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canuck2xtreme
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14 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Trust me it took a lot to walk away from the team I built. You know how hard I worked those phones all year for that?

 

If you were listening, you werent showing it. I seen you mention the 9%-6% odds at 1st overall multiple times. Therefore suggesting you were not listening, but instead just trying to prove a point.

 

Thats the main reason I stepped down. I would like to come back, but will have to see how the dust settles first, because im deeply disappointed over whats taken place and how the outcries have literally been ignored. Atleast until GM #3 quit

Not a clue what you are talking about re: percentages.

 

It has literally been like what 2 days and ive been listening. I would rather nobody quit. I'd  prefer everyone enjoys the game. 

 

I personally would not implement a rule change until a date after a season or say the beginning of free agency etc. The fact we were far from the draft I'd have thought that was acceptable.

 

Off the bat it was except for a complaint by a team that just traded for a lottery pick and a team publically positioning towards draft assets at expense of a roster.

 

It snowballed from there. Be nice if we could take a little time to sort through the conjecture and figure it out.

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55 minutes ago, Bombastik der Teutone said:

May the "Ratpack" each should manage 5 Teams and you can allways change your rules and make deals with yourself. :rolleyes:

Just want to reply to this as well. This change would arguably benefit both you and @Canuck Surfer FAR more than anyone in the exec FWIW.

 

And if any of you think Curt is planning any rules to help me out, you're not paying attention :lol:

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9 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Off the bat it was except for a complaint by a team that just traded for a lottery pick and a team publically positioning towards draft assets at expense of a roster.

Trust me ive voiced my opinions before that post, but after seeing it I felt it was the right time for me to step in and voice my displeasure. Quitting wasn't even a thought in my mind at the time. After feeling like my concerns were being ignored and felt pressure from others to make terrible decisions I did somewhat contimplate it. After waking up this morning and seen your reply to @Canuck Surferit was 100% clear none of my many point were even listened to I just didnt see a sense in continuing

 

I dont want to imply the execs are rigging it, but ask yourselves. Would rule change like this take place for an upcoming draft like this if @canuck2xtreme was #4 best odds? I doubt it. His, yours, and others opinions are so closed minded on the hardcore tankers you forget about the implications the rule has on some of your hard working GMs. I get both sides of this. The part that frustrated me is many are only seeing 1 side and not even really paying attention to the concerns some of us have about the rule. 

 

I make a post 3 paragraphs long, get 1 small part quoted (ignoring all my points that im trying to make) and be given the same dumb explanation 100 different ways. Its exhausting to try and find common ground when people are so close minded on an issue

Edited by Crabby
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8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Just want to reply to this as well. This change would arguably benefit both you and @Canuck Surfer FAR more than anyone in the exec FWIW.

 

And if any of you think Curt is planning any rules to help me out, you're not paying attention :lol:

None of us think that.. Well atleast I dont I cant really speak for others. I do however think its ridiculous to think it barely effects those that are impacted the most.

 

Theres a difference in cheating, and being biased in a decision. This falls under the being biased in a decision category. @canuck2xtremewont be benifitting from it this year, unless he pulls the playoff bubble tank which will be the new tank in GML under this rule

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I honestly can't believe people are this bent out of shape over a change in draft lottery odds.  I mean good grief!!

 

Want to feel heard?  Well I want to hear you. 

 

So now that I'm home and can reply, by all means! Please, explain to me how you feel this change in draft lottery odds is such a monumental shift???? 

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From what I've gathered over the time the rule was announced to now, my impression is that the large majority of the spoken GMs here so far are willing to accept this rule (I'm seeing maybe 1 vehemently against it). So to me the rule isn't the problem itself.

 

The sticking points that are causing the ones to have jump ship thus far are the timing of when this rule should be implemented or some alternative for this draft until the rule is then implemented and a proper ruling on decisions moving forward.

 

I feel like the timing of the rule can be moved. There is no real reason (IMHO) it has to be implemented effective immediately with the expectation that teams now are going to suddenly flip their script with half the season played out already.

 

As for decision making, I don't know how it's always been done in the past, but it does seem fair to have polls/votes on decisions that affect the league as all GMs will be affected by it. Perhaps some sort of annual general meeting to bring up any major issues and voting would be beneficial to get everyone's opinion and input. Issues may come up mid-season, but should be discussed during these AGMs. At the end of the day, not everyone will be happy, but at least we would've gone through the process and if GMs can see that the majority do agree with things, then there's not much else that can be said for at least a season to give whatever changes a shot and see if it needs to be tweaked or changed again.

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2 minutes ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Seriously.... someone walk me through a scenario where this impacts somebody so much that it's a massive shift????

Well me im sitting 27th. So I will pick anywhere from 1-7, most likely 5... Now I have a very good chance of falling out of top 10

 

I would ask, what is the rush? Why not take the time to think up a better rule, and not hammer it down mid season in a move that feels extremely rushed. 

 

It has 0 effect on you, so I get your standpoint, but this has a lot of impact on me specifically. Not really anymore, but im speaking as if I was still running the TML

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Just now, Crabby said:

Well me im sitting 27th. So I will pick anywhere from 1-7, most likely 5... Now I have a very good chance of falling out of top 10

 

I would ask, what is the rush? Why not take the time to think up a better rule, and not hammer it down mid season in a move that feels extremely rushed. 

 

It has 0 effect on you, so I get your standpoint, but this has a lot of impact on me specifically. Not really anymore, but im speaking as if I was still running the TML

From 4th last???  How do you figure that??

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Just now, canuck2xtreme said:

From 4th last???  How do you figure that??

What if in first randomizer I get matched up with #14, so in the 2nd go I have 14th best odds. I dont get it then im 14th pick. Unless I misunderstood the rule

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3 minutes ago, Crabby said:

What if in first randomizer I get matched up with #14, so in the 2nd go I have 14th best odds. I dont get it then im 14th pick. Unless I misunderstood the rule

.....

 

 

you guys... DO realize....

 

that it only effects the draft lottery odds...

 

NOT the actual draft order... right?  If you don't win the draft lottery, you go back in your slot in the standings.... 


You guys understand that, yes???


 

Quote

 

EXAMPLE:

- Numbers go through randomizer. Toronto gets 14th.

- They go through draft lottery with NHL. Toronto doesn't win. They go to video review, and the goal judges actually rule against them. Delay of draft penalty.

- The teams who won the draft lottery go 1-2-3.  The teams that didn't?  Go back into their standings position.

 

 

The change is for the DRAFT LOTTERY.  Not the entire first half of the round.

 

So that teams don't feel penalized for pushing for a playoff spot instead of just selling when they're 2-3 spots out.

Edited by canuck2xtreme
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On 3/1/2021 at 7:05 AM, canuck2xtreme said:

 can we all remember that these are only lottery odds???  You still have to win the damn thing. Ottawa had great odds to pick 1-2 last year, and ended up picking 3 and 5.  Were they disappointed? Sure.  But did they still have a pretty damn good draft day?  Yeah they did.  Hell, right now I think most people take Stutzle over Lafreniere anyways.

 

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Just now, canuck2xtreme said:

.....

 

 

you guys... DO realize....

 

that it only effects the draft lottery odds...

 

NOT the actual draft order... right?  If you don't win the draft lottery, you go back in your slot in the standings.... 


You guys understand that, yes???


 

 

The change is for the DRAFT LOTTERY.  Not the entire first half of the round.

No I didnt realize that, and now it doesnt seem so bad to me

 

Wtf Curt we argued for 48 hours for nothing? :picard:

200.gif

 

Still think a rule like this still should be implemented for 2022, but it doesnt really affect as much as I initially thought. Still have a way better chance at dropping 3 spots than I did prior to the change.

 

However if 3 spots is the furthest I can drop im actually ok with that I think.. Should be some discussion on if we start it this year or next. I personally think it should be started next year

 

Either way thanks for clearing things up, and my apologies for stirring $&!# up without knowing the complete facts of the rule change :ph34r:

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43 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Trust me ive voiced my opinions before that post, but after seeing it I felt it was the right time for me to step in and voice my displeasure. Quitting wasn't even a thought in my mind at the time. After feeling like my concerns were being ignored and felt pressure from others to make terrible decisions I did somewhat contimplate it. After waking up this morning and seen your reply to @Canuck Surferit was 100% clear none of my many point were even listened to I just didnt see a sense in continuing

 

I dont want to imply the execs are rigging it, but ask yourselves. Would rule change like this take place for an upcoming draft like this if @canuck2xtreme was #4 best odds? I doubt it. His, yours, and others opinions are so closed minded on the hardcore tankers you forget about the implications the rule has on some of your hard working GMs. I get both sides of this. The part that frustrated me is many are only seeing 1 side and not even really paying attention to the concerns some of us have about the rule. 

I don't think the change is anywhere near as big/impactful as some of you are making it out to be. It's not that we're 'not listening'. We're literally a bit dumbfounded at the backlash for such a small change.

 

The one point I might concede is that some discussion over the timing could be warranted. And maybe that changes with discussion. But I really do think that this year, with Covid, honestly more than countered that. This draft is going to be so bloody random. Honestly feel you might be better off having it this year even if it would technically be better to implement in the offseason in a 'normal' year.

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7 minutes ago, Crabby said:

No I didnt realize that, and now it doesnt seem so bad to me

 

Wtf Curt we argued for 48 hours for nothing? :picard:

200.gif

 

Still think a rule like this still should be implemented for 2022, but it doesnt really affect as much as I initially thought. Still have a way better chance at dropping 3 spots than I did prior to the change.

 

However if 3 spots is the furthest I can drop im actually ok with that I think.. Should be some discussion on if we start it this year or next. I personally think it should be started next year

 

Either way thanks for clearing things up, and my apologies for stirring $&!# up without knowing the complete facts of the rule change :ph34r:

I've been at work, and over the last few weeks my phone hasn't liked CDC when I'm at the bunkhouse.  Which has been super annoying.

 

This is why I've been saying... I don't get the huge problem.  It's not a massive shift, it's pretty straightforward.  Nothing that couldn't happen in the NHL is happening, just, our guys have better odds than NHL teams.  To give teams incentive to push for the playoffs.  That's all.

 

I'm not out to screw any team over or benefit any one team or person.

 

But while I'm here, I'd like to say that the insinuation from some people that I have done anything that skews towards favouritism for anyone, be it myself or any other team, is absurd.

 

Ask greensman or MV the lengths I go to, to the clear detriment of my own team, to ensure the exact opposite of that.

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Just now, aGENT said:

I don't think the change is anywhere near as big/impactful as some of you are making it out to be. It's not that we're 'not listening'. We're literally a bit dumbfounded at the backlash for such a small change.

 

The one point I might concede is that some discussion over the timing could be warranted. And maybe that changes with discussion. But I really do think that this year, with Covid, honestly more than countered that. This strategy is going to be so bloody random. Honestly feel you might be better off having it this year even if it would technically be better to implement in the offseason in a 'normal' year.

I feel terrible, and honestly kind of dumb. I read the rule initially and how I read it it really seemed ridiculous

 

I do still strongly believe ANY changes to lottery odds shouldn't be touched mid season, so im sticking by that.. However I do now kind of get how small (yet not too small) of a change it is. 

 

I think we should throw it in the trash, and revisit talks about how to fix the tank issue after a champion is crowned. Then have it take effect for the 2022 draft. Thats just my 2 cents. @canuck2xtreme is there really a dire need to implement this right away? and if so, why?

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5 minutes ago, Crabby said:

I feel terrible, and honestly kind of dumb. I read the rule initially and how I read it it really seemed ridiculous

 

I do still strongly believe ANY changes to lottery odds shouldn't be touched mid season, so im sticking by that.. However I do now kind of get how small (yet not too small) of a change it is. 

 

I think we should throw it in the trash, and revisit talks about how to fix the tank issue after a champion is crowned. Then have it take effect for the 2022 draft. Thats just my 2 cents. @canuck2xtreme is there really a dire need to implement this right away? and if so, why?

This is where your opinion goes as a non-GM of the league ;)

 

The things you're going to have to do to get back your GM position now.

Nervous Women GIF by Worcester Warriors

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1 minute ago, canuck2xtreme said:

I've been at work, and over the last few weeks my phone hasn't liked CDC when I'm at the bunkhouse.  Which has been super annoying.

 

This is why I've been saying... I don't get the huge problem.  It's not a massive shift, it's pretty straightforward.  Nothing that couldn't happen in the NHL is happening, just, our guys have better odds than NHL teams.  To give teams incentive to push for the playoffs.  That's all.

 

I'm not out to screw any team over or benefit any one team or person.

 

But while I'm here, I'd like to say that the insinuation from some people that I have done anything that skews towards favouritism for anyone, be it myself or any other team, is absurd.

 

Ask greensman or MV the lengths I go to, to the clear detriment of my own team, to ensure the exact opposite of that.

I never said anything like that. I think other than this rule drop everything seemed legit. The rule doesn't benefit you either so I mean even the rule didnt scream rigged. However it did to me feel like I may have been the cause for it with my recent moves, but like I said I can explain in great detail why I made each move. I was going to quickly rebuild this team, not just draft and hope they develop. 

 

Tanking isnt a problem imo. Those that abuse it are, and imo there are better options to punsih them then giving already good teams a great shot at #1. The way I see it you should never tank an offseason. If your season is going downhill, why shouldnt you be able to get value for guys and build depth for future years? Not every GM needs wants to take the Oilers route of tanking a decade for McDavid (The real great one :P)

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