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1 hour ago, greensman said:

The only negative ... all of us currently have teams geared towards the current scoring structure, so we’d all need strategic time to make moves and prepare, like for an expansion draft. 

Again though: since it is "all of us" why then would we need time to adjust? 

Several years back i did some math and found that only 10 to a bakers dozen hitters would have any significant changes and same for shot blockers. I have no idea about faceoffs or shots on goals: but with 0.1 points per, it would have to be a select few whose points are upwards adjusted enough to make roster changes over, right?

 

So for the sake of discussion of the point: I don't think 31 teams need much lead in time other than from one season to the next since no one team has cornered the market on blockers and hitters and no one team has a magic 8 ball to 'rig' the outcome in the NHL rinks where the stats are tabulated. In fact I really like the low point totals for introducing the idea: it makes role players have some value and not just roster fodder for a keeper league that demands 23 players on the roster, without making any team reevaluate its existence, haha. It also leaves the door open for a season later revisiting the idea and seeing how its working without a huge impact for that one season. 

I am okay with things as they are, but I am also very happy with the proposal and would vote for it right now to begin next season: but we all would need to agree to revisit it one year later to make sure there were no unintended consequences. 

 

100 hits: 10 pool points, no big deal

50 blocks: 5 pool points, no big deal

Best shooter: about 32 points a year from shots

50th best shooter: about 17.69 points a year from shots

100th best shooter: about 17.22 points a year from shots

FaceOffs: a little more complicated but in short:

Best Faceoff guy gets 88 points a year from faceoffs

25th best gets 52 points a year

50th best gets 35

100 best gets 27

The difference from the 100th best faceoff guy to the best faceoff guy is only 60 points. That is big, but it again only affects about 2 dozen players, hardly the thing we all need a year to adjust our rosters for. But if we voted it in before the end of this season to take effect next season IMO we all have the adequate time to make adjustments we feel we must make. I don't see a need to make any at all, but going forward, it would affect signing values slightly and trade values slightly. 

 

End of the day, I see this as a good move to add value to the bottom 6 in every team. Sure some big shoots on the top line of a few clubs will get "bonus points", but the anchors we all must have to field a 23 man roster will have some inherent value to actually have and barter with as a result. Keeper leagues will benefit from these added points, but I am glad they are in small quantities. If folks are antsy about faceoffs, I am okay dropping them off the list of four, but all in all, the four items at 0.1 point per action seems fair to me. 

 

Shooters math:

Spoiler

100 hits: 10 pool points, big whoop

50 blocks: 5 pool points, big whoop

Shots per game in 2019-20 (*pre covid example: 

TOP: Nathan MacKinnon 4.61 shots per game x 69 games played that year equals 318 shots? x 0.1 = 31.8 points for best shooter in the league

12th best shooter: 3.62 shots per game x 47 games = 170 shots x 0.1 = 17 points for the 12th best shooter in the league

25th best shooter: 3.21 shots per game x 52 games = 166 shots x 0.1 = 16.7 points on the year...

50th best shooter: Kris Letang: 2.9 shots per game x 61 games = 176.9 x 0.1 = 17.69 points on the year

100th best shooter: Jonathan Toews: 2.46 shots per game x 70 games = 172.2 shots x 0.1 = 17.22 points on the year

 

IMO from that quick look at shooters you can expect the best shooter to gain 32 more pool points a year from it, your 100th best to gain at least 15 points and the 17 points differential from best to 12th best really just shows me that only up to a dozen dudes will gain UP TO 17points max on top of the "peleton" on shooters. Every team will likely have 3 players get 17 points, and some teams with the best shooters will get up to 32 points So again big whoop

 

FaceOff Math:

Spoiler

Ryan O'Rielly took 1556 face offs in 2019-20 and won 57.4% of them: so winning 881 x 0.1 = 88.1pool points!

12th best: Mika Zinanejad took 1204 faceoffs and won 49.2% of them: so winning 592 x 0.1= 59.2 pool points

25th best: Ryan Getzlaf took 1034 faceoffs and won 51.3% of them: so winning 530 x 0.1 = 52 pool points

50th best: Evgeny Kuznetsov took 803 faceoffs and won 43.3% of them, so winning 348 x 0.1 = 34.8 pool points

100th best: Nic Dowd took 551 faceoffs and won 49.7% of them, so winning 274 x 0.1 = 27.4 pool points

 

This one is likely the biggest change to our game, in that 88 pool points is pretty big, however considering that 50th best faceoff guy will still get 35 points, that give the best faceoff guy roughly a 50 point advantage...the top 12 have at least a 30 point advantage over the peleton but on the whole, not too many players would be greatly affected. For comparison sake, right now at the quarter pole of our season the better players are earning 122 points for Hedman, 105 for myers, 89 for Klingberg, 131 for hughes, 142 for Draisatl....and all those points with only 15 or 16 games played. They would all go over 450 points in a full 81 game season, so the best faceoff guy getting an additional 50 points above the 'peleton' of faceoff guys isn't that drastic considering there is about 25 guys affected in any big way. Shrug, faceoffs would award the most new points of all four suggestions but it isn't that huge a change. I would still vote for it. 

 

 

Well that is all the procrastination i can squeeze in today: wife asked me if i was gonna use a Zamboni to remove the last 50 tiles or just keep typing until they disappear from wear. lol 

 

I am okay either way with this, but I love the idea to bring more flavour to the full roster. Maybe 2 dozen players will get boosts and likely they are mostly spread among at least 16 teams. If they are clustered on one, that team will simply not be able to afford them as a group for much longer as their value will go up at re-signing and they will spread out naturally that way. 

Edited by Primal Optimist
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I could see where a player singularly outstanding at hitting, faceoffs, blocking and shooting would become a superstud, but Iginla already retired: the few out there would be very few indeed and again hard to keep as they will inflate at contract time if you happen to have the rare unicorn like Jarome Iginla.

 

dangit, yes i am a KING Crastinator. graduated from pro crastinator years ago, hahaha...okay now to the flooring...

 

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32 minutes ago, Primal Optimist said:

I could see where a player singularly outstanding at hitting, faceoffs, blocking and shooting would become a superstud, but Iginla already retired: the few out there would be very few indeed and again hard to keep as they will inflate at contract time if you happen to have the rare unicorn like Jarome Iginla.

 

dangit, yes i am a KING Crastinator. graduated from pro crastinator years ago, hahaha...okay now to the flooring...

 

Am I the only one that saw how overrated Iginla was?

 

I say over-rated not because he wasn't fantastic, because he obviously was....  but he wasn't THAT fantastic.  Rare unicorn? I dunno.  Very effective power forward for a long time and a jack of all trades sure.... but I don't know about rare unicorn.

 

For the record, I can look at hits and blocked shots easily, that's already in their system.  But pickup has no way I can see that tracks shots or faceoff wins.

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8 minutes ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Am I the only one that saw how overrated Iginla was?

 

I say over-rated not because he wasn't fantastic, because he obviously was....  but he wasn't THAT fantastic.  Rare unicorn? I dunno.  Very effective power forward for a long time and a jack of all trades sure.... but I don't know about rare unicorn.

 

For the record, I can look at hits and blocked shots easily, that's already in their system.  But pickup has no way I can see that tracks shots or faceoff wins.

I think faceoff wins would be a really good one based on adding value to guys who deserve it.

 

since 2005 the top 4 faceoff winners are

 

Patrice Bergeron

Sidney Crosby

Jonathan Toews

Anne Kopitar 

 

I don't think it's a fluke that those guys also have a combined 9 Stanley Cups in that same time frame.

 

A few other names near the top of the list have been crucial depth centermen on cup winning teams.

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57 minutes ago, canuck2xtreme said:

For the record, I can look at hits and blocked shots easily, that's already in their system.  But pickup has no way I can see that tracks shots or faceoff wins.

While we're discussing scoring changes, does pickup have the mechanism to track shootout goals?

 

Always found it weird that we give points to goalies who loose in OT/shootout but a guy who contributes a (potentially game winning) goal there gets diddly squat :lol:

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54 minutes ago, da.moose said:

I think faceoff wins would be a really good one based on adding value to guys who deserve it.

 

since 2005 the top 4 faceoff winners are

 

Patrice Bergeron

Sidney Crosby

Jonathan Toews

Anne Kopitar 

 

I don't think it's a fluke that those guys also have a combined 9 Stanley Cups in that same time frame.

 

A few other names near the top of the list have been crucial depth centermen on cup winning teams.

Oh it's not that I don't agree that these are valuable traits or that they should be awarded.

 

It's that pickup doesn't have a way for me to track or add them.

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1 hour ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Am I the only one that saw how overrated Iginla was?

 

I say over-rated not because he wasn't fantastic, because he obviously was....  but he wasn't THAT fantastic.  Rare unicorn? I dunno.  Very effective power forward for a long time and a jack of all trades sure.... but I don't know about rare unicorn.

 

For the record, I can look at hits and blocked shots easily, that's already in their system.  But pickup has no way I can see that tracks shots or faceoff wins.

Perfect

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1 hour ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Am I the only one that saw how overrated Iginla was?

 

I say over-rated not because he wasn't fantastic, because he obviously was....  but he wasn't THAT fantastic.  Rare unicorn? I dunno.  Very effective power forward for a long time and a jack of all trades sure.... but I don't know about rare unicorn.

 

For the record, I can look at hits and blocked shots easily, that's already in their system.  But pickup has no way I can see that tracks shots or faceoff wins.

I lean more towards hits and shot blocks than I do faceoff wins and shots, only cuz I feel the face off winners at the top end of sheer volume and the shot winners at the top end of pure volume are already rewarded with their scoring points, not many huge face off winners have less than 10 goals and 10 assists a year. But a guy who hits loose the puck from the back end after blocking a shot on his own net doesn't necessarily get any point recognition in our league. Rare monkey will get 500 face off wins but few score points. 

I would be just fine doing the two that pickup tracks while we consider the other two: perhaps done every 20 games four times a year as a manual input? dunno just spitballing. I know that any changes need to be for the following season, so its a slow moving thing anyways. Request to pickup they be tracked and see if they add them in the next 6 or 7 months?

all good for discussion though, thanks for chatting it out with us. 

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The thing I dont like about adding f/o and shots is that most of the guys who dominate in those categories already put up a tonne of points by virtue of their skill/position.

 

If we say "guys like Malhotra never piled up points" (for example), which is valid to an extent, once you include hits, PIMS and blocks, your role players will already accumulate points in those categories because of the nature of their shut-down role.

 

Now I know I'm just the new guy, and I'll be fine with however the league chooses to add categories. I just wanted to weigh in.

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2 hours ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Am I the only one that saw how overrated Iginla was?

Unique player.

 

Created either a physical, or skill match up problem every time he was on the ice. Usually both.

 

Maybe he does not deserve his iconic status?  But deserves it much more, say, than Linden. 

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3 hours ago, canuck2xtreme said:

Am I the only one that saw how overrated Iginla was?

 

I say over-rated not because he wasn't fantastic, because he obviously was....  but he wasn't THAT fantastic.  Rare unicorn? I dunno.  Very effective power forward for a long time and a jack of all trades sure.... but I don't know about rare unicorn.

 

For the record, I can look at hits and blocked shots easily, that's already in their system.  But pickup has no way I can see that tracks shots or faceoff wins.

I don't overly disagree with you, you probably nailed it actually. I feel though that in our current Canucks Captain we have a similar guy, does everything better than the average cat and will be in the league a long long time doing it all better than the average guy. That in itself is a massive skillset to have. Petey scares me sometimes in his lack of versatility. Is he the "one"? the Neo of the NHL? probably not long term, sorry Petey, but for now he is going to put up nice points and likely be around a long time doing it, but he is fragile and i don't want him hitting or blocking or anything like that. haha

 

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