Hockey guys take on Canucks off season moves

[Nuxfanabroad]

Pretty good, clear assessment. Glad he didn't hyperventilate about the cap-squeeze, as some fans apparently equate that with a Hindenburg landing.

Did he mix OJ & Benn for sides? Be interesting to see who squeezes in on rhd-depth. If Nik can get back, we're golden.

 

We HAVE our 1st this yr!!! That's the biggie, on what our lil' run accomplished. Totally releases the pressure, & makes the Miller deal irrefutable.

So why not play the kids? The guys we let go are quality people, & great players. But we added a lot of talent too. NS usually healthier than CT, as well.

 

With the ED approaching(& COVID mayhem) we had to be decisive, & we certainly were.

Might be a half-step back, after two big strides forward..so can't complain about that.

[xereau]

My take: We have a phenomenal young core, several up and comers who will step into the place of those who left, and this team should be better than last year.

[10pavelbure96]

I really dont think we lost much. It looks worse on paper than it actually is imo.

 

Tanev is often Injured, yes its noticeable when hes out of the lineup but adding Schmidt makes our defense a lot more mobile and offensive. Yes we lose the shutdown element Tanev brings but the offense and mobility is an upgrade imo.

 

Holtby is not much worse than Markstrom if at all and Demko really showed in the playoffs he's ready to take the next step.

 

Toffoli only played a handful of games for us. It would have been great to have him but it's not a big loss.

 

Stecher and Leivo can easily be replaced.

 

I dont think we regressed at all, or took a big step forward, I'd say we changed our style based on Schmidt alone.

[-AJ-]

50 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

I really dont think we lost much. It looks worse on paper than it actually is imo.

 

Tanev is often Injured, yes its noticeable when hes out of the lineup but adding Schmidt makes our defense a lot more mobile and offensive. Yes we lose the shutdown element Tanev brings but the offense and mobility is an upgrade imo.

 

Holtby is not much worse than Markstrom if at all and Demko really showed in the playoffs he's ready to take the next step.

 

Toffoli only played a handful of games for us. It would have been great to have him but it's not a big loss.

 

Stecher and Leivo can easily be replaced.

 

I dont think we regressed at all, or took a big step forward, I'd say we changed our style based on Schmidt alone.

I love being an optimist, but I think there's some blatantly wrong things here:

 

Markstrom was head and shoulders better than Holtby last year and it wasn't remotely close. We're hoping Holtby bounces back in a big way, which is possible given he's not too far removed from being a great starter, but last year, Holtby wasn't remotely close to Marky's level.

 

That said, I'm not too worried about our tandem. Between the two of them, I think we're pretty well set for a 60/40 split with Holtby likely playing the 60%.

 

Leivo was very underrated, but injured during a lot of last year, so he's replaceable in that sense.

 

Stecher is also replaceable, but I don't think we should be so naive as to think Juolevi, Rafferty, or Rathbone can instantly jump in and be as good as Stecher. While it's entirely possible (I liked Juolevi in his one playoff game), I think his game is probably a bit underrated now that he's off the team.

 

The only certain upgrade I'd say is to our top 4 d, as Schmidt is almost certainly an upgrade over Tanev. I expect our bottom pairing to require extremely sheltered minutes, which will require heavy ice time from our top 4 d, so it's a good thing they're improved. Our forward group is absolutely downgraded, but we can live with that, as it was already a position of strength for us. I'm not worried about it.

 

All in all, I'm not terribly worried and even excited for next year, but I do think on paper (barring any surprises), we've downgraded a bit.

[xereau]

46 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I love being an optimist, but I think there's some blatantly wrong things here:

 

Markstrom was head and shoulders better than Holtby last year and it wasn't remotely close. We're hoping Holtby bounces back in a big way, which is possible given he's not too far removed from being a great starter, but last year, Holtby wasn't remotely close to Marky's level.

 

That said, I'm not too worried about our tandem. Between the two of them, I think we're pretty well set for a 60/40 split with Holtby likely playing the 60%.

 

Leivo was very underrated, but injured during a lot of last year, so he's replaceable in that sense.

 

Stecher is also replaceable, but I don't think we should be so naive as to think Juolevi, Rafferty, or Rathbone can instantly jump in and be as good as Stecher. While it's entirely possible (I liked Juolevi in his one playoff game), I think his game is probably a bit underrated now that he's off the team.

 

The only certain upgrade I'd say is to our top 4 d, as Schmidt is almost certainly an upgrade over Tanev. I expect our bottom pairing to require extremely sheltered minutes, which will require heavy ice time from our top 4 d, so it's a good thing they're improved. Our forward group is absolutely downgraded, but we can live with that, as it was already a position of strength for us. I'm not worried about it.

 

All in all, I'm not terribly worried and even excited for next year, but I do think on paper (barring any surprises), we've downgraded a bit.

The baby core that carried this team is only going to get better.

 

Playoff experience will pay dividends too.

 

The team is better.

[-AJ-]

2 minutes ago, xereau said:

The baby core that carried this team is only going to get better.

 

Playoff experience will pay dividends too.

 

The team is better.

I think it's possible, but that's counting on everyone getting better, which is very possible given the age of our core, but not guaranteed. Petey, Hughes, etc. should be better, but we can't know that for certain until the season begins.

[ilduce39]

55 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think it's possible, but that's counting on everyone getting better, which is very possible given the age of our core, but not guaranteed. Petey, Hughes, etc. should be better, but we can't know that for certain until the season begins.

I don’t want to be too dramatic, but it’s almost  as if this core is the real deal we’re going to be as good or better than last year.  (Assuming goaltending holds up.) 
 

It really feels like a team’s fortunes to the top or bottom 80% of the league depends on the quality of your core, top players and just overall coaching / team culture.
 

I like the group, so, if healthy we’re okay.  I’ll actually be a little concerned if we tank with a healthy roster. 

[TNucks1]

7 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Pretty good, clear assessment. Glad he didn't hyperventilate about the cap-squeeze, as some fans apparently equate that with a Hindenburg landing.

Did he mix OJ & Benn for sides? Be interesting to see who squeezes in on rhd-depth. If Nik can get back, we're golden.

 

We HAVE our 1st this yr!!! That's the biggie, on what our lil' run accomplished. Totally releases the pressure, & makes the Miller deal irrefutable.

So why not play the kids? The guys we let go are quality people, & great players. But we added a lot of talent too. NS usually healthier than CT, as well.

 

With the ED approaching(& COVID mayhem) we had to be decisive, & we certainly were.

Might be a half-step back, after two big strides forward..so can't complain about that.

Benn can play both sides.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 hours ago, xereau said:

The baby core that carried this team is only going to get better.

 

Playoff experience will pay dividends too.

 

The team is better.

Other than EP and Hughes, both in their 20s mind you, who is the baby core?

[-Moose]

Love me some Shannon. I have a lot of respect for what he does 

[NorthWestNuck]

I think the one big area where we may have problems next year that gets overlooked is our PK. Both Tanev and Marky were big parts of that and Schmidt, as much of an upgrade over CT as that is, in my opinion doesn’t fill that hole. If someone else can then great, and with some of our killers like Motte and Beages I don’t know that it’s a big hole, but I have my concerns.

Edited November 4, 2020 by NorthWestNuck

[Alienhuggyflow]

15 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Pretty objective analysis.

 

Overall, I'd say that the Canucks did take a minor step back this off-season with the loss of Tanev, Markstrom.  However, depending on how Holtby perform and young guys like Rafferty, Juolevi, Lind, Virtanen and Rathbone develops, there is a chance that we could be on par with last year.  Where we will take a step forward is the next 3 years....cap wise because we didn't replace all these guys will long-term deal.  We will have more money after Luongo, Eriksson and Baerstchi are gone, not only to sign Hughes and EP but also to had quality players like Tampa did with McDonough, Bogosian, Coleman.

 

On the other hand signing these players just to stay on par in 2021 or a small step forward with another year with the same group, we would have taken a step backward once the new deals to EP and Hughes kicked in.  We wouldn't have any money left to continue to improve the roster and would end up taking a bigger step backward then.

 

Long term, no doubt these were the decision that needed to be made.

 

 

I might be in the minority and admittedly I thought the Marky hype was getting a bit much and Tanev numbers without Quinn were nothing special and Quinn had much better numbers away from him. 

Marky had the same save% as Koskinen and I know analytics say Marky was elite but analytics especially with goalies can be misleading.

To me I saw a goalie who was prone to giving up the 1st goal a lot and seemed to blow multiple-goal leads quite a bit. During the bubble he had some good games that boosted his numbers but against the Wild he wasn't the reason why we won. Against the Blues he again wasn't the reason we won and I thought he sucked minus game 2 against Vegas.

Our top six was good all season before TT and was very good in the playoffs without TT and I think the young core will take another step this season.

Our bottom six might be overpaid but Sutter, Beagle, Motte are all good in the roles they are used in and hopefully Rousell plays like he did before he was hurt. I think the wild-cards are if Ferland can play and if Jake and Gaudette can build of their solid regular seasons.

On D Nate makes our top four better along with Quinn taking another step.

Joulevi is a very talented kid with a much higher ceiling than any of the D we lost and along with Rafferty, Rathbone and Breeze, our bottom pairing has the chance to possibly be better, at the very least better at getting the puck out.

Again glass-half-full but I think our tandem in net will be very good for us, especially in the games that matter. Both have shown the ability to step up their game Demko was a small sample size but he's been doing it at every level and Holtby is a cup winner who gets to reinvent himself with the goalie whisperer. 

Sure a lot of things have to go the right way but asking one of Joulevi, Rathbone or Rafferty to replace Stech isn't crazy, neither is  expecting   to improve on our bottom 10 GA which I think is possible if our 3rd pairing and PK can be better.  If   Benn ends up as our 7th D because 2 rookies outplay him or we add someone like Vats or Hamonic,  that would go a long way as well IMO.  

[WeneedLumme]

11 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I think it's possible, but that's counting on everyone getting better, which is very possible given the age of our core, but not guaranteed. Petey, Hughes, etc. should be better, but we can't know that for certain until the season begins.

Of course nothing is certain except death and taxes. But given the age of our core and prospects, it is more than possible that they will continue to improve, it is highly probable. I would be very surprised if at least several of our younger players/prospects do not set new career high water marks, and it would be no huge surprise for them all to do so.

[D-Money]

19 hours ago, spur1 said:

Disagree that TT was a big loss even though he would have been nice to keep as he may have been an addition. However he was only a replacement while Brock was injured. Tanev was replaced with Schmidt who may even be an upgrade. So what really did we lose?  Leivo would be lucky to make the lineup on a nightly basis. Tony was/is a third pairing small D who is replaceable with the youngsters. I will however miss the Tony meme as he was the spitting image of a late friend. 

Schmidt “may even” be an upgrade on Tanev? He’s a massive upgrade. His addition is even bigger than adding Miller last year.

 

But let’s not miss the elephant in the room. Markstrom was a big loss, at the most important position in hockey. When he was injured last year we had one of the worst records in the league. Maybe Demko continues to step up, and maybe Holtby regains his form, but even if they do it probably won’t be Vezina-calibre. Even if Schmidt is awesome and the young guys take another step forward, it may not be enough to overcome the drop in goaltending.

[apollo]

On 11/3/2020 at 10:40 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

I think he's right about where we'd likely end up in a Canadian division, around 4th or 5th. Unless things go very very well for us.

 

Hockey guy puts out some good content and knows his stuff but this time I think he's off big time. 

 

IMO it's incredibly silly to have us 4th or 5th in a Canadian division... Would be willing to bet good money that the Canucks go deeper than any team in Canada

 

Are we forgetting that we were 1 PP goal on the reeves major away from being in the west final? We defeated the reigning cup champs in short order... got through a much better Wild team than they were all season with the coaching change...

 

There's no team in the league that has a phenom Center and franchise dman getting $925k next year. None. Guys like Brock , Bo, JT all getting incredibly reasonable $5.2-5.8 contracts... 

 

Our kids will be stronger and better next year.

 

Anyone that thinks the Canucks are in for a regression is going to be surprised.

 

Stay optimistic (don't focus on the 4 million Eriksson is overpaid and think about the 9 million Petey is underpaid) and just let Jim figure things out. Our opening night roster will be cup caliber

 

2021 is our year.

Edited November 4, 2020 by apollo

[IBatch]

Definitely wouldn’t say we took a step back, feel we are about even - before any rookies or core improvements factor in.  At worse feel we will have a similar season to last year, at best a good improvement overall.   And the best part is JB set us up for when it truly matters in a year or two.  

[Canuck Surfer]

On 11/4/2020 at 4:08 AM, Gassy Jack said:

I found this an pretty interesting and level take.

Well the guy, basically markets himself as a reasonable fans voice.  Does his analysis as if he's impartial.

 

My own take, funny enough is not dissimilar?  And I also see myself as a reasonable guy.

 

And I agree with him on several counts; including the most controversial. I have been echoing since he was acquired, that we were never designed to keep Toffoli. I believe if Boeser was not hurt? We would not have made the trade! Toffoli was only acquired, as it appeared we would be without our top line RW'er. And Benning did not want to mail in a year that otherwise looked promising.

 

Should we have re-signed Toffoli? No. Then we have no room for the Schmidt acquisition.

 

Should we have re-signed Tanev?  I wanted to. But was generally neutral, not adamant.  Happy when a better replacement was sorted. 

 

Should we have re-signed Markstrom? Not at the price he commanded.  We had a very viable youth option.

 

Are we better or worse than last year?  My take, slightly worse. In spite of being neutral to positive on views. Better than LAST year, no. But I take a longer term view.   And for example, I like his take on Tanev. He is very good, he was effective, but his better days were behind him. 

 

Where we are worse? Schmidt is a lefty who can play right. We lost righty Tanev. Unsaid, we also lost RHD Stecher. HG's point was we made room for youth. Dont think I heard Troy's name past the intro though... Youth is a valid point?  It still appears Schmidt will play his off side.  As we just dont have a superlative RHD. And either Benn, or that youth guy Juolevi will play on their off side.  One reason we were better this year?  We had a natural balance of lefty / righty D 85 to 90% of games.  And Stecher, despite being small, plays a pretty stout, honorable game. Battled hard.  Juolevi & (RHD) Rafferty are more skilled. Just do not, have not anyway, bring the same battle level.  We could be more fun to watch? Even further unleash our offense? Demko could replace Maky, but I dont agree Holtby will. I have no doubt we will have more goals for & against. Anytime you slide defensively, the team goes a bit backwards.

 

 

Are we better or worse all together? In the long run. Better! 

 

Stecher was not part of the core. Even his $1.9 mill would have had more negative effect than positive.  Tanev was not part of our future core. Nor Marky.  We made the pragmatic decisions. A step back to take steps forward...

 

I liked that we kept Virtanen!  Yeah, I am disappointed he does not appear he will hit any ceiling he was capable of. He is functional. Actually important! Like Boston beat our 2011 team physically, so did Las Vegas this year. They have 5 guys with Jakes speed and size.  Which smothered our D. Motte, in spite of size, brings an element which wins contests. Bo muscles around lots of corners? We have to continue to not just improve skill. Continue to add players add players opposition cannot handle.  

 

When? 2020/21. We have superpb athletes coming to our forward group. Podkolzin's floor is Alex Tuch. Smaller, but plays like a Tazzy Devil. Hoglander will be the single best athlete we have had in years. Yes, counting Quinn Hughes. Pettersson's gumby like puck control, balance. The kid Hoglander is in your face, has endurance. He's digging when a Luke Schenn wants to tie it up. Explodes to the net dangling. Schenn would have no hope. Somebody as strong as Bo, Podz will have any other D tied up.  

 

Raftbone will be drifting in to hammer the puck, as Hogz draws the forwards back! Natural RHD Jetts Woo should start clearing corners. If he is not ready? We also start having cap. Can re balance pairs. Juolevi is dynamite at stretch passes. Hughes & Rathbone will lug it & forwards will be up ice. Vegas wins with heavy. But guys like Hogz, Huggy & Rathbone will leave them dragging their asses+, busting for puff. Looking old? Stone might trump Boeser, but we cant win every match up. Patches wont be able to keep up to Jake! And I don't think they will have the skill of Hughes or Pettersson; then entering their prime.        

 

 

[atomickronic420]

On 11/3/2020 at 10:58 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

I think you're forgetting about how much the ref's will be tilted to Toronto and Montreal. 

... And Edmonton

[cripplereh]

well after last year being the best Canadian team I think for me the playoffs is the only things that matters and season stats are not important if you make the playoffs.

 

I think he was right about most things, but Holtby has been better then Markstrom in his career cept for last year , which to me Holby will have a bounce back year and prove his wealth!

 

To bad we could not keep Toff but we did just fine with out him which most forget.

 

This year we should see more young players step up and take the next step to keep us in a playoff spot and that is what I see!!

[kloubek]

To me, our season depends on a lot:

-Is having a legit 2a in Schmidt going to be enough to keep it in the other end so much more? How well does Schmidt play defensively after the move? Can OJ pick up the slack?

-Young unproven guys might step up. Our young PROVEN guys continue to improve and get bigger and stronger- in particular Petey and Huggy.

-Jake Virtanen needs to step it up and be top 6... otherwise we just haven't replaced Toffoli and that extra skill up front.

-Are we depending on Benn or a young pup for 3rd RD role? Dangerous, but potentially doable.

-Perhaps biggest one to me: Goaltending. Can Holtby bounce back under Clark OR does Demko run with it? One will need to happen.

 

I agree with the above that I see us 1st to 5th.