Braden Holtby’s new mask

[flat land fish]

I don’t have an issue with the Indians changing their name.  I do however don’t think teams such as the Braves or Blackhawks should need to change their name which are probably more akin to says the Vikings for example. 

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, flat land fish said:

I don’t have an issue with the Indians changing their name.  I do however don’t think teams such as the Braves or Blackhawks should need to change their name which are probably more akin to says the Vikings for example. 

Agreed. There has to be a point where we draw a line; otherwise, we're just going to go backwards in society at the slightest offending of a single person.

[The Lock]

As far as the Holtby's mask goes, I guess my question is this: what if someone is inspired by native art that they want to make native art? Is that person not allowed to do such a thing? Should this person never get well known in the right ways? Flip this around: should a native person not be allowed to make the next Mona Lisa since it's not their culture? What are the "rules" here if any?

 

In the end, doesn't this all just seem a tad bit silly for this to be "offensive"? Don't get me wrong, I understand where people creating a fuss are coming from, but there's more than 1 side to this story in the end and we should be considering everyone's feelings, not just the natives. The natives should be respected, but so should everyone else in the end.

Edited December 14, 2020 by The Lock

[Putgolzin]

11 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Just here to voice my opinion, not that anyone cares. As a First Nations person I love when teams/players use First Nations art, when done respectfully. It never really occurs to me who drew it. Just that they were inspired enough by our people to create that beautiful art. The outrage is completely unfair to Holtby and the artist. Yes, it would have been really awesome if Holtby reached out to a First Nations artist initially. But at the same time it should be okay to see someone use our art style to create their art. There was a time where it was okay to share our culture with outsiders. Now instead we sent a negative precedent on making First Nations design mask. Instead of politely suggesting that Holtby reaches out to a First Nations artist people ran to Twitter to cry cultural appropriation. I see it as more of a tribute than anything. It's a real shame and feels very Vancouver Canucks. Hasn't played a game and the fanbase is already on his ass over some dumb s***. You'll never see this Holtby, but I am sorry for how this was handled.

Agree 100%

I wonder if the 97% of awesome Canuck fans could somehow band together and do/say/create something positive to welcome Brandi Holtby to Vancouver.

 

It seems sometimes these poor wives get crapped on for no fault of their own. Nobody did anything wrong and Holtby even responded in a positive manner to this whole ordeal. 
Maybe it would be cool if there was some sort of appreciation and good vibes the fanbase could send their way at the outset if this relationship.

[The Lock]

11 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Just here to voice my opinion, not that anyone cares. As a First Nations person I love when teams/players use First Nations art, when done respectfully. It never really occurs to me who drew it. Just that they were inspired enough by our people to create that beautiful art. The outrage is completely unfair to Holtby and the artist. Yes, it would have been really awesome if Holtby reached out to a First Nations artist initially. But at the same time it should be okay to see someone use our art style to create their art. There was a time where it was okay to share our culture with outsiders. Now instead we sent a negative precedent on making First Nations design mask. Instead of politely suggesting that Holtby reaches out to a First Nations artist people ran to Twitter to cry cultural appropriation. I see it as more of a tribute than anything. It's a real shame and feels very Vancouver Canucks. Hasn't played a game and the fanbase is already on his ass over some dumb s***. You'll never see this Holtby, but I am sorry for how this was handled.

See, this to me is EXACTLY the type of mentality we should all have when it comes to art.

 

You see people around the world drawing anime. Does it offend the Japanese?

You see people heavily interested in Greek and Roman mythology and writing stories based on that. Does it offend the Greeks or the Romans?

You see people learning the salsa up here. Does it offend Latinos?

You see people around the world celebrating St. Patrick's Day. Does it offend the Irish?

 

So why shouldn't outsiders be allowed to embrace and create native art? It makes no sense whatsoever to me. If anything, it should be embraced, just like all the other examples I provided are by the respective groups. Culture isn't an exclusive elitist club. Culture is an expression that is meant to inspire. No one in 100 years time is going to turn around and think a culture was stolen or something just because someone not of the culture made something similar or of that culture.

[Ajax-]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:59 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess you've asked permission from Texas? 

Merritt, BC

[48MPHSlapShot]

I feel bad for Braden Holtby.  He has to apologize for trying to be part of the team. I'll leave it at that because I have to. Grr.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, justathought said:

"cultural appropriation" So every person needs specific permission (from whom?)to make wine? wear pants? Make spaghetti? sell a pastrami sandwich? no, No, NO...it's just getting to be too stupid, especially in a mixing pot Society...(I like the mask).

At some point appropriation becomes the norm.   It’s the guilt everyone is supposed to carry when a more dominant state arises.   Vikings had a good run at taking over Europe at one point - if things took a different path we’d all be worshipping Odin, and if the Mongols ever took their eyes and horde further west,  we might all be worshipping the ancestral home to a lot of First Nations folk instead.   That said English days all mimic the Vikings.   Thors Day and all.    What’s even sillier is the mixing pot you mentioned ... for any who haven’t tried ancestry.com the results could be enlightening.    Genetics don’t lie.   We we’re surprised to find out only three generations back, either my great grandmother or my wife’s great grandmother had a baby with a Chinese person 99.8% accurate.   Good for laughs.  Also the mixing pot never becomes more real with the breakdown.   Bet virtually nobody has less then 8 different country ties on their list.   From all over the world.    Bet most in Canada and the US have a lot more.  
 

That said by definition what Holtby did, no matter how innocent, fits the definition.  It’s the hypocrisy going on in 2020 that gets to me more then anything.   People get real.   Get a life.  Stop being so sensitive and work on your own sh!t, don’t take others on too much and don’t make crap out of nothing. 

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

People get real.   Get a life.  Stop being so sensitive and work on your own sh!t, don’t take others on too much and don’t make crap out of nothing. 

 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

 

It’s the hypocrisy that goes on in 2020 that gets me more then anything....thanks for bold facing one part of my text.   The ironing is hilarious. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by IBatch

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It’s the hypocrisy that goes on in 2020 that gets me more then anything....

It's just too bad that being "offended", and, being "offensive" is an industry now. Makes for more controversy, which makes for more clicks and more ratings etc. 

 

It's just the way the world is right now - but what it really is, is the blue dot effect: The blue dot effect suggests that, essentially, the more we look for threats, the more we will see them, regardless of how safe or comfortable our environment actually is. And we see this playing out in the world today.

 

When we don't see blue dots, we will look for them until we spot them.... Maybe, more so than ever nowadays, we have it so damn good that people need to find SOMETHING to grasp on to. I guess we all have this mental capacity to have to worry about something, I don't know... Whatever the case though, media has this psychological phenomenon on a string and uses it to their advantage. It's purely psychological, and it effects how we coexist and function as a society, whether it's socially or through business/politics etc.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Herberts Vasiljevs

[Gurn]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It’s the hypocrisy that goes on in 2020 that gets me more then anything....thanks for bold facing one part of my text.   The ironing is hilarious. 

That pic is probably the funniest thing I'll see today, 

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

Merritt, BC

Actually cowboys need to thank Spain for the look, thats where it all started anyway. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

It's just too bad that being "offended", and, being "offensive" is an industry now. Makes for more controversy, which makes for more clicks and more ratings etc. 

 

It's just the way the world is right now - but what it really is, is the blue dot effect: The blue dot effect suggests that, essentially, the more we look for threats, the more we will see them, regardless of how safe or comfortable our environment actually is. And we see this playing out in the world today.

 

When we don't see blue dots, we will look for them until we spot them.... Maybe, more so than ever nowadays, we have it so damn good that people need to find SOMETHING to grasp on to. I guess we all have this mental capacity to have to worry about something, I don't know... Whatever the case though, media has this psychological phenomenon on a string and uses it to their advantage. It's purely psychological, and it effects how we coexist and function as a society, whether it's socially or through business/politics etc.

Wow.  Deep thoughts.   Used to see those on Saturday Night Live and found them hilarious.   Assuming anything makes an ass of U and me.   Don’t spend much time on the internet other then this site, NHL.com.   Those “blue dots” your seeing is too much screen time.   Just another psych word for some sort of disorder I’m sure.   Don’t lump me into that stuff.  Call me a homer if you want I deserve that handle.   I’m not trying to be cute or look smart.   I’d really much rather be talking about hockey then defending against some a-holes that are disrespecting our new teammate.     The internet and social media is probably the worst thing I’ve seen happen to future generations - what do you care to say about that?   Red dots?  

Edited December 14, 2020 by IBatch

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Deep thoughts.

 

"If you ever drop your keys in molten lava, forget about them; because man, their gone"

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Actually cowboys need to thank Spain for the look, thats where it all started anyway. 

And it’s been perpetuated through the spaghetti westerns passed down generations.    Those darn Italians.   Making us eat delicious food.   Damn the Mexicans too.  Their food is amazing.  And what about those real Indians?  Them and their awesome curry dishes?  Or Thai food for that matter.   Don’t forget the Germans for their sausages and cheese.   A-holes.   Mandarin is probably the most sensible language in the world.   Their words actually sound like what they describe.   Want some mushrooms?  More-goo.   Or water? Schway... like what water sounds like moving around in a creek.     And yes their food is high fat - high salt and absolutely delicious too.    Thank god for culture.   Any god.  We are ONE race.  And One people.   Hard not to Do No Harm against some people - but it is for sure the “way” and it’s the common denominator in most religions.   I wish we were all First Nations.   I truly do.   A sustainable society.   We can learn a lot from different cultures and the idea of cultural appropriation isn’t about that.  It’s about losing culture.   That’s also ironic. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

 

"If you ever drop your keys in molten lava, forget about them; because man, their gone"

Yeah I’m out.   Enjoy the discourse Edit : Heberts. Zero offense taken.  Other then another thread I was hoping would be about a something Canucks related.   Like a cool mask.   

Edited December 14, 2020 by IBatch

[Davathor]

22 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I'm REALLY disappointed to learn that Braden's wife ditched her Twitter account over all this...truly sad.

 

What a welcome to the team, to have to face adversity and hostility (if that's what happened...I haven't been online much).

 

It's one thing to have an opinion on something....it's another to go on the attack.  The goal should always be persuasion, not argument, and to present an opinion with respect and kindness is important.  If people are just waiting to pounce they likely are poor spokesmen/women for their cause.   I know sometimes emotion gets in the way of that and I, myself, am guilty of it at times.  But seeing how people are affected is eye opening as things can snowball quickly.

 

I feel embarrassed as a fan to know that this seemingly very nice family feels bad as they're settling in....enough so to shut down their account.  Truly sad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair I'm willing to bet it was less hockey fans and more entitled anonymous Vancouverites virtue signalling online.

 

One big reason I never got on Twitter, the minority is so loud and vocal behind a keyboard, it can be confused for the majority. 

[Squamfan]

How there offended by the orca logo and want to change that. Man these guys are ridiculous worst think to happen to Canucks Twitter is the broadcast

[The Lock]

2 hours ago, Davathor said:

To be fair I'm willing to bet it was less hockey fans and more entitled anonymous Vancouverites virtue signalling online.

 

One big reason I never got on Twitter, the minority is so loud and vocal behind a keyboard, it can be confused for the majority. 

Yeah I have a twitter account, but I don't even have a single post because it seems like, even if you say something you didn't mean a certain way that someone just happens to take the wrong way, it can cause an uproar. And it's infinitely worse for anyone in the limelight.