Adam Gaudette’s role as a Vancouver Canuck

[JeremyCuddles]

17 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Pretty sure Linden and Manny were not great on face-offs from the get go. 

Pretty sure Linden was a winger converted to center. But I suppose if Manny wasn't great at the start it does give Gaudette hope.

[Junkyard Dog]

Even if he doesn't work out at C he could make a good top 9 RW

 

48 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

This is why he's played with defensive players like Sutter (who also helps him with faceoffs). He will get better wingers in time, but he's being sheltered until he's groomed further. When players like Hoglander/Podkolzin/Lind start joining, the offensive quality will go up on his line. Now he may be moved to wing to get more offensive looks, but his value will be much greater as a center for us. Once he becomes a winger, then the competition amongst the young players will be more fierce.

I also don't believe Hog or Pod will switch to RW. Greener don't like playing people on their off-side as much as I am incline to disagree

 

We could probably see Pearson let go if bothPod/Hog prove they're ready which is a big if, if both are ready. I could see Hog needing a bit more time and Pod being the one coming.

[theo5789]

53 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Even if he doesn't work out at C he could make a good top 9 RW

 

I also don't believe Hog or Pod will switch to RW. Greener don't like playing people on their off-side as much as I am incline to disagree

 

We could probably see Pearson let go if bothPod/Hog prove they're ready which is a big if, if both are ready. I could see Hog needing a bit more time and Pod being the one coming.

Well Podkolzin has played primarily on RW, so it'll be interesting if he gets switched to LW here. Hoglander is getting RW ice time, but I did project him to be a LW here. The point I was making was that we will start seeing an influx of offensive wingers that will up the quality of offensive players that Gaudette could be centering. We don't have a whole lot in the pipeline at bottom 6 centers atm, so Gaudette would be more value at center right now.

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, theo5789 said:

Well Podkolzin has played primarily on RW, so it'll be interesting if he gets switched to LW here. Hoglander is getting RW ice time, but I did project him to be a LW here. The point I was making was that we will start seeing an influx of offensive wingers that will up the quality of offensive players that Gaudette could be centering. We don't have a whole lot in the pipeline at bottom 6 centers atm, so Gaudette would be more value at center right now.

I mean the catch if you play him with offensive players and he isn't good enough yet at D is that line won't be playing as much as the other ones. We both know Green won't play lines he doesn't trust as much defensively as the ones he does.

 

Ideally you'd seek a 3rd C that fits what we need via trade. 

 

Also I have my doubts that Hog makes it next year. We have a looooooooot of wingers already on the team even with Leivo/Toffoli gone. He also has Lind to worry about who has been climbing the ranks in Utica the last 2 years and might be higher up on the readiness charts. We also acquired Hawryluk and have Mac both who play a game we need for the bottom 6. Ferland also wants to come back. 

 

Essentially there's no rush for Hog. He could turn it up to 11 in the SHL and prove me wrong which I more than welcome.

 

If he sticks in Utica and/or we are out of a playoff position I could see him playing up here though, 1/2 through the year.

 

 

[theo5789]

2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I mean the catch if you play him with offensive players and he isn't good enough yet at D is that line won't be playing as much as the other ones. We both know Green won't play lines he doesn't trust as much defensively as the ones he does.

 

Ideally you'd seek a 3rd C that fits what we need via trade. 

 

Also I have my doubts that Hog makes it next year. We have a looooooooot of wingers already on the team even with Leivo/Toffoli gone. He also has Lind to worry about who has been climbing the ranks in Utica the last 2 years and might be higher up on the readiness charts. We also acquired Hawryluk and have Mac both who play a game we need for the bottom 6. Ferland also wants to come back. 

 

Essentially there's no rush for Hog. He could turn it up to 11 in the SHL and prove me wrong which I more than welcome.

 

If he sticks in Utica and/or we are out of a playoff position I could see him playing up here though, 1/2 through the year.

 

 

I believe there was a quote saying that Hoglander will join once his season is done in Sweden, so most likely we don't see him until later in the year anyway. I wasn't saying he was going to make the team immediately, just that we will have decent wingers coming in. Also these wingers don't have to be put with Gaudette. They'll balance it to have defensively responsible players with them.

 

Say if one of the young guys are with Bo, then that could bump down Pearson with Gaudette and Virtanen or something.

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, theo5789 said:

I believe there was a quote saying that Hoglander will join once his season is done in Sweden, so most likely we don't see him until later in the year anyway. I wasn't saying he was going to make the team immediately, just that we will have decent wingers coming in. Also these wingers don't have to be put with Gaudette. They'll balance it to have defensively responsible players with them.

 

Say if one of the young guys are with Bo, then that could bump down Pearson with Gaudette and Virtanen or something.

I see and if that quotes holds up I am a fan of it. Would rather him finish the season there.

 

Maybe. Greener uses to Horvat line as part of the match up duties hence why we saw Eriksson there at RW and not Virtanen. That would work against Hog's favor but could work in Pod's.

 

If we were out of a playoff spot though I wouldn't mind trading Pearson and giving guys like Lind/Hog some top 9 time.

 

Definitely will be interesting to see what happens when we cross those roads.

[theo5789]

4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I see and if that quotes holds up I am a fan of it. Would rather him finish the season there.

 

Maybe. Greener uses to Horvat line as part of the match up duties hence why we saw Eriksson there at RW and not Virtanen. That would work against Hog's favor but could work in Pod's.

 

If we were out of a playoff spot though I wouldn't mind trading Pearson and giving guys like Lind/Hog some top 9 time.

 

Definitely will be interesting to see what happens when we cross those roads.

Yeah plenty of options where I feel it's best to continue to try and groom Gaudette as a center. However until those young guys come in, Gaudette could get some looks at wing as well (since we still have Sutter and Beagle). We saw Horvat deployed in a match up role, but he's not strictly used for that. We use our 4th line more for that and when given the opportunity, Green tried to put more offense on Bo's wing (Boeser was placed there when we had Toffoli). I think Green would want a defensively responsible line with Bo, but I think Green wants that line to produce offense at a high level as well. Definitely this suits Podkolzin more at the moment, but with him and Bo being stronger defensively, then they could use an offensive dynamo to get them going on the other end of the ice as well and Hoglander could fit that bill.

[DrJockitch]

15 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I believe there was a quote saying that Hoglander will join once his season is done in Sweden, so most likely we don't see him until later in the year anyway. I wasn't saying he was going to make the team immediately, just that we will have decent wingers coming in. Also these wingers don't have to be put with Gaudette. They'll balance it to have defensively responsible players with them.

 

Say if one of the young guys are with Bo, then that could bump down Pearson with Gaudette and Virtanen or something.

Hoglander is on loan to Europe and that loan ends in December (19th I think) so that he has time to get to Vancouver and quarantine before the start of camp. 

He doesn't have to wait for the season to end.

I still think Gaudette should stay at centre for the third scoring line.  His game is developing and likely will have some better wingers when we see Hoglander and Podz appear.  Part of the issue he has had is how frequently he has had Sutter on his wing.  He has good chemistry with Jake but if he stays at centre it is because Jake is up the lineup on RW.  Unless someone can come in and improve the wing situation for him it could be Rous and Sutter on his wings and Petterson wouldn't look good between those two.

If Hogz is there, would like to see a sheltered line of Hogz-Gaud-Zack.  Zack has shown some good physicality and desire to go to the net.

Bo's line and Beagle with whatever mix of Motte, Sutter, Roussel, Hawryluck (I will learn his name eventually), Zack and whoever I am forgetting can take the hard minutes.

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I see and if that quotes holds up I am a fan of it. Would rather him finish the season there.

 

Maybe. Greener uses to Horvat line as part of the match up duties hence why we saw Eriksson there at RW and not Virtanen. That would work against Hog's favor but could work in Pod's.

 

If we were out of a playoff spot though I wouldn't mind trading Pearson and giving guys like Lind/Hog some top 9 time.

 

Definitely will be interesting to see what happens when we cross those roads.

Talked about a re-set - or the idea of a down year, if there ever was a good time for one it would be this season.   It’s the perfect time to see what we have that’s a fringe/ up and coming player(s) given our cap constraints, Seattle expansion and to a lesser degree Covid (no fans could settle some rookie nerves).   
 

Like to see Lind get a long look, and especially Rafferty..assume OJ makes the team.   Any of our draft eligible guys need a chance so management can make informed decisions.   Guess maybe hiding them might be an ok strategy too, but look what happened in Vegas with guys like Theodore and Karlsson who never should have been exposed in the first place.   Karlsson is forgivable - nobody saw that coming - but is still a lesson for other GMs ... what if that’s Lind?   For sure we are better of exposing someone else in that case.   
 

Craig Button very early on this year,  that Rafferty is ready for NHL top four duty then...we can only protect three and in this case (if he truly is), exposing Myers wouldn’t be the worst idea - if not, then it for sure is the worse idea, would set our right side back a couple years easily.  
 

Don’t know what the strategy will be this year - other then another playoffs at the end - but hope if we are close but not in they’d at least consider being sellers this year,  have doubts Pearson will be back and is for sure a player we could sell high on if he keeps up his pace which for sure he should in a contract year on our second line.    Could get a similar deal that we paid for TT, or what Coleman got from TB.   
 

Hogs and Podz availability and depending on where they end up and how they do could quite likely allow us to trade Pearson regardless.   Someone has to go the press box or to Utica to make room - and if we have to waive a guy then trading is a better option first. 
 

Look at it as a win win scenario for our club this season.   A lot of our success relies on goaltending, Holtby has been great but hasn’t played behind our team before .... and it’s a lot of pressure to expect Demko ready to play 55 games yet (he has played 45 and 46 back to back in Utica though) ... likely will be a shortened year so this adds to the pile of reasons if there ever was a re-set or transition year this would be the timing for it.    If we end up a playoff team, especially in a tough Canadian division then I’d say we are well on our way to becoming a contender.  If we don’t then use the time wisely along the way including selling whatever we can at the deadline.   Teams won’t have issue adding rentals either as won’t have to use an expansion spot for them - Sutter with 50% retained also makes a lot of sense...(rentals of course meaning guys with no term on their contracts)...

Edited November 14, 2020 by IBatch

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Hoglander is on loan to Europe and that loan ends in December (19th I think) so that he has time to get to Vancouver and quarantine before the start of camp. 

He doesn't have to wait for the season to end.

I still think Gaudette should stay at centre for the third scoring line.  His game is developing and likely will have some better wingers when we see Hoglander and Podz appear.  Part of the issue he has had is how frequently he has had Sutter on his wing.  He has good chemistry with Jake but if he stays at centre it is because Jake is up the lineup on RW.  Unless someone can come in and improve the wing situation for him it could be Rous and Sutter on his wings and Petterson wouldn't look good between those two.

If Hogz is there, would like to see a sheltered line of Hogz-Gaud-Zack.  Zack has shown some good physicality and desire to go to the net.

Bo's line and Beagle with whatever mix of Motte, Sutter, Roussel, Hawryluck (I will learn his name eventually), Zack and whoever I am forgetting can take the hard minutes.

Yeah I know he could join as soon as training camp starts, but I thought I read somewhere that Benning said we will see Podkolzin and Hoglander when their season's end. However, I've been trying to dig where I saw that and can't seem to find it. Although I think it would make more sense for his development to finish out the year there and join us later.

 

I think Gaudette has had enough time in the big leagues that he has to be trusted to not be sheltered anymore. But he's got one more year with Sutter on board to establish himself at least more so on the defensive side of things.

[Crabcakes]

19 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I see and if that quotes holds up I am a fan of it. Would rather him finish the season there.

 

Maybe. Greener uses to Horvat line as part of the match up duties hence why we saw Eriksson there at RW and not Virtanen. That would work against Hog's favor but could work in Pod's.

 

If we were out of a playoff spot though I wouldn't mind trading Pearson and giving guys like Lind/Hog some top 9 time.

 

Definitely will be interesting to see what happens when we cross those roads.

We saw Green using the Horvat line (with Eriksson) to match up in the playoffs, maybe we see it again when the season starts.  The danger I think is getting to rely on Horvat in this role because he also showed what a force he can be offensively.

 

The Canucks certainly have some talent coming on the wings.  Podzolkin by all accounts may be ready for the NHL but should we be rushing him to the top 6?  Having him close may just light a fire under Virtanen because he clearly has an opportunity right now.  I just hope he's bright enough to recognize this and is training his butt off right now.  Hoglander I think may take a little longer but we'll see

 

Pearson I think would be a 3rd liner on a good team.  If you can hang on to that kind of depth it's a good thing

 

Long term, my opinion is that they should be looking for a defensive specialist for 3C, maybe a bigger player which would free up Horvat to take an offensive role.  I don't see anybody in the system who looks like this so he would have to come by trade.  Possible top 9 in 2 years:

 

Miller Petterson Boeser

Hoglander Horvat Podkolzin

Pearson XXXXX Lind

 

 

[Fred65]

Pearson makes approx. the same as Beagle/Rousell and less than Sutter hard to imagine

[Davathor]

On 11/13/2020 at 3:56 AM, IBatch said:

Or make instead we use him to add offense on the third line - exactly what he did last year.   40 points on the third line is very decent production...

 

Im not apposed at all with trying him in the top six - and a big reason for this is Motte impressed me so much in the playoffs in believe he’s earned a promotion to the third line himself.   But I don’t where we’d put him.    
 

Edit:  Move Motte up to the third line and keep AG with Sutter to help him with face offs...that line would have both a defensive and offensive flair - more or less what you want.  
 

On Motte.   He was the best takeaway guy last playoffs in the entire league when we lost.   His stick and hand to eye is off the charts...and he’s shown he can bury the biscuit with the chances he creates.   Would love to see what he could do in a more offensive role ... he’s a hidden gem in our own lineup and has a lot of potential to become this teams version of Hansen IMO...

Appose

verb (used with object), ap·posed, ap·pos·ing.

to place side by side, as two things; place next to; juxtapose

[Baggins]

It doesn't matter what line you are on, unless you are an absolute elite level producer, you will be expected to have a good defensive side to your game. Gaudette is in the bottom six, much the same as Virtanen, to learn that side from veterans who do have it. I doubt he'll ever be a 60+ point player, never mind elite producer. I like his effort level but his defensive play just isn't good enough yet to be a real asset. A 50 point player that is lousy defensively isn't a great asset. They often bounce around from bad team to bad team because they aren't a true asset to a contender. It's the very reason most coaches push the two way game on them while they're young. Malhotra is a good example. He was drafted 7th overall as an offensive center. After being traded and waived he was told by Hitchcock he could be an average top six player with an average career or he could become a defensive specialist with a long career while playing a key role. He put in a lot of effort and learned the defensive side. A 30 point Malhotra is far more valuable to a contender than a 50 pt defensive liability.

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

We saw Green using the Horvat line (with Eriksson) to match up in the playoffs, maybe we see it again when the season starts.  The danger I think is getting to rely on Horvat in this role because he also showed what a force he can be offensively.

 

The Canucks certainly have some talent coming on the wings.  Podzolkin by all accounts may be ready for the NHL but should we be rushing him to the top 6?  Having him close may just light a fire under Virtanen because he clearly has an opportunity right now.  I just hope he's bright enough to recognize this and is training his butt off right now.  Hoglander I think may take a little longer but we'll see

 

Pearson I think would be a 3rd liner on a good team.  If you can hang on to that kind of depth it's a good thing

 

Long term, my opinion is that they should be looking for a defensive specialist for 3C, maybe a bigger player which would free up Horvat to take an offensive role.  I don't see anybody in the system who looks like this so he would have to come by trade.  Possible top 9 in 2 years:

 

Miller Petterson Boeser

Hoglander Horvat Podkolzin

Pearson XXXXX Lind

 

 

Horvat still gets offensive opportunities since he's on the #1 PP. He is still needed in the matchup regard. Eriksson spent time there prior to playoffs too. More time than Virtanen did. Hence why Pod has an edge, he's more of a two-way player than Hog.

 

In two years time? Drop Miller for Hoglander and Horvat's line can match up better than Eriksson/Pearson with having more offense. Could also drop Boeser for Pod if Petey needs a muck and grinder with Hog. Boeser has spent time with Bo when we had Toffoli and during Virtanen's short stint with Petey/Miller.

 

Also Pearson could be gone due to us having to re-sign Gaudette/Petey/Demko/Hughes next year. Pearson's probably gonna want a bit of a raise since he'll be 29. Could end up trading him too if we're well out of the playoff race by TD.

[Junkyard Dog]

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

Talked about a re-set - or the idea of a down year, if there ever was a good time for one it would be this season.   It’s the perfect time to see what we have that’s a fringe/ up and coming player(s) given our cap constraints, Seattle expansion and to a lesser degree Covid (no fans could settle some rookie nerves).   
 

Like to see Lind get a long look, and especially Rafferty..assume OJ makes the team.   Any of our draft eligible guys need a chance so management can make informed decisions.   Guess maybe hiding them might be an ok strategy too, but look what happened in Vegas with guys like Theodore and Karlsson who never should have been exposed in the first place.   Karlsson is forgivable - nobody saw that coming - but is still a lesson for other GMs ... what if that’s Lind?   For sure we are better of exposing someone else in that case.   
 

Craig Button very early on this year,  that Rafferty is ready for NHL top four duty then...we can only protect three and in this case (if he truly is), exposing Myers wouldn’t be the worst idea - if not, then it for sure is the worse idea, would set our right side back a couple years easily.  
 

Don’t know what the strategy will be this year - other then another playoffs at the end - but hope if we are close but not in they’d at least consider being sellers this year,  have doubts Pearson will be back and is for sure a player we could sell high on if he keeps up his pace which for sure he should in a contract year on our second line.    Could get a similar deal that we paid for TT, or what Coleman got from TB.   
 

Hogs and Podz availability and depending on where they end up and how they do could quite likely allow us to trade Pearson regardless.   Someone has to go the press box or to Utica to make room - and if we have to waive a guy then trading is a better option first. 
 

Look at it as a win win scenario for our club this season.   A lot of our success relies on goaltending, Holtby has been great but hasn’t played behind our team before .... and it’s a lot of pressure to expect Demko ready to play 55 games yet (he has played 45 and 46 back to back in Utica though) ... likely will be a shortened year so this adds to the pile of reasons if there ever was a re-set or transition year this would be the timing for it.    If we end up a playoff team, especially in a tough Canadian division then I’d say we are well on our way to becoming a contender.  If we don’t then use the time wisely along the way including selling whatever we can at the deadline.   Teams won’t have issue adding rentals either as won’t have to use an expansion spot for them - Sutter with 50% retained also makes a lot of sense...(rentals of course meaning guys with no term on their contracts)...

Right now I have Lind higher up on the readiness charts which is no flak to Hoglander, it's just Lind has had the advantages of playing in Utica, learning systems/coaches and being in arms length of the organization. He's also been progressing well too. I could see Hoglander leapfrogging Lind soon though.

 

Same sort of deal with Rathbone too. OJ has been with the organization and had an advantage of playing in Utica sticking around for the playoffs during the bubble. It might not seem like much but it's actually huge for a young player on the cusp to practice with the team given these circumstances.

 

If we're in a playoff spot IDK if Green will play many rookies if they join mid-way through the year with an exception to Pod who I think Green is gonna love. Maybe if Hog joins the team when training camp starts and really proves capable. Big ask though with our plethora of wingers but never say never. 

 

I also see us keeping Pearson if we're within a playoff spot. I would like to see him gone if we're out of the picture for sure and maybe even a Sutter/Benn as well.

 

Rafferty's at that age where we need to see him so I see him stepping into a 7th role which isn't a bad thing. Remember Mac was our 13th forward all year and being around the team so long played dividends. Although he played only 17 regular season games his time here earned him 6 playoffs games and JB stating that he sees him as a regular this year.

 

Rafferty will probably get 40ish games there too, extra D seem to get a bit more.

 

Yeah a lot of our success rides a lot on our goalies. I could see both goalies playing 35+ games under normal circumstances. Removes the pressure of being #1 and gives a sense of competition that's healthy for both Holtby and Demko at this point in their careers.

 

 

Overall we're not in a terrible spot. We have a sense of direction which ever way this year goes and the patience to see how this seasons pans out. 

[shazzam]

We have a young player that looks a bit lost on the ice and it really showed in the playoffs. But 33 pts is pretty good for his 2nd season. We stay the course and keep developing him unless someone comes in and wins/takes his spot. Hopefully, he's able to put on some muscle. Dude is a feather out there

[vannuck59]

Gaudette played well for a second year player . His point totals are moving in the right direction so cut him some slack. I beleave he will be a 40 to 50 point guy this year, put Motte on his wing and Hawryluk / MacEwen . I would say you would see some notable improvement in scoring.  

Edited November 15, 2020 by vannuck59

[IBatch]

On 11/12/2020 at 11:43 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

Pretty sure Linden and Manny were not great on face-offs from the get go. 

Linden was considered one of the best young wingers in the game when Quin decided to move him to center.   We have Joel Otto to thank for that.   Bless  Ronning’s heart - was 6’5” - but at 5’7” we just didn’t have anyone that could handle him and play at a high level.   The two battled each other and that series was a war.   Personally I think the switch and his commitment to both sides of the puck with that role,  was selfless and it was the beginning of the end of his run of 30 plus goal seasons (7 in eight years pro-rating a lock out year)...he only managed one more after the switch.   For sure he’d have over 400 goals ... 

 

By the time he was traded he was regarded as one of the better two-way C’s in the game entering his prime.   Became one of the biggest trade trees in the history of the NHL, and for sure our biggest and most important one.   Sad that it’s finally gone with Markstrom.    The best part was we brought him back where he belongs.    

[IBatch]

22 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Gaudette played well for a second year player . His point totals are moving in the right direction so cut him some slack. I beleave he will be a 40 to 50 point guy this year, put Motte on his wing and Hawryluk / MacEwen . I would say you would see some notable improvement in scoring.  

Motte for sure deserves a promotion.  After watching him this playoffs - his hand eye skills are elite.   You don’t stop that many pucks from getting to their destination without Uber skills.   Takeaway monster.   Plus starts in our zone most of the time and was one of a few guys that could actually get the puck out.   Made the most of his opportunities as well.   Could see him becoming this teams version of Hansen..even an off chance Burrows.   Really like him.   AG and Motte together could be the start of an actual third scoring line.