+ spots is ridiculous

And what if next year, you give it a shot and just fall short of the playoffs, but move up into the top 5 in the draft? Would it still be ridiculous if you benefit from it? At the end of the day, we will all benefit or get hurt by it at some point if we stick around long enough. It's going to make things more interesting IMO.

 

Still think the timing of the rule change should be shifted though or at least a gradual transition where this year isn't as dramatic (eg split the bottom 8 teams and the next 8 teams into lotteries for phase 1, then keep phase 2, so the odds still favour the lower teams slightly more for this draft)

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1 minute ago, Primal Optimist said:

its only ridiculous the one year, whatever year that happens to be, that the rule change is implemented. It is going to be the same 'bad' for whomever is here where we are now in whatever year it changes, so your only reason for not this year is that you personally are sitting here beside me and some others this year. next year it will be me and someone else...so that is fine by you? lol

 

Naw not at all. Chances are ill be here next year and thats fair, because I have a whole offseason to make moves to adjust for it. This is just a big "$#@% You" to us teams on the bottom right now.

 

Fire me if you think im doing a bad job as GM, dont make a rule change this big mid way through the season just to screw teams that tanked/made smart trades because playoff hopes diminished. 

 

The rule is dumb too and if it is used I give it 5 years b4 its regretted. Imaging @Mike Vanderhoekbarely misses playoffs for 1st time in years if not ever, and he gets a McDavid esque player? Like come one. How am I the only one to see how bad this rule is

 

So many better options imo...

 

Minimum point threshold - Lose 1st if you dont meet it (best option imo)

 

Cant win a top 3 pick in consecutive years.

 

Cap penalty for finishing so low 3+ years

 

Their just ideas off the top of my head.. I think this rule needs to be thrown out and there needs to be a league discussion/vote on how to fix it. Stacking good teams isnt the answer. Punishing hardcore tankers is. I dont see how this rule does that

 

 

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2 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

And what if next year, you give it a shot and just fall short of the playoffs, but move up into the top 5 in the draft? Would it still be ridiculous if you benefit from it?

Yes it would. But I wont be the one complaining at that time :P

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2 minutes ago, Tony Romo said:

I don't think it will stop teams stripping down, the bottom teams will still try and acquire future assets, the only difference is now more middle teams may be inclined to do the same.

As long you ice a full roster, I see no issue with this whether it's considered as "tanking" or not.

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I know from managing a league that lost too many bodies and from playing in three other leagues for relatively long durations that firing anyone is a silly approach. It is hard enough to find enough eager new GM's who are willing to put the time that is required into a keeper league. It is very much better to bring everyone along than fire or even threaten to fire someone. That is one problem with the 'just fire bad GM's' approach. That and I don't wanna be fired, LOL. also, to be sure, I have lived in the bottom 5 for too many years, and its hard to climb out, still unsure if i am climbing out or just up for a breathe of air at 6th worst for a change. 

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3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

As long you ice a full roster, I see no issue with this whether it's considered as "tanking" or not.

Yes, and this rule wont really do anything to stop that. 

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