All time defenseman Round 10

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, that is the point about Park

he got these things with Potvin and Robinson competing against him

In fact he dominated them

Yet they are on the list already

and he is not..............kind of mystifying really.

How are they better, when he beat them

 

Again.in the 70's

 

5x 1st All star

2x - 2nd all star

6x Norris runner up

 

How is that not the 2nd best defenseman of the 70's

 

Park was great but he absolutely did not dominate Potvin and Robinson.  They were all in the league together when Robinson won two Norris Trophies, Potvin three and Park zero.

 

Park was a fantastic player and a rightful Hall of Famer with room to spare, but that claim about dominating Potvin and Robinson is demonstrably false.

 

If somebody wants to claim instead that playoffs are where it matters, then when it comes to Stanley Cups it is Robinson six (five while Park was playing), Potvin four and Park zero.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Coconuts]

Voting MacInnis

 

Nominating Zubov, he's truly underlooked considering what he accomplished when he accomplished it. Shame he had to be part of that Rangers team though, without him I doubt they'd have gotten that far. There are certainly better D ahead of him, but he deserves to be in the conversation at least.  

[J.I.A.H.N]

37 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Park was great but he absolutely did not dominate Potvin and Robinson.  They were all in the league together when Robinson won two Norris Trophies, Potvin three and Park zero.

 

Park was a fantastic player and a rightful Hall of Famer with room to spare, but that claim about dominating Potvin and Robinson is demonstrably false.

 

If somebody wants to claim instead that playoffs are where it matters, then when it comes to Stanley Cups it is Robinson six (five while Park was playing), Potvin four and Park zero.

 

Nah, I was saying it for dramatic effect

IMO, I agree with you, but park came in earlier and had basically peaked while Orr was dominant

But it really comes down to the first half of the 70's vs second half of the 70's

Orr/Park 1st half

Potvin/Robinson 2nd half

IMO.....Park was just a smidge below the other 2

not a lot

If the greatest player ever had not been there

he would have won 6 Norris's..............but that was not to be, and he did not

But he should be in the conversation

IMO.....Orr and Park were probably the best pairing ever to lace up skates together (it was BB powerplay point men)

both Left handed....both played both sides.......from time to time

All I am saying is he should given his due

[Kevin Biestra]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Nah, I was saying it for dramatic effect

IMO, I agree with you, but park came in earlier and had basically peaked while Orr was dominant

But it really comes down to the first half of the 70's vs second half of the 70's

Orr/Park 1st half

Potvin/Robinson 2nd half

IMO.....Park was just a smidge below the other 2

not a lot

If the greatest player ever had not been there

he would have won 6 Norris's..............but that was not to be, and he did not

But he should be in the conversation

IMO.....Orr and Park were probably the best pairing ever to lace up skates together (it was BB powerplay point men)

both Left handed....both played both sides.......from time to time

All I am saying is he should given his due

 

No problem giving Park his due.  He was actually an excellent player all the way up to the mid-80s when he retired.  He still had good hockey left him even then except for his knees.

[J.I.A.H.N]

14 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

No problem giving Park his due.  He was actually an excellent player all the way up to the mid-80s when he retired.  He still had good hockey left him even then except for his knees.

the 70's might have been the last time you seen a group of defensemen as good as Heisakan, Maker, Hughes, Fox

They are so young now, it will be interesting to see if they can even come close

 

I would put it...Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Park..............pretty crazy 4 top 10 in 1 decade

[Kevin Biestra]

57 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

the 70's might have been the last time you seen a group of defensemen as good as Heisakan, Maker, Hughes, Fox

They are so young now, it will be interesting to see if they can even come close

 

I would put it...Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Park..............pretty crazy 4 top 10 in 1 decade

 

That's a great four but the early 80s saw these guys all appear more or less at once...  Coffey, Bourque, Murphy, Housley, Chelios, MacInnis, Scott Stevens, Reinhart, Babych, Lowe, Huddy.  That's just the guys with rookie years between 1979-80 and 1983-84 and I'm probably forgetting some.  Seven of those guys I named had 900 points, five had 1,000 and two had 1,500.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[-Vintage Canuck-]

I went with Park.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

MacInnis.

 

Nominating Hedman. Maybe Zubov next.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Herberts Vasiljevs

[shiznak]

I think Stevens is criminally underrated when you talk about best all-around defensemen. I believe he should be in the top 5, quite honestly. He went from scoring 60-70 points to becoming one of the best (if not the best) shutdown defensemen in the league, for nearly a decade in the mid-90s/early 00s.

 

The dude won the Conn Smythe without putting up half a point per game in the playoffs.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

I think Stevens is criminally underrated when you talk about best all-around defensemen. I believe he should be in the top 5, quite honestly. He went from scoring 60-70 points to becoming one of the best (if not the best) shutdown defensemen in the league, for nearly a decade in the mid-90s/early 00s.

 

The dude won the Conn Smythe without putting up half a point per game in the playoffs.

If you were creating a team with all-time guys he’d be hard to leave off the list which says something.   I agree he’s one of the best shutdown guys ever, best hitter ever that’s for sure, although now he’d be suspended forever doing that - and IMO those were all solid, great, amazing hits not his fault their heads were down.  
 

Kasper was also a great hitter - same with Konstantinov (the Peca of defense), but Stevens were unreal.  Only Lindros made guys fly further, and we all know what happened to him.     That said Robinson would go off most boards first,  and both Chara and Langway would need a long look for a third pairing with size and defensive prowess as well.   Nothing wrong with Stevens though, was a great player, but most would like to see a series of first or second all-star selection’s and a Norris or two before making a top five or ten claim.  
 

Park is the best D all-time never to win one ... Stevens maybe should have in the same way Chara did (even his only Norris he wasn’t close to point leaders - but there was no argument he deserved it), very stiff competition meant he was one of several great D’s that never did.   Fetisov is another.  

[CR7]

Voted MacInnis, nominating Rob Langway

[c00kies]

Nominate Salming

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

8 hours ago, shiznak said:

I think Stevens is criminally underrated when you talk about best all-around defensemen. I believe he should be in the top 5, quite honestly. He went from scoring 60-70 points to becoming one of the best (if not the best) shutdown defensemen in the league, for nearly a decade in the mid-90s/early 00s.

 

The dude won the Conn Smythe without putting up half a point per game in the playoffs.

I'm gonna have to go with Steven's next. Played over 1,600 games and had over 900 points for a guy that wasn't even predominantly an offensive Dman. 

 

3 cups and a Conn Smythe too... wow.

[Nave]

Niedermayer is one of my favourite players of all time, but I don't think he's better than Stevens.