Canucks lineup 2021 season

[Ferlands_Head]

43 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I don’t mind the idea of “spreading the wealth” so to speak in order to create more depth, but I’m not sure if we’re there yet as a team.  We aren’t elite yet and so any attempts to “manufacture depth” would likely just end up being a wet fart.

 

Ferland-Pettersson-Virtanen

Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson

Miller-Gaudette-Boeser

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

 

Is the closest that I can think of in terms of attempting to create three balanced lines, but this would likely result in failure aka the wet fart.

Petterson - Horvat - Miller down the middle is downright scary and not many teams can match that. We're not too far off from turning that wet fart into a strong and loud fart with enough velocity to rattle butt cheeks when released.  This could've been our balanced top 9 in the bubble.

 

Ferland- EP - Virtanen.  Ferland has underrated offensive instincts 

Pearson - Horvat - Toffoli  Tanner and TT have chemistry 

Gaudette - Miller - Boeser  All american line 

 

 

[CaptKirk888]

5 minutes ago, Ferlands_Head said:

Petterson - Horvat - Miller down the middle is downright scary and not many teams can match that. We're not too far off from turning that wet fart into a strong and loud fart with enough velocity to rattle butt cheeks when released.  This could've been our balanced top 9 in the bubble.

 

Ferland- EP - Virtanen.  Ferland has underrated offensive instincts 

Pearson - Horvat - Toffoli  Tanner and TT have chemistry 

Gaudette - Miller - Boeser  All american line 

 

 

Like I mentioned to @DarkIndianRises why do we put our top scorer (Miller) on the 3rd line with less minutes? One of the big reasons Miller had his totals is because he had a ton of primary and secondary assists to Petey's goals and vise-versa.

Also the 3rd line typically is a shut down role with some offence. Why do we want to separate Petey and Miller?

Edited November 6, 2020 by CaptKirk888

[vannuck59]

I think they will expand the rosters to 26 min 30 max

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Do teams typically put 2 of their top 5 scorers on the third line? And why would you put Pettersson with 2 guys he likely would not have chemistry with as they don't have the same IQ?

First line will be Miller - Pettersson- ?

your 2nd line will stand

3rd will likely be Virt-Gaud-Sutter

4th, yup. With maybe BigMac getting time there.

But, who knows? you could be totally on spot, no one has a crystal ball. And who knows what surprises/disappointments will come at camp?

Thanks for reading,

K

I saw that Elias and Virtanen actually had the best "analytic" numbers when they were on a line together.  It passed the eye test for me as well.  Some of it has to do with the fact that Virtanen got to play on the top line when he was engaged and playing well to begin with.  

 

I prefer Jake with Elias and JT, and Boeser on the 2nd or 3rd line...  

 

JT Miller - Elias - Virtanen  

 

At home: 

Pearson - Horvat - Boeser  (we can choose who we match them up against) 

Motte - Beagle - Sutter (our shutdown/matchup line) 

Roussel - Gaudette - Hawerliuk  (put them as 4th line due to minutes played) 

 

Away:  

Pearson - Horvat - Sutter (they would be trying to be our shutdown/matchup line) 

Roussel - Gaudette - Boeser 

Motte - Beagle - Hawerliuk 

 

MacEwen goes in if we lack toughness or in case of injury...  Loui and Lind are next in line.  I actually really like our forwards this year, no issue with giving ice time to any of them, as well as Bailey if he's back. 

 

One important thing to look for:  We need a young guy to emerge as a PK specialist.  Beagle and Sutter are a year or two away from moving on, and we only have Motte as a solid PKer.  Lind, Hawerliuk and Jasek have a great opportunity to grab the bull by the horns and get themselves a spot on the team if they can play PK.  I'd argue that PK is even more important of a role then Power Play.  

[Patel Bure]

11 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Do teams typically put 2 of their top 5 scorers on the third line? And why would you put Pettersson with 2 guys he likely would not have chemistry with as they don't have the same IQ?

First line will be Miller - Pettersson- ?

your 2nd line will stand

3rd will likely be Virt-Gaud-Sutter

4th, yup. With maybe BigMac getting time there.

But, who knows? you could be totally on spot, no one has a crystal ball. And who knows what surprises/disappointments will come at camp?

Thanks for reading,

K

I didn’t post my line-up as a way of advocating it, but rather, to show how ill-fated our attempts to manufacture depth would be (I.e. attempting to create three balanced lines).   My argument is that we’d ultimately have three mediocre lines instead of at least one-two good ones.   I used this argument to support my notion that the Canucks weren’t an elite team as of yet and so any attempts to manufacture depth would likely have an adverse effect.

[Patel Bure]

11 hours ago, Ferlands_Head said:

Petterson - Horvat - Miller down the middle is downright scary and not many teams can match that. We're not too far off from turning that wet fart into a strong and loud fart with enough velocity to rattle butt cheeks when released.  This could've been our balanced top 9 in the bubble.

 

Ferland- EP - Virtanen.  Ferland has underrated offensive instincts 

Pearson - Horvat - Toffoli  Tanner and TT have chemistry 

Gaudette - Miller - Boeser  All american line 

 

 

Now this I might be inclined to exploding as those three forwards are our best forwards.
 

Let me try it off the top of my head:

 

Roussel-Pettersson-Boeser

Ferland-Miller-Virtanen

Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson

Motte-Gaudette-MacEwen

 

Beagle

 

That 2nd line could have some good sandpaper in Ferland’s health held up.

[Gawdzukes]

19 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I don’t mind the idea of “spreading the wealth” so to speak in order to create more depth, but I’m not sure if we’re there yet as a team.  We aren’t elite yet and so any attempts to “manufacture depth” would likely just end up being a wet fart.

 

Ferland-Pettersson-Virtanen

Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson

Miller-Gaudette-Boeser

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

 

Is the closest that I can think of in terms of attempting to create three balanced lines, but this would likely result in failure aka the wet fart.

Real coaches don't throw random players who aren't even regulars on the top line with their best players. It's a cute notion but not based in reality.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

Real coaches don't throw random players who aren't even regulars on the top line with their best players. It's a cute notion but not based in reality.

I agree!   I didn’t post those lines in defense of those lines,   I post that line-up to illustrate that a non-elite team (us) attempting to manufacture depth would likely have an adverse effect.

[Patel Bure]

38 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I agree!   I didn’t post those lines in defense of those lines,   I post that line-up to illustrate that a non-elite team (us) attempting to manufacture depth would likely have an adverse effect.

In all seriousness though, if I was going to even take a STAB at manufacturing depth (which I wouldn’t, I’d probably put Miller with Gaudette on a 2B line of sorts).

 

Roussel-Pettersson-Boeser

Miller-Gaudette-Virtanen

Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson (shut down line but would likely get more minutes than the 2A line above)

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Basically - if the Canucks were to try and manufacture depth, I’d give Gaudette our best winger in JT Miller.

[Patel Bure]

Would the Canucks benefit with an “all the eggs in one basket” approach?  
 

There has been lots of talk in this thread about  whether the Canucks should balance their lines more?  I’m of the opinion that they shouldn’t because any attempt to “manufacture” depth would likely result in three mediocre lines.   The Canucks have come a long way in the last few years, but they aren’t “elite” yet and can’t steamroll teams with 3-4 lines like a Las Vegas can.

 

But what if the Canucks took the opposite approach?   What if the Canucks put all of their eggs in one basket so to speak?

 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson / Hughes-Schmidt

Pearson-Gaudette-Boeser / Edler-Myers

Roussel-Sutter-Virtanen / Juolevi-Benn

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

That top 5 man unit would be as good as any elite top 5 in the league would it not?  Unless I’m incorrect in my assumptions, that 5 man unit should have the potential to dominate any game out there.   
 

Is it wise to put all the eggs in one basket?  Probably not, but it seemed to work quite well for the WCE era right?    
 

On top of that, this would give Adam Gaudette a really good opportunity to take ownership of his game.   Make him the de facto 2nd line center and give him some pretty decent linemates in Boeser and Pearson, with Edler and Myers backing them up.  While that’s not even close to being a an elite 2nd line, it’s not garbage either.  

[IBatch]

On 11/7/2020 at 2:14 AM, DarkIndianRises said:

I didn’t post my line-up as a way of advocating it, but rather, to show how ill-fated our attempts to manufacture depth would be (I.e. attempting to create three balanced lines).   My argument is that we’d ultimately have three mediocre lines instead of at least one-two good ones.   I used this argument to support my notion that the Canucks weren’t an elite team as of yet and so any attempts to manufacture depth would likely have an adverse effect.

The “wet-fart” lineup ha ha good one.   It certainly did show we definitely don’t have enough guns in the top nine to contend with some of the deeper teams in the league. 

However we definitely have two scoring lines, and can manage, and have potential for three both already on the roster (AG/JV) and on the way (Lind/Podz/Hogs)...  

 

I like the idea of putting JV on the top line.   At least for a 10 game tryout.   I’m also a fan of using Bear instead of letting him toil away in the AHL.   He proved to me at least that his concussion issues we’re not a concern.   Plus Boeser had his best season his rookie year with the BBB line, and he’s a more complete player now - better passer, better defensively (anyone else notice how often he was the last one off the ice this postseason putting pressure on their D or coming back to regain possession?)...it’s worth a look at least.

 

This would allow Pearson to drop, Roussel drop and add the depth to the lineup.   Bear is a more creative player then both those guys ... and the second line needs a pass first guy.  Actually felt we could have used him this postseason when offence dried up against Vegas.   His cap counts, why not give him another shot?   If it doesn’t work fine.  If it does then excellent - trade him as a rental or keep him for our own playoff aspirations. 
 

Defensive pairings will have a different look without Stetcher and Tanev, feel that QHs and Myers/Schmidt will get a look, and that a lot depends on both OJ and perhaps Rafferty.   Button is convinced Rafferty is a top four NHL D, wouldn’t that be nice for us.   Benn will likely get the third pairing RHD to start playing with OJ.   

Overall a lot could happen this year.   The core is close to entering its prime.  Some guys are in it already ... the playoffs added a layer to the entire club - they know now they can win, are legitimate and for sure on the rise.   Can’t wait for hockey again. 

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Would the Canucks benefit with an “all the eggs in one basket” approach?  
 

There has been lots of talk in this thread about  whether the Canucks should balance their lines more?  I’m of the opinion that they shouldn’t because any attempt to “manufacture” depth would likely result in three mediocre lines.   The Canucks have come a long way in the last few years, but they aren’t “elite” yet and can’t steamroll teams with 3-4 lines like a Las Vegas can.

 

But what if the Canucks took the opposite approach?   What if the Canucks put all of their eggs in one basket so to speak?

 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson / Hughes-Schmidt

Pearson-Gaudette-Boeser / Edler-Myers

Roussel-Sutter-Virtanen / Juolevi-Benn

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

That top 5 man unit would be as good as any elite top 5 in the league would it not?  Unless I’m incorrect in my assumptions, that 5 man unit should have the potential to dominate any game out there.   
 

Is it wise to put all the eggs in one basket?  Probably not, but it seemed to work quite well for the WCE era right?    
 

On top of that, this would give Adam Gaudette a really good opportunity to take ownership of his game.   Make him the de facto 2nd line center and give him some pretty decent linemates in Boeser and Pearson, with Edler and Myers backing them up.  While that’s not even close to being a an elite 2nd line, it’s not garbage either.  

You just never know.   Wouldn’t say it compares to the lines EDM, TO, TB, COL and maybe WSH and PIT could put out - but after them it lines up better then the rest.   It’s hard to load up one line and succeed.   Just look at the garbage-decent but that’s it, players Crosby has played with over the years...Malkin got Kessel ... he gets Rust or more recently.. gulp... McAan ha ha.  Ovi as an aside, has always had Backstrom or Ostrich boy - a top tier C feeding him pucks to blast.  
 

EP is obviously an elite C that’s just getting going.   Well he’s really a winger, but that’s how exceptional he is, comes in as a winger, plays top C, and last year turned JT Miller into a PGP guy.   I like the idea of Horvat finally getting two excellent wingers though.   Poor guy.   Which is why above I put JV on the top line so at least he has BB, and they have some chemistry together.   On BB, I’m glad he’s proven he doesn’t need EP to pad his stats.   But it is worth noting more then 50% of his first year production was on the PP... and that JV 5 x 5 points per sixty, often playing with worse players - is near the tops in the team.   He’s definitely got the tools to have a big jump in production if he finally can earn a spot.  Consistently.   
 

AG had a poor playoffs, but his regular season was very good for a third liner.   There’s hope for growth in his game too. Sutter should be on the fourth line with Beagle and maybe LE.   
 

And big Zack.   Check out his points per sixty and where he stacks up.  Might surprise a lot of folks to see him way up near the top too.   So anyone suggesting he gets a try out on our top line or in the top six isn’t really out of line stats wise.   You just never know with these guys, some, not many mind you, but some play better in the NHL and get more points, then when they were in the AHL.

 

On that note I believe OJ will be one of those guys.   Because his skill-set and hockey sense especially, are off the charts.    He can make plays that require a NHL skill-set to receive.   His 7.5 minutes was a tiny sample size, but he moved the puck well, skated well, made some very good plays and wasn’t a push over.   
 

The future is bright.   The Canucks are no longer viewed with a critical, negative lens by the media and the experts, many are sold that we are becoming a force both in our division and out of the west.   Larkin, one of my favourite THN writers, predicted we’d have the season we did over a year ago, and that we’d be the next Canadian team to win a cup. 

[DrJockitch]

I think there is probably little use in listing forward lineups.

They just get thrown in the blender so much that half of what is posted here will be right at some point.

I do think some is pretty set in stone though.  The majority of the time Pettey will play with JT, Bo will play with Pearson and Beagle will be the fourth line centre.  Past that it will vary a lot shift to shift.

The D is interesting to try to game out.  Assuming we don't add another righty I would like to see a plan to have both OJ and Rathbone up and playing about 50g each.  OJ has had so many injuries and college guys just aren't used to the grind.  This is going to be a compressed season so expect to see nights where we have three rookie D and a Sophmore in.

Would like to see:

Hughes Schmidt

Edler Rafferty

OJ/Rathbone Myers.

 

Rafferty is our only other right shot but it is just too risky having two rookies as a pairing.  Use Edler as the shutdown vet here.  Rafferty will have room to do the things he can.

Myers can do similar for OJ/Rafferty.  When games are tight, Green can slide Myers up with Edler or go Hughes-Myers, Edler-Schmidt with very sheltered minutes for the Rooks.  

This will be an adventure though not necessarily worse than depending on Benn as an every day player.  Again, expecting 50 games out of the Rookies will leave room for Benn to play as will other injuries.

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

You just never know.   Wouldn’t say it compares to the lines EDM, TO, TB, COL and maybe WSH and PIT could put out - but after them it lines up better then the rest.   It’s hard to load up one line and succeed.   Just look at the garbage-decent but that’s it, players Crosby has played with over the years...Malkin got Kessel ... he gets Rust or more recently.. gulp... McAan ha ha.  Ovi as an aside, has always had Backstrom or Ostrich boy - a top tier C feeding him pucks to blast.  
 

EP is obviously an elite C that’s just getting going.   Well he’s really a winger, but that’s how exceptional he is, comes in as a winger, plays top C, and last year turned JT Miller into a PGP guy.   I like the idea of Horvat finally getting two excellent wingers though.   Poor guy.   Which is why above I put JV on the top line so at least he has BB, and they have some chemistry together.   On BB, I’m glad he’s proven he doesn’t need EP to pad his stats.   But it is worth noting more then 50% of his first year production was on the PP... and that JV 5 x 5 points per sixty, often playing with worse players - is near the tops in the team.   He’s definitely got the tools to have a big jump in production if he finally can earn a spot.  Consistently.   
 

AG had a poor playoffs, but his regular season was very good for a third liner.   There’s hope for growth in his game too. Sutter should be on the fourth line with Beagle and maybe LE.   
 

And big Zack.   Check out his points per sixty and where he stacks up.  Might surprise a lot of folks to see him way up near the top too.   So anyone suggesting he gets a try out on our top line or in the top six isn’t really out of line stats wise.   You just never know with these guys, some, not many mind you, but some play better in the NHL and get more points, then when they were in the AHL.

 

On that note I believe OJ will be one of those guys.   Because his skill-set and hockey sense especially, are off the charts.    He can make plays that require a NHL skill-set to receive.   His 7.5 minutes was a tiny sample size, but he moved the puck well, skated well, made some very good plays and wasn’t a push over.   
 

The future is bright.   The Canucks are no longer viewed with a critical, negative lens by the media and the experts, many are sold that we are becoming a force both in our division and out of the west.   Larkin, one of my favourite THN writers, predicted we’d have the season we did over a year ago, and that we’d be the next Canadian team to win a cup. 

Interesting note about MacEwen.

 

Here’s my thing with Gaudette:   
-He’s not very good defensively, he’s not very good at face-offs, and he’s not what you’d call “gritty.”

-In other words, he is NOT the type of player that you’d want on your bottom 6.

-If Gaudette is going to be a factor on the Canucks, he’ll need to develop into a strong offensive “2A center” that can drive offense.

-However, Gaudette isn’t going to be able to do that if he’s playing with guys like Roussel, Sutter, and Beagle.   Even a Gaudette-Virtanen combo could be risky because they aren’t the greatest offensively, and would be terrible collectively from a defensive standpoint.

 

Hence my suggestion:

-Whether the Canucks would choose to “stack” one line or attempt to manufacture depth, you’d need to place Gaudette into a larger offensive role and surround him with decent linemates in order to maximize Gaudette’s strengths.

-You would have to put Gaudette in the above scenario so that Gaudette would have a much better chance of developing into that kind of “2A” center role.

 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson

Pearson-Gaudette-Boeser

 

Pearson-Horvat-Pettersson

Miller-Gaudette-Boeser

 

Those would be my suggestions if the Canucks felt like they needed to maximize Gaudette, and if Gaudette was ready for such a role.

 

Other thoughts of attempting balance:  
 

Miller-Horvat-MacEwen (set the tone physically)

Roussel-Pettersson-Boeser (Pettersson goes back to center while Roussel provides sandpaper and defensive awareness)

Pearson-Gaudette-Virtanen (Gaudette gets some decent scoring linemates, while Pearson brings a defensive conscience to it).

 

 

[Patel Bure]

Stack revisited
 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson / Hughes-Schmidt: A five man unit that would realistically rival the dominance displayed by Sedin-Sedin-Burrows / Erhoff-Edler unit from 2011.   This line would have everything.  PMD’s galore, strong defensively, strong physically, sniping ability, playmaking ability, and face-off ability.   Very few 5 man tandems in the NHL would be able to match this five man unit.  Tampa and maybe 1-2 other teams; that’s it.  

 

Pearson-Sutter-Eriksson /Edler-Benn :   I’m in two minds about this 5 man unit.  On the one hand, this 5 man unit should be able to shut down and contain top lines from other teams, but this 5 man unit could also be susceptible to getting hemmed badly in their own end.   They would contribute nothing offensively, but this could be overlooked IF this 5 man group were dynamite defensively and freed up the other players on the team for more offensive assignments.

 

Virtanen-Gaudette-Boeser / Juolevi-Myers :  This 5 man unit would be potentially disastrous defensively, but would likely be able to provide some solid secondary scoring.  For a less extreme version of this, you could put Pearson and Edler on this 5 man group in case things were too terrible defensively.   Give this line butter-soft offensive minutes and offensive deployment.
 

Roussel-Beagle-Motte:  4th line

I highly doubt that the above arrangement would work, but it is a thought that’s been running in my mind.

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[Slegr]

I sure miss Canucks hockey. It’s weird not having them play in November.

[Patel Bure]

5 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Stack revisited
 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson / Hughes-Schmidt: A five man unit that would realistically rival the dominance displayed by Sedin-Sedin-Burrows / Erhoff-Edler unit from 2011.   This line would have everything.  PMD’s galore, strong defensively, strong physically, sniping ability, playmaking ability, and face-off ability.   Very few 5 man tandems in the NHL would be able to match this five man unit.  Tampa and maybe 1-2 other teams; that’s it.  

 

Pearson-Sutter-Eriksson /Edler-Benn :   I’m in two minds about this 5 man unit.  On the one hand, this 5 man unit should be able to shut down and contain top lines from other teams, but this 5 man unit could also be susceptible to getting hemmed badly in their own end.   They would contribute nothing offensively, but this could be overlooked IF this 5 man group were dynamite defensively and freed up the other players on the team for more offensive assignments.

 

Virtanen-Gaudette-Boeser / Juolevi-Myers :  This 5 man unit would be potentially disastrous defensively, but would likely be able to provide some solid secondary scoring.  For a less extreme version of this, you could put Pearson and Edler on this 5 man group in case things were too terrible defensively.   Give this line butter-soft offensive minutes and offensive deployment.
 

Roussel-Beagle-Motte:  4th line

I highly doubt that the above arrangement would work, but it is a thought that’s been running in my mind.

 

Gaudette promotion theory:

 

Pearson-Horvat-Pettersson / Edler-Schmidt (typical scoring line one)

Miller-Gaudette-Boeser / Hughes-Myers:  (Gaudette gets scoring wingers + defensive and face-off help from Miller + PMD’s to drive offense)

Roussel-Sutter-Virtanen / Juolevi-Benn:  3rd line with minor scoring potential

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen:  Energetic 4th line.

[Patel Bure]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:25 PM, DarkIndianRises said:

“All the eggs in one basket”
 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson

Pearson-Gaudette-Boeser

Roussel-Sutter-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-Eriksson

 

Hughes-Schmidt

Edler-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

@janisahockeynut - I probably wouldn’t go with my “all eggs in one basket” strategy, but you do have to admit that a five Man unit of 

 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson / Hughes-Schmidt would be within the same ball park as 2011 Sedin-Sedin-Burrows / Erhoff-Edler in terms of being able to dominate.

[J.I.A.H.N]

48 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

@janisahockeynut - I probably wouldn’t go with my “all eggs in one basket” strategy, but you do have to admit that a five Man unit of 

 

Miller-Horvat-Pettersson / Hughes-Schmidt would be within the same ball park as 2011 Sedin-Sedin-Burrows / Erhoff-Edler in terms of being able to dominate.

Actually better, IMO.............butttttttt............................

[Patel Bure]

38 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Actually better, IMO.............butttttttt............................

I know.....the rest of the team would be horse manure....but would it really be that awful?

 

Pearson-Gaudette-Boeser / Edler-Myers probably would be “below average” relative to other NHL second line tandems, but it wouldn’t be horrible either.   
 

In my other suggestion, I proposed the following after the “big line”

 

Virtanen-Gaudette-Boeser / Juolevi-Myers:  Give these guys butter soft offensive deployment and offensive zone starts and they’d probably be able to get your very consistent secondary scoring while limiting their potential for defensive disaster.   On the flip side....

 

Pearson-Sutter-Eriksson / Edler-Benn:  Make these guys your shut down line and get them to trap/collapse and take away the center of the ice (similar to how the Canucks played against Vegas in their last three games).   Yes, they would probably get hemmed in their own zone, but these guys are defensively savvy enough as a collective unit to go up against the top 6 of other teams.