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Braden Holtby’s new mask

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-Vintage Canuck-

By -Vintage Canuck-
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elvis15 Canucks Hall-of-Famer

elvis15

Posted
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On 12/16/2020 at 3:13 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

its not about ownership, its about a bit of respect for the culture you're taking the imagery from. I like that the Canucks did consult with some First Nations folks about the orca, thats a good way to show a compliment. Just using it on its own isn't necessarily a compliment, imo. 

There's even more than just showing respect to the culture they're taking the imagery from. There's the aspect of taking away commercial opportunities and exposure for indigenous artists that are trying to keep the art alive as more than a hobby.

 

This isn't a direct correlation, but does delve into that a bit more:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-chloe-angus-non-indigenous-fashion-designer-1.5742507

Quote

Sisters Aunalee Boyd-Good and Sophia Seward-Good, of Ay Lelum–The Good House of Design, said they're careful to make sure their work honours ancient laws protecting the arts and culture of their family, traditions that need to be protected for future generations.

 

They feel that buying licensed Indigenous art from non-Indigenous designers is not the same as supporting authentic Indigenous works

 

"As a Coast Salish design house, we have been turned down by gift shop buyers in our own territory because their floor space was allocated to licensed products, and this needs to change," the Goods said in a written statement. 

 

"We urge the consumer to identify and support authentic Indigenous makers and businesses first, especially when operating in their unceded territories."

...

Vancouver-based Métis designer Evan Ducharme said he would never presume to use elements from another community's artistic traditions. Even when he incorporates Métis themes into his work, he takes special care to make sure they're appropriate.

 

"If something is going to be going up on my website, I need to have these conversations with my grandmother, with my mother, with my father, with my siblings, with my cousins, with my community," he said.

 

"These are the people that I am responsible to, and these are the people who I aim to uplift with my work."

So there's an element of indigenous artists needing the space and exposure, but also the element of making sure things are done properly and with the respect you mention. The article also talks about watering down indigenous art for white people in particular to consume. The combo for Holtby's mask of the advertising in a commercial sense and making changes brings up the question at least of it was a good idea to do.

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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

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5 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

There's even more than just showing respect to the culture they're taking the imagery from. There's the aspect of taking away commercial opportunities and exposure for indigenous artists that are trying to keep the art alive as more than a hobby.

 

This isn't a direct correlation, but does delve into that a bit more:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-chloe-angus-non-indigenous-fashion-designer-1.5742507

So there's an element of indigenous artists needing the space and exposure, but also the element of making sure things are done properly and with the respect you mention. The article also talks about watering down indigenous art for white people in particular to consume. The combo for Holtby's mask of the advertising in a commercial sense and making changes brings up the question at least of it was a good idea to do.

great point. I think a lot of people are defending freedom in art in general, forgetting this is a commercial venture. 

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Guest

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On 12/13/2020 at 8:26 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

there's nothing wrong with re-thinking the concept to include a local artist. Honestly I can't see why people would be upset about that. 

It’s not a bad thing, but it’s the principle.  
 

If I got a Norse themed tattoo or painting done, why would I have to apologize that I didn’t get a Scandinavian to work on it?  
 

It’s great that a local artist gets to work on it, but this is just another step towards catering to the people that don’t do anything productive other then whine on Twitter.  
 

I’m embarrassed by my own city. 

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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

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1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

It’s not a bad thing, but it’s the principle.  
 

If I got a Norse themed tattoo or painting done, why would I have to apologize that I didn’t get a Scandinavian to work on it?  
 

It’s great that a local artist gets to work on it, but this is just another step towards catering to the people that don’t do anything productive other then whine on Twitter.  
 

I’m embarrassed by my own city. 

I think this is where this whole thing goes off the rails. If you put this into a win/loss thing with SJWs you just end up hurting First Nations artists. 

 

Who cares about some jerk on twitter? it's a good thing if First Nations artists get more commercial opportunities isn't it? If it look some stupid podcast to get people to realize it lets just move on and hire more artists when it makes sense. 

 

If you did get a Norse styled tattoo by a non-scandinavian artist you'd probably just be apologizing to people who have to look at it, like those brutal pseudo-celtic arm bands people were getting in the 1990s.  

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tigerswaggerman Junior Prospect

tigerswaggerman

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Concerns are spreading amongst the Vancouver Canucks fanbase and the rest of the league regarding Braden Holtby. Recent revelations have indicated that Holtby no longer has any discernable backbone left. 

If the theorists are correct, a dissolving backbone might help explain his declining numbers these past two seasons.

 

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The Lock Canucks Franchise Player

The Lock

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1 hour ago, tigerswaggerman said:

Concerns are spreading amongst the Vancouver Canucks fanbase and the rest of the league regarding Braden Holtby. Recent revelations have indicated that Holtby no longer has any discernable backbone left. 

If the theorists are correct, a dissolving backbone might help explain his declining numbers these past two seasons.

 

Something tells me you're the kind of person who's never had experience in this.

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alt kilgore Canucks Franchise Player

alt kilgore

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As an artist myself, I think its overblown.  Understanding art history is rife with appropriation.  That is how art works in a lot of ways. You build off of what others have done before you. And make it your own. Musically, Led Zeppelin did it with early American blues singers.

 

I think its kind of ridiculous, that a Scandinavian artist was inspired by art half ways around the world,. And that he wasn't criticized for the beauty/ugliness of his art, but for his thought crime of thinking it was okay.....to make art inspired by other cultures.

 

But even though there are other first nation folks that gave their okay, I do sympathize with even a minority if they say they are offended.  Its not worth arguing about. And I also see the value in promoting, and paying, actual first nations artists to design a mask with that theme. As well, it would hold a lot more meaning and power I think if designed by an established native artist.  And I'm not sure why Holtby did not first try and find a native artist who could draw a design up for him. 

 

I think it could be improved on. I liked the feathers on the side, but not too keen on the front, the way the Thunderbird image is placed, and the colours. 

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Primal Optimist Canucks Franchise Player

Primal Optimist

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On 12/21/2020 at 12:16 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

 

It’s great that a local artist gets to work on it, but this is just another step towards catering to the people that don’t do anything productive other then whine on Twitter.  
 

I know you didn't mean to come off sounding like a racist, but your sentence structure and the topic at hand makes you sound totally like a racist. 

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Primal Optimist Canucks Franchise Player

Primal Optimist

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On 12/25/2020 at 9:20 AM, Gawdzukes said:

This stuff is just getting beyond stupid already. Let's just make all art illegal and call it a day.

you are counter-offended? lol.

 

I hate the mask that was done in west coast first nations stylings but done badly and horribly by an artist from northern Europe. 

 

I think if they want a mask that features west coast traditional art, go to the experts. 

 

Not sure what your thoughts are, but they seem to be very anti-local experts. Jus sayin.

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