Interesting Take on the Loss of Markstrom

[GhostsOf1994]

Marky signed in calgary for money.

Holtby signed in Vancouver as 1a/b mentor for Demko.

 

Big difference. 

 

Any takers on a gentleman's wager that Holtby has better numbers over his 2 years then Markstrom?

 

Lost Tanev and Stecher, gained Schmidt Joulevi, Rathbone, Rafferty, Tryamkin in the mix come March.

 

Lost Leivo and Toffoli, gained Hawryluk and Hoglander, looks like a healthy Ferland  and maybe Podkolzin come March.

 

Personally didn't like Leivo game, he's not talented enough not to hustle on the back check. Toffoli stings as I really hoped for success with Pearson and Horvat. 

 

 

Who knows as far as roster goes, still think there will be a major trade/signing/waiver party. 

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser 

Pearson Horvat JV 

Hoglander Gaudette Ferland

Motte Beagle Sutter

Rooster Macewan Hawrlyuk

Podkolzin

 

Edler Schmidt

Hughes Myers

OJ Benn

Rafferty Tryamkin

 

On 12/4/2020 at 2:55 PM, IBatch said:

 If anyone is blame about the CHI teams dying it should be Toews and Kane’s, at the time and still massive cap hits.   Crawford’s regular season sp is right around where Luongo’s is .918.   For sure he’s had some up and down years, but when it mattered the most he was there as his two cups suggest.   Better then most over the last decade, including in his teams declining years.  Reminds me a little of Osgood, never given enough credit for what he did and just considered a product of his team. 

Umm Chris Osgood was borderline a career 3rd goalie on any other nhl team.

 

His 3 cups,

backup first win,

2nd the team infront of him had 10 hall of famers with legends in the post season such as draper, maltby, McCarty, Kruppe not in the hof. Hasek won all 16 for the cup, again osgood a backup.

 

His 3rd cup was taking over for Hasek who was in his early 40s.

 

If anything osgood is over rated and definitely a product of detroits hall of famers.

 

 

[MikeyD]

2 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Marky signed in calgary for money.

Holtby signed in Vancouver as 1a/b mentor for Demko.

 

Big difference. 

 

Any takers on a gentleman's wager that Holtby has better numbers over his 2 years then Markstrom?

 

Lost Tanev and Stecher, gained Schmidt Joulevi, Rathbone, Rafferty, Tryamkin in the mix come March.

 

Lost Leivo and Toffoli, gained Hawryluk and Hoglander, looks like a healthy Ferland  and maybe Podkolzin come March.

 

Personally didn't like Leivo game, he's not talented enough not to hustle on the back check. Toffoli stings as I really hoped for success with Pearson and Horvat. 

 

 

Who knows as far as roster goes, still think there will be a major trade/signing/waiver party. 

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser 

Pearson Horvat JV 

Hoglander Gaudette Ferland

Motte Beagle Sutter

Rooster Macewan Hawrlyuk

Podkolzin

 

Edler Schmidt

Hughes Myers

OJ Benn

Rafferty Tryamkin

 

Umm Chris Osgood was borderline a career 3rd goalie on any other nhl team.

 

His 3 cups,

backup first win,

2nd the team infront of him had 10 hall of famers with legends in the post season such as draper, maltby, McCarty, Kruppe not in the hof. Hasek won all 16 for the cup, again osgood a backup.

 

His 3rd cup was taking over for Hasek who was in his early 40s.

 

If anything osgood is over rated and definitely a product of detroits hall of famers.

 

 

I'll take you up on that friendly bet. What do you wanna wager? 

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:30 AM, apollo said:

Listening to their podcast as background noise right now... decent guys but I think they are totally out to lunch here.

 

"He goes on to break down the analytics of why Markstrom has been one of the best goaltenders in the past 3 years. Not only does he allow an incredibly low amount of low-danger chances get through him (last year he had ZERO.... Z-E-R-O during the regular season on another analysist's report)"

 

It's a pretty strong statement to say Marky was one of the best goalies in the past 3 year... and people say I'm a homer T_T

 

"Another analyst"... this is such fake news. Even the biggest homers would be able to admit Marky gave up lots of these during the year, not zero. Especially in the playoffs.

 

Ok after giving it some thought, these guys are %100 closest Flames fans and are just trying to spread fake news to us and make themselves feel good about the terrible contract they gave him.

 

The Demmer Holtby era is upon us. Cup + Jennings. Expect nothing less

 

 

I'm not someone who buys into the absurd amount of analytical stats, I find most of them to be ass, (my attempt at humorous word play) more so with goalies. To say a goalie stopped 100% of easy shots is flawed considering what constitutes a shot being easy is pretty subjective. 

Marky gets a ton of praise and he for sure deserves it but he also has issues that always made me feel that he isn't the goalie to keep going forward.

In my 30+ years of watching the Nucks, I have never seen a goalie give up the first goal so quickly or so often, dido for quick goals in succession.

I won't sit here and say our team was a defensive beast last season but being down a goal or two early kind of forces a team to take chances.

He also seemed prone to giving up leads or having mental breakdowns that would result in a 4-2 game going into the third ending up in OT or worse.

But for me the biggest negative of his is I just don't see a goalie who can consistently win the big games in the NHL. Yes small sample size but in the bubble he was terrible in game 4 against the Wild, game five against the Blues he couldn't make the saves needed late in the game and was not good at all against Vegas minus game 2.

It could be argued that even some of our victories in the bubble were concerning like almost allowing the Wild to come back in I think it was game 2 or 3.  

I can't be the only one here that would think when we were up say 3-1 with a minute to left that would tell himself that we were at least gonna get a point because my gut-feeling was the other team would tie it up.

He'll that game against the Bruins when it was 5-1 and they scored 2 quick goals I honestly thought we were going to lose.

We are really lucky that we seem to have an offence that is able to battle back when down 1 or more goals.

I wish Marky the best but I won't miss the stick-breaking and constantly chirping at the refs, I prefer a goalie who can stay calm and not get rattled, I think everyone can agree that at the very least, Demko has those qualities.

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:38 PM, Fred65 said:

Mikey D I'm with you on that assessment. Not many goalies of that class are given up on for nothing. I think we'll find he'll be missed more than the loss of Tanev for instance. Fans keep going on about RHD but pass over on Markstrom. Demko, we hope is good but if fans are honest when Markstron went down at the end of the regular season Demko did not excel. He had an unbelievable run for  3 game in the play-offs. The question is which Demko do we get. It best be play-off Demko or we're in trouble. IMO it goes down to poor Cap Management. We new his contract was coming up and we new as Valliquette  pointed out Vcr had an exceptional goalie. I tend to believe we'll see more Holtby that we expected, lets hope he finds his game again with the aide of Clarke. One thing for sure Calgary is going to be  a lot better, you can count on that

I think that stretch was an outlier IMO. Demko was really good early in the season as well during the middle minus a few stinkers. I could be wrong but before Marky was hurt Demko hadn't played much and was injured as well and that may have played a part. I think starting goalies are far different then a guy who can sit for a month and just step in.

The starting of the season Demko hadn't been out of action like he was when Marky was hurt, plus Demko was aware he would be getting regular minutes due to Marky saying goodbye to his father then again after. The Demko we saw in the playoffs shouldn't have been that surprising considering he thrives under pressure and the fact he had been working a ton with Ian the previous 3 months. 

I always felt Demko had issues seeing the puck from the point and being in the proper position. Against Vegas everything was hitting him in the crest and for me anyway, fixing that issue was huge because the rest of his game is so good already. He's also a great puck handler, where Marky was a bit of an adventure out there.

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 12/2/2020 at 3:07 PM, nergish said:

Getting a little tired of this narrative. 

Thatcher was a Rookie last year - a top 15 Rookie in the league, in my estimation.

Holding him accountable for not "excelling" when Markstrom went down is really odd to me. He had a good overall season as a backup, and a great season for a Rookie goaltender.

If he went on a magical run at that stage in the season, we would still be uncertain of what the future holds for him. It's all unknown for an unproven commodity.

 

But with him it's about past history at other levels, the eye-test, and the way his teammates talk about him. He was proven very little at the NHL level, but he's proven enough to this stage to know you just can't give him away for free. 

Markstrom took until age 28-29 to find his game.

Thatcher hasn't missed a step at any point thus far in his development, and that playoff performance did not happen by accident.

 

I'm gonna miss Marky too, but we simply couldn't match that contract without crippling the team long term. 

I get annoyed by that as well. Yes Demko was bad during that stretch minus the final game but like most starters, he needs to be in a rhythm. With baseball-style games this season, he's gonna be getting tons of work and I think him and a Holtby under Ians tutelage will be one of the better duos this season.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Demko's time has come.  He's tracking better then Markstrom at the age of 25, I know Demko's has gotten into some injuries... but so has Markstrom.  He's gotten into at least one injury per year, every year he's here, most minor injuries, but still.... injuries is injuries.  I am sad to see him go, but this business, we also got another veteran back up. 

[GhostsOf1994]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:41 AM, MikeyD said:

I'll take you up on that friendly bet. What do you wanna wager? 

Check messages

[iceman64]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:11 AM, MikeyD said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/hockey-central-at-noon/dec-1-i-heard-they-were-doing-thumb-wrestling-or-something/

On the December 1st edition of Hockey Central, they bring on Steve Valiquette who does analysis for the New York Rangers and has a great history of analyzing modern goaltending and tracking statistics that's a better, more modern take on the "eye test" that many of us who have played and understood the game can finally flesh out with goaltenders. I recommend most of the podcast just for listening, but the part that is very interesting (and his take I agree wholeheartedly with) is around the time of 40:05 where Jeff asks the question, "Is there a goalie that you've analyzed that you feel would have a better name if he weren't playing on a bad team?" and his immediate answer is Jacob Markstrom. 

He goes on to break down the analytics of why Markstrom has been one of the best goaltenders in the past 3 years. Not only does he allow an incredibly low amount of low-danger chances get through him (last year he had ZERO.... Z-E-R-O during the regular season on another analysist's report), but he also stopped an incredibly large amount of high danger chances. Now most of us know Markstrom is a good goaltender, but I'm not sure how many understand just HOW good of a goaltender he was for us. I think Steve Valiquette is right, I don't think the team would be anywhere near as good if it weren't for him and I don't think they'd even stand a chance at getting into the playoffs without his performance. 

Now obviously with cap issues, somebody had to go. I'm still personally not quite sure letting go of Markstrom was the right deal (as opposed to playing both Demko and Markstrom this year, and getting an asset out of trading away Demko at the deadline). There's definitely a risk to giving Markstrom that huge contract as he's aging, but I've always been a guy who has the mindset of "if you have something elite, you can't just let it walk away". Goaltending is the most important position in the game and we're taking a huge gamble for the cost of 6 million dollars. Jim Benning is definitely thinking long-term, but I wonder what the repercussions could possibly be on development if goaltending doesn't get the team to where it needs to be (in the playoffs). 

I'm crossing my fingers Demko pans out. Goaltending is not an easy position to fill and getting consistent elite goaltending is as hard as finding a first line player. I think a large part of our success is riding on a young goalie. Fortunately for us, Demko is used to being "the guy" and his trajectory is showing fairly decently that he'll be a starter. The team has to grow significantly to become a contender anyways, but having an inconsistent goaltender could derail the entire rebuild. 

With that said, Go Canucks Go! Hockey still feels forever away. I can't wait to see how Demmer performs! I really hope he proves my worries to be ridiculous! 

We already have a team better than last year minus Toffoli as the season had pretty much been all but over.

 Schmitty is an upgrade from an injury plagued aging Tanman (as much as I loved the guy) as he put in many years of b.s. and heartache in a Canuck uniform and never hoist a cup so don't think it's a slam on him because of that but it remains an upgrade especially in the physical side where Tanman is just worn out. 

 Holtby vs Markstrom, Holtby already has a Vezina to his record so same thing, an upgrade there too.

Stecher Vs Rafferty.. another upgrade, especially in the physical side, Raff is a big boy with a lot of play driving skill and plays a very good positional game and rarely makes a mistake and if he does, I like the way he uses his speed to get it back. I think this is an easy upgrade even in progression as this season wears on and Raff gains experience. Stech is a good 3rd pairing guy to at his best, not a bad stand in for second pairing in a pinch due to injury but a bit better than average dman all said and done.

 

 Seems to me, an upgrade in JV, in JV this coming season opposed to last season, what makes me say that, reports confirmed that Jake has been skating with other NHL'ers including Myers in Kelowna so looks what JB said to Jake publically he finally heard with his brain this time instead of just his ears and I'm pretty sure he knows his days of development and patience by JB and TG are done and probably wouldn't get another offer past his 2 years of he doesn't find a cpl of higher gears to his game especially with Podz (the "all in" pitbull) who imo could easily take Jake's spot if Jake doesn't find those said gears sooner than later because Podz comes with that build in.

 

This team imo, is clearly better than last year.. and will be upgrading every year but this is just one of a few more steps to a wide open window to get after Stanley.. 

 considering what the media was saying about us 2 seasons ago foretold to be counted as nowhere near the playoff's for the foreseeable future.. well look at us now, and who we beat and why.. plus our D sucked but it's been upgraded from not that good to very good and will get progressively better.

As a fan from day one of the franchise, with the 3 exceptions of, 2 cups runs and Pavel Bure stepping on to the ice, I've never been this happy about where this team is heading and with *gasp* some depth for a change.. 

Enjoy the ride!