Best All-Round Defenseman Round 6

[IBatch]

Congratulations Coffey!   My personal favourite growing up.   One of the best skaters ever to play the game - effortless would be a good description.   Only guy I’ve watched glide past guys and accelerate at the same time - three pushes and he was near top speed.   And aside from that he had all the tools to go with it, great shot, excellent deke’s as in moved around guys with ease, and could dominate a game at any given night.    Proved he didn’t need EDM or PIT or anyone later in his career... And for me at least it hurt just as much watching him leave EDM and Canada as it did Gretzky.    13 years in a row after his rookie season he was over a point per game played and most of those years were downright gaudy.   Even with the 3.5% difference in SP today we haven’t seen anything like him since he retired.   He won his last Norris 15 years after he started playing in the NHL...and was in the conversation 14 of those 15 years.   Also the like Gretzky outperformed the majority of the next era of guys in his mid to late 30’s.   Definitely deserving of top five all-time honours.

 

Added a few nominations this time ... don’t forget to nominate guys. 
 

Still voting Potvin...although Robinson and him are for sure splitting hairs as a few have posted.  

 

Nominate Zubov.   Led his team in scoring his sophomore year and played most of his career during the dead puck era... after the lockout scored 71 points in mid thirties ... and Dallas would have never won a cup without him (based on what the players themselves say about him).   Also goes to show the quality of D’s around at the time, that he wouldn’t win a second team all-star spot until the old guard retired... and he was almost done yet still almost won a Norris. 
 

Edit:  On Coffey.  He was no push-over either, often involved in the rough stuff and like Orr could manage the other side of the puck simply on skill alone.   He wasn’t a one trick pony. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

Voting Denis Potvin.  Nominating Doug Wilson.  Oh wait, he's there.  I assumed he didn't get in when I saw Larry Murphy made it.

 

I guess I'll nominate...  Hmmm, Randy Carlyle, Guy Lapointe, Serge Savard, Hedman, Zubov...  Hmmm...  Randy Carlyle.

 

I want to bring up J.C. Tremblay eventually, before too long.  The greatest defenseman in WHA history (two of their Norris Trophies) plus an NHL post-season All-Star twice and five seasons in the top five for the Norris in the NHL.  And five Stanley Cups to go with his AVCO Cup.  He should be seriously considered for the HOF but nobody knows who he is nowadays.

 

Does Fetisov's Russian career count?

 

As to Coffey...a legend.  It was like watching figure skating on top of the hockey abilities.  It's worth noting that no player in Edmonton not named Gretzky - not Kurri, Messier, Anderson etc. - ever matched Coffey's high water mark of 138 points.  Not even Kurri on Wayne's wing for every shift.

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[smithers joe]

anyone who watched robinson play would have him near the top of their list. he was strong, efficient and always played  at giving 110% he was a combination of murphy and konstantinov. 

[c00kies]

Robinson was my easy pick for top 3, so I'm voting him again.

 

Nominate: Tim Horton

[goalie13]

Gotta vote for Potvin.  Not only was he a great defenseman but a half-decent goaltender as well.  

[-AJ-]

Voting for Eddie Shore, nominating Victor Hedman.

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Voting for Eddie Shore, nominating Victor Hedman.

That is a good call...

 

I voted for Potvin, but its Shore/Potvin/Robinson in pretty much a dead heat

 

I bet if I had seen Shore I would have voted for him........but Potvin and Robinson were both pretty friggin good

 

But even though I hate Potvin....he gets my vote

[-AJ-]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

That is a good call...

 

I voted for Potvin, but its Shore/Potvin/Robinson in pretty much a dead heat

 

I bet if I had seen Shore I would have voted for him........but Potvin and Robinson were both pretty friggin good

 

But even though I hate Potvin....he gets my vote

One of the things about these lists is I often end up getting stuck voting for a guy high up on my list and miss arguing for others I liked. Potvin is a good example, as I think he might sometimes be underrated, but I can't vote for him over Shore, so I never get a chance to vote for Potvin and defend him (assuming he wins this round).

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

One of the things about these lists is I often end up getting stuck voting for a guy high up on my list and miss arguing for others I liked. Potvin is a good example, as I think he might sometimes be underrated, but I can't vote for him over Shore, so I never get a chance to vote for Potvin and defend him (assuming he wins this round).

 

Yeah that happened to me a handful of times in the 50 Canucks threads.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Robinson.

[Rick Blight]

Voted Robinson and nominate Shea Weber.

[HomeBrew]

Voted Potvin. Robinson right there with him. Shore... over hyped for an era where barely anyone played the game. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Voting Denis Potvin.  Nominating Doug Wilson.  Oh wait, he's there.  I assumed he didn't get in when I saw Larry Murphy made it.

 

I guess I'll nominate...  Hmmm, Randy Carlyle, Guy Lapointe, Serge Savard, Hedman, Zubov...  Hmmm...  Randy Carlyle.

 

I want to bring up J.C. Tremblay eventually, before too long.  The greatest defenseman in WHA history (two of their Norris Trophies) plus an NHL post-season All-Star twice and five seasons in the top five for the Norris in the NHL.  And five Stanley Cups to go with his AVCO Cup.  He should be seriously considered for the HOF but nobody knows who he is nowadays.

 

Does Fetisov's Russian career count?

 

As to Coffey...a legend.  It was like watching figure skating on top of the hockey abilities.  It's worth noting that no player in Edmonton not named Gretzky - not Kurri, Messier, Anderson etc. - ever matched Coffey's high water mark of 138 points.  Not even Kurri on Wayne's wing for every shift.

 

Fetisov’s entire career counts for sure ... greatest defenseman ever regardless of league... 

 

Coffey was what I imagined Orr was like.   So far above the rest of the best.   

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

One of the things about these lists is I often end up getting stuck voting for a guy high up on my list and miss arguing for others I liked. Potvin is a good example, as I think he might sometimes be underrated, but I can't vote for him over Shore, so I never get a chance to vote for Potvin and defend him (assuming he wins this round).

I stopped voting for Shore because I couldn’t stand seeing Potvin not in the top five.   Talk about weak.   If you took Orr out of the equation I’d be very hard pressed not to pick Potvin first - either him or Robinson.   Then Coffey.    
 

As for Shore.   I’ve been a THN subscriber for decades - and when their 98 list came out and was explained over and over again in later additions ... well Shore ranked 10 all positions all-time, and people back then actually watched him play that made the list.   He must have been something special. 

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, HomeBrew said:

Voted Potvin. Robinson right there with him. Shore... over hyped for an era where barely anyone played the game. 

By that logic, we should punish guys like Harvey, Potvin, and Orr too. There are far more people playing the game in 2020 than back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

 

I think it's far more reasonable to consider how good a player was relative to his competition at the time.

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

By that logic, we should punish guys like Harvey, Potvin, and Orr too. There are far more people playing the game in 2020 than back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

 

I think it's far more reasonable to consider how good a player was relative to his competition at the time.

Absolutely.   And if Potvin owns the guys in the 70’s and plays right near the top against the guys in the 80’s that own the 90’s and so forth ?!!!  It’s ridiculous to think those old guys weren’t stellar athletes and it can be traced all the way back.   My grandfather could crush 99% of anyone’s hands if he wanted too right up until he passed away at 92.    Howe was evaluated by the best pro sports doctor at the time and determined to be in the same shape as championship boxers.   Hull’s slap shot was radared at 120mph....and he’s still considered one of the top ten fastest skaters all-time ... and if you add up his NHL and WHA goals .. let’s just say Ovi won’t catch him.

 

Edit:  Also have to say by this logic Bourque, Chelios, Coffey, MacInnis and perhaps a few others were better then Lidstrom whom most here seem to know about.   Because they played against him in their mid-late careers and did better then he did in his prime.  Ok I will try and shut up about that now ha ha. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, smithers joe said:

anyone who watched robinson play would have him near the top of their list. he was strong, efficient and always played  at giving 110% he was a combination of murphy and konstantinov. 

Robinson absolutely deserves to be in the top five.   Spent a couple hours watching his highlights this summer just for fun... well wow.   Wow!  Definitely would stand up today.   Smooth skater, blistering shot - great hands and one of the best defensive guys ever.   Plus he made mincemeat of all the PHI flyers one by one and discarded the PHI flu out of their locker room for good. Gave them swagger.   One of a few guys not named Captain (of the Habs during their legacy years) that made the honourable mentions for best leaders ever by SN too...his impact to that team was well beyond his on ice actions.   

[HomeBrew]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

By that logic, we should punish guys like Harvey, Potvin, and Orr too. There are far more people playing the game in 2020 than back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

 

I think it's far more reasonable to consider how good a player was relative to his competition at the time.

Disagree. When there is a lot less to be relative towards, it's seems less significant imo. We are talking about a 100 year difference here. In my mind, it's equivalent to being a high school hero.

Edited November 27, 2020 by HomeBrew

[-AJ-]

4 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Disagree. When there is a lot less to be relative towards, it's seems less significant imo. We are talking about a 100 year difference here. In my mind, it's equivalent to being a high school hero.

So would you then rate today's heroes as greater than the ones of the the 60s and 70s like Orr and Potvin? Are Keith, Karlsson, and Hedman greater defensemen than those? If you're going to talk about the 30s in that way, you can't simply ignore the drastic differences between the 60s and 70s and modern hockey. The game has grown insanely since then. Just look at the dramatic difference in salaries for all involved in NHL hockey.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

Robinson 100%. He should be in everyones top-5. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Herberts Vasiljevs