Hockey guys take on Canucks off season moves

[iinatcc]

On 11/3/2020 at 10:02 PM, peaches5 said:

Schmidt is criminally underrated. He is light years better than Tanev. Markstrom was consistent for us but he was no Luongo. I think Demko will be fine as long as he can stay healthy. I don't think any canadian team really got that much better with the exception of Montreal but they were god awful and everything rides on Price if he goes down they are a bottom feeder. We will be right near the top if healthy. 

It's hard to compare Luongo with Markstrom considering Markstrom still has more elite years left. 

[Kevin Biestra]

34 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

It's hard to compare Luongo with Markstrom considering Markstrom still has more elite years left. 

 

Even if Markstrom maxes out his potential every year starting now, he'd be hard pressed to compete with Luongo's career years.

[IBatch]

49 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Even if Markstrom maxes out his potential every year starting now, he'd be hard pressed to compete with Luongo's career years.

Yep.   He was a top five goalie before he came here, and then a top 1-3 goalie for several years.   Back to top five by the time he left and remarkably consistent his entire career, right until the end.   Never won a Vezina but the year he lost to Broduer was better then most Vezina’s, I’ve seen since what the exception of maybe Carey Price’s.   Still not a fan of SO’s, think that every goalie since we’ve been doing that should have all their W’s and OTL compiled under the old tie column (because that’s what they would be)....400 wins used to be a lock for the HHOF, with the exception of Cujo who’s actually a decent Luongo comparable, he was robbed of one Vezina too, believe it was Kolzig who won that year (not that Broduer robbed Luongo really, just unfortunate timing), the difference is Luongo’s gold medals.   
 

Lundqvist especially feasted in the SO...61 wins ... that would leave him just outside looking in at 398 career wins if those were moved into the tie column, there is zero sense in tabulating it any other way, same way a skills competition should be weighted so heavy in the standings.  100 points used to be a remarkable team achievement, now it’s ordinary.   It also goes to show how extremely hard it is to get to 400ws as a goalie. 

 

On that Luongo would drop close to Sawchuk win levels too...second most games played but not even close to third place anymore all-time in the wins column, fortunately for him he didn’t feast on them as much but was in so many of them he also padded his stats a lot.    MAF too.   Well virtually any goalie who’s played a long career post tie’s. 
 

All three of these guys are either locks or strong candidates for the HHOF, but I do hope hockey historians won’t lose sight of this one key stat buster.

 

   Osgood also has 400 wins, won three cups and two as a starter, plus was the main reason they went to back to back finals late in his career, criminally underrated IMO, much like Crawford in CHI was just considered good enough to win cups - not necessarily a key contributor- although both are/were for sure.   Especially those late 2000’s runs.  
 

Vernon is another ... one of only a few goalies to start for two cup teams.   Almost 400 wins as well.   Most guys just remember him fighting Roy, some of us remember his deadly glove hand and how he was the only reason other then Otto kicking it in that they got past us and won a cup.  

[Kevin Biestra]

16 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Vernon is another ... one of only a few goalies to start for two cup teams.   Almost 400 wins as well.   Most guys just remember him fighting Roy, some of us remember his deadly glove hand and how he was the only reason other then Otto kicking it in that they got past us and won a cup.  

 

Vernon

Barrasso

John Ross Roach

 

My continuing HOF campaign.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Vernon

Barrasso

John Ross Roach

 

My continuing HOF campaign.

At least Wilson and Zubov finally got in.  Zubov scoring 73 or so points the year after the lockout at 37 or so just goes to show how much the way the game used to play shrunk a lot of guys stats.  Was a very tough era that mirrored the 70’s broad street bullies rough and tumble hockey IMO.  The mid-late 90’s early 2000’s wasn’t a type of hockey that would favour EP or QHs well.    And for me at least it just shows how great the stars of the late 80’s and early 90’s really were given that in their mid 30’s or even late 30’s could still outproduce the next crop of stars for the most part.   Guys like Craig Ludwig and Hatcher just died after the lockout, couldn’t keep up and couldn’t adjust.    But before they were invaluable. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by IBatch

[RWMc1]

Virtanen is replacing Eriksson in the top 6 not Toffoli. I think he can handle it and brings elements that Loui doesn't.  Toffoli was a stop gap for Boeser. Once the COVID effect happened. I doubt he was ever seriously considered. As expected, Benning went goalie, then RD as priorities.

 

Juolevi/Rathbone are replacing Benn/Fanta. Benn/rookie are replacing Stecher unless another acquisition is made.

 

Like a lot of fans, he's undervaluing our role players. If healthy our top players can hang with any team in the League. With the Playoff experience and how they stepped up, we should be in the mix next season.

[qwijibo]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:47 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree, we may have got better. Just have to wait and see how the kids perform. 

 

maybe when Montreal gets to begin the 3rd period with a power play  4 or 5 games in a row you'll believe me 

Vancouver had the 7th best net penalty totals in the league this year.  They had 19 more power plays (283) than penalty kills (264) (net -19) 

 

Montreal had the 4th worst ratio.  They had 217 power plays and had to kill 243 (net 26)

 

That doesn’t really paint the picture you’re suggesting. 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Vancouver had the 7th best net penalty totals in the league this year.  They had 19 more power plays (283) than penalty kills (264) (net -19) 

 

Montreal had the 4th worst ratio.  They had 217 power plays and had to kill 243 (net 26)

 

That doesn’t really paint the picture you’re suggesting. 

I'm just complaining because I hate it when Montreal fans start singing at Rogers Arena. 

[qwijibo]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm just complaining because I hate it when Montreal fans start singing at Rogers Arena. 

I actually hate the “ole’ ole” crap too. 

[Gawdzukes]

I think we've improved where it counted most. That's on D. Despite all the clamouring about Tanev's shut down skill, cool as a cucumber puck moving defenceman I've never really bought into it. I do love how committed he is but a lot of that is a result of him not making better plays in the first place. As the playoffs progressed and especially against Vegas I thought he was Gawd awful in his own end running around like a tire fire and making horrible clearing attempts and reads. I'm glad we can finally move on from him regardless of any ho hum analysis metrics. Also, Stetcher, was absolutely undone in his own end in the playoffs even though I love the guys heart. 

 

In net it's a bit of a toss up. I could easily see Holtby bouncing back with a new and exciting hockey challenge in front of him. We really don't know how Markstrom will respond in Calgary either, and even if he's decent we were moving on with Demko anyway.

 

Up front we're pretty much the same which was good enough last year, plus we have the possibility of some added youth, although Lind is the only one I realistically see having a shot.

 

The Covid cap has almost helped us more than hindered us as we are now excellently prepared for the ED, plus improving our team in the next year or two when our cap situation improves. 

 

I like it. At least we won't see that lame ass D anymore. I'm excited at the possibility to improve in the future.

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, qwijibo said:

I actually hate the “ole’ ole” crap too. 

Then don’t go to their barn ever.   Could be down 6-1 and score a goal and it’s like they won the cup with their chanting.   ...really it’s a little endearing and found myself caught up in it a little...as long as we are winning ha ha ha

[qwijibo]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Then don’t go to their barn ever.   Could be down 6-1 and score a goal and it’s like they won the cup with their chanting.   ...really it’s a little endearing and found myself caught up in it a little...as long as we are winning ha ha ha

They often break it out way to early. 

[Lazurus]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:04 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

On 11/3/2020 at 8:52 PM, Ferlands_Head said:

I don't agree on that either. I think we would be top 3 in a Canadian division. 

 

Our young core will be another year stronger. Also don't underestimate the impact of Schmidtty, we score alot of our goals in transition off the rush and with him/Hughes on the ice for 45+ mins a game we will spend less time defending and alot more time attacking. 

 

I may be the minority here but IMO the other Canadian teams didn't improve all that much other than the bottom-feeding Senators who we should still feast on. 

 

Calgary - marginal improvement due to upgrade in goal. Defense is weaker with an aging Gio and losing Brodie. 

Defense is definitely weaker, older and more prone to injury. With Tanev there, the Canucks will know how to exploit his weaknesses. Markstrom is a great goalie, but again, if there is any team that would know how to exploit him, its the Canucks. 

Quote

Edmonton - Improved depth and PP but still lack a goalie. 

Edmonton has a couple of forwards that the defense will really have to manage, as will any team. That being said, their defense and goaltending are ripe for the picking.

Quote

Winnipeg - Added Stastny which is not an upgrade in any way. However, they always give us trouble for some reason. 

The Canucks will need to figure this out, as the Jets seem to have the Canucks number. 

Quote

Toronto - Downgrade, They lost alot of speed and depth in Kapanen and Johnsson. 

Gained a lot of heft though. They have an added level of grit, old grit mind you, that could pose some trouble. 

Quote

Montreal - Lost Domi, if Anderson is as advertised they will be tough but i have my doubts. Weber is another year closer to retirement. 

As with the Leafs, the Canadiens will be a meaner team to play against. Still hoping that either Ferland makes a complete recovery or Benning acquires some more grit to manage a team like this. Weber has aged extremely well, so I don't see him being a breeze to deal with.

Quote

Ottawa - Still a bottom feeder. 

A bottom feeder for sure, but a bottom feeder with a lot of muscle.

Quote

I can see Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver fighting it out for the top 3 spots. 

I see Montreal in the mix over Edmonton. 

Pretty good assessments overall.

On 11/3/2020 at 9:06 PM, ilduce39 said:

Yeah this guy is usually pretty objective.  
 

As it stands, I don’t see how we really improve in net, but the drop off shouldn’t be much with Clark working with Holtby and Demko. I still see this as a position of strength, for sure.  I also think that the team hopefully learned a lot about team defence during the playoff run.  I’ve certainly never seen them play in their own zone with that kind of urgency before. 
 

Defensively, our top 4 looks stronger with a more experienced Hughes and a stud like Schmidt. We’ll miss Tanev’s calming influence but we’re a lot more high tempo with Schmidt.   I think Myers improves a bit as well (He’s got some more O to give) as he gains chemistry and the coaches get to know him.  That offsets any decline from Edler who is still a rock IMO.
 

I think the real wild cards here are Juolevi, Rafferty and Rathbone.  Benn is a vet to stabilize that 6-7 spot if needed... but a healthy Juolevi has that high 1st pedigree and had a great year on the pk, Rafferty is older as a college guy put up a ton of points in the AHL and Rathbone has the most hype out of the 3.  There’s a real chance to add something dynamic instead of the serviceable/stable Fantenburg / Stecher.  We could realistically have 3 pairs who can all transition the puck and add offence. 
 

Up front the top 6 will still produce, for sure. Pearson is the oldest guy at 28. I think Pettersson has league MVP-level talent and drive. Every year just gets him closer to that ceiling. Whether it’s Jake or another piece elevated to top 6 we’re going to score. Jake having a golden chance to play with Petey - if that doesn’t motivate him nothing will (and I’ve heard rumours he’s dialled in.) 

 

I think the bottom 6 has more intrigue than we’re giving them credit for.  Yes, Sutter, Beagle and Roussel feel a little stale... (Although I’m willing to hope Roussel can bounce back after a proper offseason rehabbing that knee injury.) but Gaudette, MacEwen, Motte and Hawryluk are all young enough and bring a ton of energy with some scoring pop.  Lind apparently is a pain to play against as well and could push. 
 

I kind of agree with the Hockey Guy that the serious reinforcements like Hoglander and Podkolzin are likely a year out.  That also gives the Canucks a year to see if Gaudette can handle 3C while Sutter’s contract runs out.  
 

I’m high on this season - we should hold our own in a very competitive Canadian conference.  We also have a pretty clear path to improve in the future at 3C either anointing Gaudette or replacing Sutter. Exciting time to be a Canucks fan. 

I believe that all or most fans end up with blind spots, either in evaluating other teams or their own players.

 

I think Ottawa could over take the Canucks this season, they are younger and the pace of the schedule could help them.

They have cap space and extra picks to pick up players at the TDL without costing too much

They were only 6 wins behind the Canucks last year and were playing against more tougher opponents.

They should have much improved goal tending.

They have pretty decent size with only 4 players under 6'1"

 

Montreal got bigger but are still smallish, that might help in recovery as a smaller person re-hydrates faster

They improved their goal scoring, Domi had a bad year now they added Anderson and Toffoli

They improved their goal-tending, hard to say when they already have Price but the backup hardly won a game.

They got much younger and much older at the same time, Weber could fall off the cliff this year.

Still it is hard to find a team with more pure heart and leadership, Gallagher

Their GM is dynamic, if he feels they need something he finds a way to get it done. Hence the big turn over and big names dealt.

 

Toronto still has the potential power house power play.

Andersen has been good but they might still be needing and upgrade as backup.

They got bigger, tougher and wiser, adding Thorton with Spezza should get them into the top in Canada or close to it

They have mucho depth and leadership

 

Winnipeg upgraded the #2 center position

They have one of the very best goalies but need Brossoit to return to his form of 2 years ago.

Their defence is still suspect but they are extremely deep at forward even with Wheeler wearing down.

They are a team that is capped out as well but have more quality depth.

 

Edmonton has McDavid, that should all that needs to be said but add in Draisatl.

They had a outstanding PP last year and have added a ture PP quarterback in Barrie

Their goaltending is still suspect but they may be able to address that as the season goes on or at the TDL

They have enough fire power to maintain a playoff spot even if they suffer in goal.

 

Calgary improved.

Their defence got tighter

The goaltending should be improved considerably

Their forward depth got better.

With the improved defence their game may change to more of a defensive style taking some pressure off Gaudreau, Monohan and Tkachuk.

 

[Amebushi]

Good analysis and good conversation in here. I agree with most of it. It might just be the homer in me but I think Canucks are top 3 in Canada. We were definitely the best team last year and I don’t feel that much he changed. I expect to see a different style of play next year than we are used to we have multiple D men that can move the puck and put a little speed behind it. Our PP should be better while the PK May suffer a bit. Forward group really isn’t much different on paper. TT was always an injury replacement for Brock to ensure the playoffs happen and we don’t lose next years first round pick. JV will have his chance to prove he can play top 6 consistently and the goalies are going to be what they are. Markstrom wanted too much term at too many dollars to keep. Holtby has to be a solid backup, not an all star. It is Demko that we are counting on to step up and play the tough minutes. I for one believe that Edmonton and Toronto are still dumpster fires from an organizational standpoint and all the firepower up front isn’t going to change the lack of a team mentality. Ottawa and Montreal have improved and could surprise a few but I think are still below us. Winnipeg should be an easy win, but never are. Calgary is the other team I would say has a decent shot of making a big step forward this year (followed by several steps back). Markstrom and Tanev will definitely help their defensive issues at the loss of Brodie. This will drew up their offensive players to be a little looser knowing that a calm presence is in net and at the blue line. I just don’t see Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, or Edmonton beating us in a playoff game or late season battle that means something. Our crew has been through a lot and are better for having been there. 

[Mathew Barzal]

This guy is nice background braindead listening but does anyone actually take what he says seriously? 

[Ferlands_Head]

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Pretty good assessments overall.

I believe that all or most fans end up with blind spots, either in evaluating other teams or their own players.

 

I think Ottawa could over take the Canucks this season, they are younger and the pace of the schedule could help them.

They have cap space and extra picks to pick up players at the TDL without costing too much

They were only 6 wins behind the Canucks last year and were playing against more tougher opponents.

They should have much improved goal tending.

They have pretty decent size with only 4 players under 6'1"

 

Montreal got bigger but are still smallish, that might help in recovery as a smaller person re-hydrates faster

They improved their goal scoring, Domi had a bad year now they added Anderson and Toffoli

They improved their goal-tending, hard to say when they already have Price but the backup hardly won a game.

They got much younger and much older at the same time, Weber could fall off the cliff this year.

Still it is hard to find a team with more pure heart and leadership, Gallagher

Their GM is dynamic, if he feels they need something he finds a way to get it done. Hence the big turn over and big names dealt.

 

Toronto still has the potential power house power play.

Andersen has been good but they might still be needing and upgrade as backup.

They got bigger, tougher and wiser, adding Thorton with Spezza should get them into the top in Canada or close to it

They have mucho depth and leadership

 

Winnipeg upgraded the #2 center position

They have one of the very best goalies but need Brossoit to return to his form of 2 years ago.

Their defence is still suspect but they are extremely deep at forward even with Wheeler wearing down.

They are a team that is capped out as well but have more quality depth.

 

Edmonton has McDavid, that should all that needs to be said but add in Draisatl.

They had a outstanding PP last year and have added a ture PP quarterback in Barrie

Their goaltending is still suspect but they may be able to address that as the season goes on or at the TDL

They have enough fire power to maintain a playoff spot even if they suffer in goal.

 

Calgary improved.

Their defence got tighter

The goaltending should be improved considerably

Their forward depth got better.

With the improved defence their game may change to more of a defensive style taking some pressure off Gaudreau, Monohan and Tkachuk.

 

I'm still not sold on the Sens tbh, 

 

Ottawa Senators

 

Fowards - Down the middle they got White (who was heavily sheltered last year) Tierney and Anisimov (nothing to write home about). They upgraded their top 6 with Dadonov but losing Duclair almost offsets that. barring any surprises( Stuetzle or Norris) they'll struggle to score again. 

 

Defense - After Thomas Chabot there's a massive drop off. Brannstrom may be NHL ready but still needs to be sheltered and they have nobody to do it. On the right side their top 2 is Gudbranson and Zaitsev. 

 

Goaltending - I may be the minority but i don't think Matt Murray is a good goaltender. A lateral move or marginal improvement over Anderson IMO. 

 

No doubt the Sens will be better than last season but I don't think they're even close to being a playoff team much less pass the Canucks. 

 

I agree with your assessment of the Habs completely. 

 

Toronto Maple Leafs

 

Losing Johnsson and Kapanen is going to hurt but i think will be offset a bit by Matthews having a career year and their young core improving. In terms of toughness they've improved a bit, adding Bogo and Simmonds but losing Clifford. On D Brodie is an upgrade on Ceci and Reilly will bounce back having a better partner and taking over PP1 minutes. Unfortunately they're my pick to finish at the top of the Canadian division as much as I despise them

 

Winnipeg

 

The Jets are practically the same team as last season.

 

Forwards - Even with Wheeler slowing down it will be offset by Connor improving. Stastny at this point of his career isn't an upgrade on Roslovic IMO . They'll be battling for a playoff spot. 

I agree with your other assessments. 

 

Edmonton Oilers 

 

Agree with your assessments

 

Calgary Flames 

 

I'm not sure how much their D has tightened up TBH. Giordano isn't the player he was, is another year older and lost his D partner Brodie. Last season Hanifin and the departed Hamonic had the toughest match-ups I guess signing Tanev somewhat negates that loss. Their bottom pair is also a huge question mark with guys like Valimaki/Kylington/Nesterov/Yelesin (aren't NHL ready yet). The drop off on D will be negated by the huge goaltending upgrade IMO. 

 

 

 

 

[Jai604]

I've been watching The Hockey Guy's videos for a while now.  He always has unbiased and insightful opinions about hockey.  Great channel.