Braden Holtby’s new mask

[Chickenspear]

1 hour ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Imagine being such a pathetic loser you're triggered by something as insignificant as this. I sure as hell can't. 

Holtby should rock the mask. If people have a problem with that, they can support a different team. If management has a problem with that stance, he should demand a trade. This team isn't as good as it was last season anyway; not sure what the hell he's expecting to accomplish here realistically. 

Name checks out 

[TNucks1]

5 hours ago, Violator said:

My grandmother is from Austria while the rest of the English are eating turkey and stuffing I'm eating bratwurst and schnitzel

can i have some

[Nave]

Gotta respect how Holtby handled it--taking it as a teachable moment, and vowing to commission an Native artist to do another mask. However, it's embarrassing how misplaced people's frustrations were on this. He had good intentions from the beginning--to honour the rich traditions and culture of First Nations people on the west coast. Cancel culture has gotten out of hand. I understand that it's more acceptable for two similar groups of people in close proximity to one another to appropriate cultural memes, than it is for someone with a colonial background to appropriate something from an indigenous culture. However, many people with settler ancestors feel very badly about colonialism, and merely want to celebrate the culture of people they have come in contact with. Conversely, so many of these people complaining on social media are white people with white guilt, who don't seem to get how contradictory it is for them to speak for minorities. As someone who is white with a diverse background, including a bit of Mohawk, I feel very strongly about finding intersections between cultures, no matter how disparate they seem to be. I look forward to the collaboration between Holtby and an indigenous artist.

[buddhahoodlum]

6 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I haven't but I will check it out. I make a pretty killer black bean burger. 

I love homemade bean burgers. Especially with avocado and red pepper aioli.

[JeremyCuddles]

Just here to voice my opinion, not that anyone cares. As a First Nations person I love when teams/players use First Nations art, when done respectfully. It never really occurs to me who drew it. Just that they were inspired enough by our people to create that beautiful art. The outrage is completely unfair to Holtby and the artist. Yes, it would have been really awesome if Holtby reached out to a First Nations artist initially. But at the same time it should be okay to see someone use our art style to create their art. There was a time where it was okay to share our culture with outsiders. Now instead we sent a negative precedent on making First Nations designed masks. Instead of politely suggesting that Holtby reaches out to a First Nations artist people ran to Twitter to cry cultural appropriation. I see it as more of a tribute than anything. It's a real shame and feels very Vancouver Canucks. Hasn't played a game and the fanbase is already on his ass over some dumb s***. You'll never see this Holtby, but I am sorry for how this was handled.

Edited December 15, 2020 by N7Nucks

[24K PureCool]

What 2020 and social media has taught me is that just because you are guaranteed a voice by the constitution does not mean you should get a megaphone for it.

[falcon45ca]

6 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Just here to voice my opinion, not that anyone cares. As a First Nations person I love when teams/players use First Nations art, when done respectfully. It never really occurs to me who drew it. Just that they were inspired enough by our people to create that beautiful art. The outrage is completely unfair to Holtby and the artist. Yes, it would have been really awesome if Holtby reached out to a First Nations artist initially. But at the same time it should be okay to see someone use our art style to create their art. There was a time where it was okay to share our culture with outsiders. Now instead we sent a negative precedent on making First Nations design mask. Instead of politely suggesting that Holtby reaches out to a First Nations artist people ran to Twitter to cry cultural appropriation. I see it as more of a tribute than anything. It's a real shame and feels very Vancouver Canucks. Hasn't played a game and the fanbase is already on his ass over some dumb s***. You'll never see this Holtby, but I am sorry for how this was handled.

Totally agree

[IBatch]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:31 PM, elvis15 said:

Meh. Definitely a missed opportunity to collaborate with one of the great local artists (like Andy Everson) on not only the design, but to make sure it is done the correct way. And I've seen far better art; it doesn't matter how many chrome/erase/4D effects you put on it.

https://www.facebook.com/Andy.Everson.NWC.Artist/posts/224087745748985

 

Add to that, he says Canada's "north west coast". Canada is already north, and it's just the West Coast. Holtby isn't playing in Seattle's Pacific Northwest just yet.

Somewhere, in a galaxy far far away a long time ago - stormtroopers everywhere are pissed off about this. 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Just here to voice my opinion, not that anyone cares. As a First Nations person I love when teams/players use First Nations art, when done respectfully. It never really occurs to me who drew it. Just that they were inspired enough by our people to create that beautiful art. The outrage is completely unfair to Holtby and the artist. Yes, it would have been really awesome if Holtby reached out to a First Nations artist initially. But at the same time it should be okay to see someone use our art style to create their art. There was a time where it was okay to share our culture with outsiders. Now instead we sent a negative precedent on making First Nations design mask. Instead of politely suggesting that Holtby reaches out to a First Nations artist people ran to Twitter to cry cultural appropriation. I see it as more of a tribute than anything. It's a real shame and feels very Vancouver Canucks. Hasn't played a game and the fanbase is already on his ass over some dumb s***. You'll never see this Holtby, but I am sorry for how this was handled.

Thanks N7...my uncle studied, learned and did amazing First Nations art for decades, gave us a piece when we got married, masterfully done - carved and painted.   It’s be hanging with pride for close to a quarter century now in our house.    It didn’t seem like an issue then, and often he was the only RCMP officer in some of the BC little towns he kept safe when he worked - loved by all races and peoples under his care.   Never once did it occur to me that  his retirement pass-time was wrong - I know more about it now and still don’t think it was.   He was diligent in learning the trade and what he made was truly amazing.    Sometimes things can go too far, and I agree this is probably one of them.    Holtby shouldn’t be shamed, but I guess he probably is.  I’m glad he’s not going to give up on his desire for another tribute to the first Pacific Northwest people’s and make a new one through better channels.   Art is a freedom of expression,  and also a great  form of admiration when others try and copy it.   What west coast kid hasn’t drawn totem poles growing up in school?   Even out East here it was a school project for my kids the past five years - and they were proud of what they made.  

[WeneedLumme]

Social justice warriors who get their rocks off playing white knight for people who didn't request their help and who don't want it, are disgusting. Sometimes pendulums swing too far.

[Rush17]

6 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

Social justice warriors who get their rocks off playing white knight for people who didn't request their help and who don't want it, are disgusting. Sometimes pendulums swing too far.

Some may be new age trolls who get a free pass to be disruptive. 

[flat land fish]

I’m finding it increasingly difficult to know where the line is as to what is appropriate.  In corporate culture everything is around inclusion to the points it’s jammed down your throat. Then you see a situation like Holtby’s mask and I really struggle to find an issue with it.  Clearly an homage to the local culture and what came before him. Inclusion needs to roll both ways.  This can’t be we want everything you have but you must not play in our sand box.  So fed up.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, flat land fish said:

I’m finding it increasingly difficult to know where the line is as to what is appropriate.  In corporate culture everything is around inclusion to the points it’s jammed down your throat. Then you see a situation like Holtby’s mask and I really struggle to find an issue with it.  Clearly an homage to the local culture and what came before him. Inclusion needs to roll both ways.  This can’t be we want everything you have but you must not play in our sand box.  So fed up.

I think part of this is we can't seem to have a civilized discussion anymore. I think @N7Nucks said it really well, it would have been good if Holtby and/or the mask artist had worked with a BC first nations artist to begin with, but he's doing that now. Thats not an extreme thing to me, and I like that Holtby is showing some real leadership in his whole approach to this thing, so that part to me is very good.

 

The other stuff, the podcasters and their twitter army, vs. the people opposed to Holtby making the change and their angry army, is where the problem lies, imo. Why are we giving the extreme ends so much attention? 

[Chicken.]

28 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think part of this is we can't seem to have a civilized discussion anymore. I think @N7Nucks said it really well, it would have been good if Holtby and/or the mask artist had worked with a BC first nations artist to begin with, but he's doing that now. Thats not an extreme thing to me, and I like that Holtby is showing some real leadership in his whole approach to this thing, so that part to me is very good.

 

The other stuff, the podcasters and their twitter army, vs. the people opposed to Holtby making the change and their angry army, is where the problem lies, imo. Why are we giving the extreme ends so much attention? 

The extreme ends demand attention... case in point harrassing / forcing Holtby's wife off twitter (if true) so the reasonable people have to attempt to respond so that sanity can prevail

 

For example CTV is saying he was being criticized... criticized by whom ?  most people will just see the headline and assume he was in the wrong, but he shouldn't have had to apologize for anything really. social media is a cess pool and the mainstream media seems to play off of it.

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

The extreme ends demand attention... case in point harrassing / forcing Holtby's wife off twitter (if true) so the reasonable people have to attempt to respond so that sanity can prevail

 

For example CTV is saying he was being criticized... criticized by whom ?  most people will just see the headline and assume he was in the wrong, but he shouldn't have had to apologize for anything really. social media is a cess pool and the mainstream media seems to play off of it.

 

 

I guess I see a couple of things here. 

 

1) Holtby's apology and feelings on it are probably genuine. I suspect that they do wish in hindsight that he had thought to bring in a local artist. I don't think the podcast gals are his motivation, I think based on the Holtby's social media posts (e.g., lots of LGBTQ+ support) that his feelings are his own.

 

2) We don't know why Brandi shut her twitter down, I suspect it was tweets from both extremes who seem to be upset. 

 

But yeah, social media is crap. 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[Squamfan]

I didn't see issues with these

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Squamfan]

I didn't see issues with these

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[justathought]

"cultural appropriation" So every person needs specific permission (from whom?)to make wine? wear pants? Make spaghetti? sell a pastrami sandwich? no, No, NO...it's just getting to be too stupid, especially in a mixing pot Society...(I like the mask).

[JM_]

interesting adjacent sports news. today. Don't want to derail this thread, but clearly thinking among sports teams is changing in how images are used. 

 

 

[justathought]

This, I agree with.