Interesting Take on the Loss of Markstrom

[MikeyD]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/hockey-central-at-noon/dec-1-i-heard-they-were-doing-thumb-wrestling-or-something/

On the December 1st edition of Hockey Central, they bring on Steve Valiquette who does analysis for the New York Rangers and has a great history of analyzing modern goaltending and tracking statistics that's a better, more modern take on the "eye test" that many of us who have played and understood the game can finally flesh out with goaltenders. I recommend most of the podcast just for listening, but the part that is very interesting (and his take I agree wholeheartedly with) is around the time of 40:05 where Jeff asks the question, "Is there a goalie that you've analyzed that you feel would have a better name if he weren't playing on a bad team?" and his immediate answer is Jacob Markstrom. 

He goes on to break down the analytics of why Markstrom has been one of the best goaltenders in the past 3 years. Not only does he allow an incredibly low amount of low-danger chances get through him (last year he had ZERO.... Z-E-R-O during the regular season on another analysist's report), but he also stopped an incredibly large amount of high danger chances. Now most of us know Markstrom is a good goaltender, but I'm not sure how many understand just HOW good of a goaltender he was for us. I think Steve Valiquette is right, I don't think the team would be anywhere near as good if it weren't for him and I don't think they'd even stand a chance at getting into the playoffs without his performance. 

Now obviously with cap issues, somebody had to go. I'm still personally not quite sure letting go of Markstrom was the right deal (as opposed to playing both Demko and Markstrom this year, and getting an asset out of trading away Demko at the deadline). There's definitely a risk to giving Markstrom that huge contract as he's aging, but I've always been a guy who has the mindset of "if you have something elite, you can't just let it walk away". Goaltending is the most important position in the game and we're taking a huge gamble for the cost of 6 million dollars. Jim Benning is definitely thinking long-term, but I wonder what the repercussions could possibly be on development if goaltending doesn't get the team to where it needs to be (in the playoffs). 

I'm crossing my fingers Demko pans out. Goaltending is not an easy position to fill and getting consistent elite goaltending is as hard as finding a first line player. I think a large part of our success is riding on a young goalie. Fortunately for us, Demko is used to being "the guy" and his trajectory is showing fairly decently that he'll be a starter. The team has to grow significantly to become a contender anyways, but having an inconsistent goaltender could derail the entire rebuild. 

With that said, Go Canucks Go! Hockey still feels forever away. I can't wait to see how Demmer performs! I really hope he proves my worries to be ridiculous! 

[JM_]

We're a victim of his later career  success. We just can't afford to pay him for the term he wants. 

 

I have my doubts he can repeat this performance, without a combination of extra rest, good goalie coaching and staying injury free. If Calgary rides him the way Green did I can't see him staying healthy going forward but we'll see. 

[apollo]

Listening to their podcast as background noise right now... decent guys but I think they are totally out to lunch here.

 

"He goes on to break down the analytics of why Markstrom has been one of the best goaltenders in the past 3 years. Not only does he allow an incredibly low amount of low-danger chances get through him (last year he had ZERO.... Z-E-R-O during the regular season on another analysist's report)"

 

It's a pretty strong statement to say Marky was one of the best goalies in the past 3 year... and people say I'm a homer T_T

 

"Another analyst"... this is such fake news. Even the biggest homers would be able to admit Marky gave up lots of these during the year, not zero. Especially in the playoffs.

 

Ok after giving it some thought, these guys are %100 closest Flames fans and are just trying to spread fake news to us and make themselves feel good about the terrible contract they gave him.

 

The Demmer Holtby era is upon us. Cup + Jennings. Expect nothing less

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by apollo

[Mackcanuck]

2 years ago Markstrom was letting in soft goals, impossible angle soft goals

that was then this is now

we could not afford to sign Markstrom to a long term expensive contract.

We could not sign Markstrom and then lose Demko in the expansion draft next season.

I personally hope Markstrom is a flop in CGY

[cuporbust]

Honestly,  I'm fine with him walking away. Always been waiting for the old Marky to show up again , and he did for a stretch in the playoffs. We will be fine. 

[ken kaniff]

If we had an average NHL goalie last season we would not have made the playoffs. We would probably be a bottom 10 team if not for him. Very few goalies would be able to pull that off. The last few years he’s been elite as in top 3 at least. He’s masked quite a few problems on the team 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, ken kaniff said:

If we had an average NHL goalie last season we would not have made the playoffs. We would probably be a bottom 10 team if not for him. Very few goalies would be able to pull that off. The last few years he’s been elite as in top 3 at least. He’s masked quite a few problems on the team 

if we had an average NHL defence tho we might have. We struggled a lot in that area too. NS is a big upgrade on what we had which will help to improve the entire group, lessening Edlers minutes e.g. and likely having him be more effective. With that and the addition of Holtby I don't see the team taking a big step back next year, we might even be in a stronger position if Demko is really ready for 30-40% of the games. 

[theo5789]

There was no doubt that we had developed Marky into a pretty darn good goaltender. We are following a similar plan with Demko having Holtby as the vet (Miller with Marky) and have the common denominator in Ian Clark. So the question is can Marky replicate what he has shown here on a new team with a new goaltending coach that might change his game again.

 

My biggest concern was Marky has two knee injuries this past season including one that took him out of the playoffs. How is that going to affect him long term given his age and usage? I think that's why it wasn't worth the term and contract and it made sense to walk away. Perhaps he will be solid for the next 6 years, but we at least can try to develop Demko similarly and DiPietro has looked good so far for further insurance.

[MikeyD]

I'm actually very curious to see how DiPietro ends up. I think he's a more technical goaltender (less raw) than Demko was at his age, but Demko has always had fantastic agility and ability to read plays. One goaltender is definitely far more reactionary than the other. The problem with DiPietro is his size. A little bit too small, but he can display that he's a fantastic goaltender at times. I really wonder how good he'll end up becoming. 

[DSVII]

As much as I rail on Benning, letting Marky walk was the best option. He wasn't going to stay for less money and without NTC protection. It would have depressed the trade value we could have otherwise asked for in Demko. Plus the sample size of his career where he was truly elite is still short and comes at the tail end of his peak in age. It was too much to overpay. Let's see how Markstrom adapts in a new system, new team and without the Goaltending coach. I have faith in Demko/DiPietro

 

Benning is thinking of the future now, I kinda wish he did that last season before he blew $10 mil on Myers and Ferland or the year before when we had more space to work with, But this sets us up to take advantage of the next two years if the Covid effect keeps the salary cap down. Also, Green really needs to tighten up the defense now, we can't have a system that allows 30+ shots on net on a regular basis. If we can capitalize the year after once we lock in Petey and Hughes, we can take another step forward before Bo and Miller are due for their next contract. 

[BCNate]

Markstrom was great for us and will be tough to replace.  With that said, signing a 6 year x 6 mill deal with a full NMC that is buyout proof when we have Demko ready to go would have been the wrong move.  I'd be willing to bet in 2 years time when we are truly ready to compete for the cup, Demko will be the better of the two goalies.  

 

I'm a huge Markstrom fan, wish him well, but this was the right move to make.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Yeah, well................Markstrom does not play for us anymore

 

Let's turn the page on this one

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

17 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Markstrom was great for us and will be tough to replace.  With that said, signing a 6 year x 6 mill deal with a full NMC that is buyout proof when we have Demko ready to go would have been the wrong move.  I'd be willing to bet in 2 years time when we are truly ready to compete for the cup, Demko will be the better of the two goalies.  

 

I'm a huge Markstrom fan, wish him well, but this was the right move to make.

This 100%

[khay]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

Now obviously with cap issues, somebody had to go. I'm still personally not quite sure letting go of Markstrom was the right deal (as opposed to playing both Demko and Markstrom this year, and getting an asset out of trading away Demko at the deadline). There's definitely a risk to giving Markstrom that huge contract as he's aging, but I've always been a guy who has the mindset of "if you have something elite, you can't just let it walk away". Goaltending is the most important position in the game and we're taking a huge gamble for the cost of 6 million dollars. Jim Benning is definitely thinking long-term, but I wonder what the repercussions could possibly be on development if goaltending doesn't get the team to where it needs to be (in the playoffs). 

 

Good post. I agree, making the playoffs without Marky won't be easy. It's sad to see him go, we all watched him grow from a player that allows a softie to start every game to not allowing any softie for the whole season as you showed in your post.

 

But 6 years is far too long, especially with uncertain cap situation. We needed to save money for the future. And, we needed to upgrade our defence badly.

 

The strategy to not letting elite walk away make sense but remember Naslund? After the injury, he was not the same. If we let him walk, we could have had Niedermayer. And this is coming from a huge Naslund supporter. I personally thought he saved the franchise from relocation.

 

Sometimes, these tough decisions have to be made and I think letting Marky walk was the right move. Taking a step back so that we can take two steps forward.

 

 

[CaptKirk888]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

I'm actually very curious to see how DiPietro ends up. I think he's a more technical goaltender (less raw) than Demko was at his age, but Demko has always had fantastic agility and ability to read plays. One goaltender is definitely far more reactionary than the other. The problem with DiPietro is his size. A little bit too small, but he can display that he's a fantastic goaltender at times. I really wonder how good he'll end up becoming. 

Yes, such a shrimp at 6' 200lbs.

[Coconuts]

Marky was on fire the last two seasons, but it also took him a while to get there. Including a memorable stint in Utica not long after we acquired him. 

 

I'd say Demko's probably further along than Marky was at the same age, his development has been consistent and he's taken big steps forward at each level he's reached. I fully expect him to continue progressing. Coming up in Florida's system of all places didn't help Marky much. His game basically had to be rebuilt once he was acquired by Vancouver. 

 

Having Holtby as a buffer for Demko is huge, I was hoping he'd be the guy we landed to work in tandem and was thrilled when he signed. Yes, Marky masked some problems this team had last season, but all of our young guys should be a year better and the addition of Schmidt alleviates some of the burden from Edler and Myers. A healthy Roussel should help too, he's a more effective player than he showed (in part due to injuries) last season. Hell, if Juolevi can step in and play stable bottom pairing minutes that's an improvement as well. He's got a higher floor than Troy ever had. 

 

Needless to say, I'll miss Marky but I think we'll be just fine without him. 

[BCNate]

1 minute ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Yes, such a shrimp at 6' 200lbs.

Not small, but DiPietro would be the smallest starting goalie in the league at 6'.  Average is 6'3

This is a pretty cool page:

https://gooddeedseats.com/all-starting-nhl-goalie-heights/

[CaptKirk888]

https://www.nhl.com/news/thatcher-demko-eager-to-compete-or-canucks-starting-goalie-job/c-319735672

 

Demko eager to vie with Holtby for Canucks' starting goalie job: report

Says 'I want to be the guy' following strong performance in playoffs

by NHL.com @NHLdotcom

 November 30, 2020

Thatcher Demko said he's excited about the chance to be the No. 1 goalie for the Vancouver Canucks this season and beyond.

Demko, who backed up Jacob Markstrom last season, will compete for playing time with Braden Holtby, who signed a two-year contract with Vancouver on Oct. 9. Markstrom signed a six-year contract with the Calgary Flames the same day.

"I think there's a lot on the table and I'm just really excited to get the opportunity to take that next step," Demko told Sportsnet on Sunday. "I want to be in Vancouver as long as I can. I want to be the guy. This is the next step in that direction."

A second-round pick (No. 36) by the Canucks at the 2014 NHL Draft, Demko has been training in Vancouver most of the fall, rather than his native San Diego, because he wanted to complete any quarantine he had to serve crossing into Canada well ahead of training camp. The NHL is targeting the start of the season for Jan. 1, 2021.

Demko said he's hoping to build on his play during the Stanley Cup Playoffs, when he replaced an injured Markstrom for the final three games of the Western Conference Second Round against the Vegas Golden Knights with the Canucks down 3-1 in the best-of-7 series. Demko had a 48-save shutout in Game 6, the most ever in a postseason game by a rookie, but the Canucks lost 3-0 in Game 7. He allowed two goals on 125 shots (.984 save percentage) in the three games.

"I think it showed not only me, but it showed his teammates and coaches, our fans and the media, that he is the guy we thought he could turn out to be," Canucks general manager Jim Benning said. "We believed that's what he was capable of, but to actually see it for three games and for everybody else to see it, I think it was fantastic."

It also should give Demko, who turns 25 on Dec. 8, a confidence boost for this season.

"I've been able to reflect a ton on it," he said. "You can look back and watch the film, which I was able to do. But I think the biggest thing I take away from that was just the mental step that I took. That's the thing that's probably the biggest adjustment going through your career, having that mentality, creating that confidence and sustaining that confidence. For me, it was kind of like the stars aligned.

"I'd had some opportunities that maybe didn't go great, and I was able to learn from those. ... Obviously I wanted to win Game 7. But now that some time has passed, I'm able to look back and really enjoy how fun that was for me. Just having that confidence and kind of proving to myself that I can do it, three games in four nights, yeah, it was definitely a big step."

 

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Yes, such a shrimp at 6' 200lbs.

The way he's described, you'd think he's another Arturs Irbe.

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I'm actually very curious to see how DiPietro ends up. I think he's a more technical goaltender (less raw) than Demko was at his age, but Demko has always had fantastic agility and ability to read plays. One goaltender is definitely far more reactionary than the other. The problem with DiPietro is his size. A little bit too small, but he can display that he's a fantastic goaltender at times. I really wonder how good he'll end up becoming. 

I am not really here to disagree with you?

 

NVM, yes I am. 

 

Look? The essence of both Demko & Dipietro's game is freakish athleticism.  Demko with size. Mike with even more absurd agility.  

 

And when I watch Mikey he play.  He has been the more free form. Swing out waaaay out of his crease to challenge a shooter. Use said athleticism to get back for the highlight save when the puck was reversed across ice. He is closer to Jonathan Quick in his prime? You cannot move the puck faster than Mikey can keep up! Than a fundamental / technical never out of position goalie. 

 

If anything Demko is the more technical goalie.