[Speculation] Canucks clearing Cap for Hamonic

[Junkyard Dog]

4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I find this an interesting issue........Juolevi (22) vs Rathbone (21)

 

So, if I have this right.......Juolevi's strengths are his size, first pass and his over all offense

If I have Rathbone right.....it is his elite skating and overall play (2 way player)

 

IMO, I would be putting money down on Rathbone, but because of waivers, it may put Juolevi first, if they are close

 

Juolevi's big Achilles heals are skating and defensive play, if he has cured his defensive play, then he makes it

Rathbones problem is size, and if he has learned to play against big men, then maybe not so much

According to people who kept tabs on Utica, OJ's biggest strength has been his play away from the puck when he's settled in, especially on the PK.

 

According to Utica Announcer Joe Roberts who called every Utica game on OJ's biggest strength.

 

Quote

I am so surprised on a nightly basis how good he is at positioning his body and his stick in the right places when the team is settled into the defensive zone. He is such a valuable asset on the penalty kill, he logged a lot of time and swallowed a lot of pucks. I think that people need to take a look at these moments when they realize what his potential is as an NHL defenseman because he can really help slam the door.

More takes

 

Quote

The Utica Comets were pretty horrible at controlling the shot share this season. With control of only 47.35% of attempted shots. They were even outshot at a higher rate than the Vancouver Canucks were with their control of 48.43% of attempted shots.

Through the tough shot differential, the Comets were able to maintain control of 47.7% of attempted shots with Olli Juolevi on the ice. It’s not much higher than the team’s total but Juolevi was used in a lot of defensive zone faceoffs as the Rafferty pairing would be thrown out for a lot of offensive zone starts. For the season, Juolevi’s Corsi percentage was just 0.1% lower than Brogan Rafferty, who had a tremendous season down on the farm. Juolevi’s most consistent defence partner was Ashton Sautner, whose CF% was 45.7 this year.

At the beginning of the season, the Comets as a team were running extremely hot. Juolevi was a big part of that, and as a result, his control of the Corsi share was brilliant. He would then go on to miss eight games due to hip-soreness. Though his skating improved as the season went on, the team’s ability to possess the puck and get shot attempts off did fall.

 

 

A lot of these same people also say that he improved a lot as the season went on, still has to grow but showed a lot of promise to become more of a reliable defenseman. Utica announcer Joe Roberts again.

 

Quote

I saw an improvement in every part of his game as the season went on, without a doubt, and I think that that’s the main goal of somebody who’s playing in Utica. To get better, because obviously the end goal is to not play in Utica. They want to get to the National Hockey League and if you’re not getting better every single day as the season progresses in noticeable fashion then how are you going to get up there? I think a big part of it was him finally getting healthy

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

16 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

According to people who kept tabs on Utica, OJ's biggest strength has been his play away from the puck when he's settled in, especially on the PK.

 

According to Utica Announcer Joe Roberts who called every Utica game on OJ's biggest strength.

 

More takes

 

 

 

A lot of these same people also say that he improved a lot as the season went on, still has to grow but showed a lot of promise to become more of a reliable defenseman. Utica announcer Joe Roberts again.

 

 

Good job JYD

I am convinced he is as good as Rafferty

Hmmmm? Is thatgood or Bad? (Seriously!)

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I find this an interesting issue........Juolevi (22) vs Rathbone (21)

 

So, if I have this right.......Juolevi's strengths are his size, first pass and his over all offense

If I have Rathbone right.....it is his elite skating and overall play (2 way player)

 

IMO, I would be putting money down on Rathbone, but because of waivers, it may put Juolevi first, if they are close

 

Juolevi's big Achilles heals are skating and defensive play, if he has cured his defensive play, then he makes it

Rathbones problem is size, and if he has learned to play against big men, then maybe not so much

Think you may have that backwards Jan.

 

OJ's defensive play is likely to be more mature/polished (while still needing development to get to solid 'NHL level').

 

He has great vision and passing, which allow him to move the puck forward consistently and leads to a lot of first, second and (dreaded) 'third' assists but his offense doesn't 'jump off the page'. He's not a 'dynamic' skater but has a smooth stride and good speed. Think calming, solid and smart... Something like Hamhuis or Lindholm.

 

Rathbone on the other hand while being a solid battler, will likely need a fair bit more polish on his defensive play before he's even ready for limited third line use IMO (but happy to be proved wrong). His compete, skating (dynamic!) and offense (passing and shot) though are quite good with a potentially high ceiling.

Edited December 18, 2020 by aGENT

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Think you may have that backwards Jan.

 

OJ's defensive play is likely to be more mature/polished (while still needing development to get to solid 'NHL level').

 

He has great vision and passing, which allow him to move the puck forward consistently and leads to a lot of first, second and (dreaded) 'third' assists but his offense doesn't 'jump off the page'. He's not a 'dynamic' skater but has a smooth stride and good speed. Think calming, solid and smart... Something like Hamhuis or Lindholm.

 

Rathbone on the other hand while being a solid battler, will likely need a fair bit more polish on his defensive play before he's even ready for limited third line use IMO (but happy to be proved wrong). His compete, skating (dynamic!) and offense (passing and shot) though are quite good with a potentially high ceiling.

if his eventual play is as good as Hamhuis colour me giddy. That would be great. 

 

I do think he'll pick up a decent number of assists this year with that pass, but I don't expect miracles. If he picks up 20 pts in a weird 56 game season I'd be pretty happy with that. 

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

if his eventual play is as good as Hamhuis colour me giddy. That would be great. 

 

I do think he'll pick up a decent number of assists this year with that pass, but I don't expect miracles. If he picks up 20 pts in a weird 56 game season I'd be pretty happy with that. 

Probably a bit less bite than Hammer. I'd be pretty happy with 10-15 points given the shortened season, likely limited 3rd pair and minimal/nonexistent PP time.

[luckylager]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Probably a bit less bite than Hammer. I'd be pretty happy with 10-15 points given the shortened season, likely limited 3rd pair and minimal/nonexistent PP time.

Love this clip.

 

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Love this clip.

 

He had a few of those

 

Shame it did more damage to him than Lucic though 

[luckylager]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

He had a few of those

 

Shame it did more damage to him than Lucic though 

He perfected the hip check for sure. I suspect that's probably what messed his back up. He hasn't thrown one of those is ages.

Nobody really lays the hip anymore.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Think you may have that backwards Jan.

 

OJ's defensive play is likely to be more mature/polished (while still needing development to get to solid 'NHL level').

 

He has great vision and passing, which allow him to move the puck forward consistently and leads to a lot of first, second and (dreaded) 'third' assists but his offense doesn't 'jump off the page'. He's not a 'dynamic' skater but has a smooth stride and good speed. Think calming, solid and smart... Something like Hamhuis or Lindholm.

 

Rathbone on the other hand while being a solid battler, will likely need a fair bit more polish on his defensive play before he's even ready for limited third line use IMO (but happy to be proved wrong). His compete, skating (dynamic!) and offense (passing and shot) though are quite good with a potentially high ceiling.

Hmmmm?

 

Not quite the info I had....but sorta

 

My understanding is that he is a better defensive player than Fox, but quite as offensive

 

I do not think Juolevi is a poor skater, just not dynamic as you suggest.......he did well on PK, but that is more positioning than skating

 

I vote for both to do well................PLZZZZZZZ

 

But I think I am more in the Rathbone corner for who will be the better player long term

 

But I could be wrong! 

[aGENT]

49 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hmmmm?

 

Not quite the info I had....but sorta

 

My understanding is that he is a better defensive player than Fox, but quite as offensive

 

I do not think Juolevi is a poor skater, just not dynamic as you suggest.......he did well on PK, but that is more positioning than skating

 

I vote for both to do well................PLZZZZZZZ

 

But I think I am more in the Rathbone corner for who will be the better player long term

 

But I could be wrong! 

Rathbone is better defensively (and more of a battler) than Fox with a (likely) lesser offensive ceiling. That doesn't make him 'good' defensively though. Nor does it make him as good defensively as OJ.

 

As for who's likely better....that depends on how you define that. Rathbone will likely be more exciting and flashy while putting up gaudier offensive numbers. But to stick with previous Canucks players for comparison...who was 'better', Hamhuis or Ehrhoff?

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Good job JYD

I am convinced he is as good as Rafferty

Hmmmm? Is thatgood or Bad? (Seriously!)

He does have downsides. The same guy who made that article pointed out a few. Like his ability to defend the rush, his timing, things that his below par skating seem to be effecting immensely. He did improve upon his skating as the year went on but he wasn't great at the start which is all likely due to him slowly getting back to 100%.

 

The Negatives

 

 https://canucksarmy.com/2020/06/16/the-olli-juolevi-files-part-1-the-negatives/

 

The Postives.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2020/06/17/the-olli-juolevi-files-part-2-the-positives/

 

 

^^^They did a pretty good job here pointing out his strengths and weaknesses throughout the year in this 2 part report card.

 

 

Overall Rafferty had a better season but OJ made significant improvements as the season went on. One of the most improved prospects last year which again mainly stems from becoming more and more healthy.

 

People should be excited for OJ because he may end up becoming the eventual successor for Edler/Tanev. A safe/smart defenseman we could rely on eating a ton of those tough defensive minutes while having a bit of skill to his game.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Junkyard Dog

[Kenny Blankenship]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Think you may have that backwards Jan.

 

OJ's defensive play is likely to be more mature/polished (while still needing development to get to solid 'NHL level').

 

He has great vision and passing, which allow him to move the puck forward consistently and leads to a lot of first, second and (dreaded) 'third' assists but his offense doesn't 'jump off the page'. He's not a 'dynamic' skater but has a smooth stride and good speed. Think calming, solid and smart... Something like Hamhuis or Lindholm.

 

Rathbone on the other hand while being a solid battler, will likely need a fair bit more polish on his defensive play before he's even ready for limited third line use IMO (but happy to be proved wrong). His compete, skating (dynamic!) and offense (passing and shot) though are quite good with a potentially high ceiling.

I’ve always thought Hamhuis was a good comparable. Hammer was a better defender (though I believe OJ can get there), but they both seem to make the right play majority of the time. Never get any spotlight either

[canucklehead44]

The issue with Olli is his turning and acceleration from standing - from what I’ve seen/read once he gets going he skates well.

 

On the PK he is effective because of positioning and not having to turn to attack defenders - he does a great job at blocking lanes and getting in front of pucks to block shots.

 

his stretch ice passing is also very strong - he could definitely use that as a weapon on the pk for faster north south guys like Horvat, Virtanen, or Motte to get opportunities coming out of the box.

 

Since the NHL is far more structured I think Juolevi is going to be comparatively much better. In the AHL for example Rafferty is the much better player and while I think he can play at the NHL level id bet on Juolevi being more of a foundational top 4 guy due to the style of his game. With that said Rafferty could still be a good offensive dman who isn’t a liability defensively.
 

 

[stawns]

16 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hmmmm?

 

Not quite the info I had....but sorta

 

My understanding is that he is a better defensive player than Fox, but quite as offensive

 

I do not think Juolevi is a poor skater, just not dynamic as you suggest.......he did well on PK, but that is more positioning than skating

 

I vote for both to do well................PLZZZZZZZ

 

But I think I am more in the Rathbone corner for who will be the better player long term

 

But I could be wrong! 

Imo Rathbone is a "maybe" full time NHL player someday.  OJ will be a top 3 damn and core piece in Van.

[J.I.A.H.N]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

Imo Rathbone is a "maybe" full time NHL player someday.  OJ will be a top 3 damn and core piece in Van.

You are probably right....but you did not have to swear..........

[reyezone]

It’s so nice to have legitimate depth in the defence prospect pool. 
 

My take- 

Raffy may well pan out but is the longest shot. 
 

OJ the safest bet as his hockey IQ is high end. 
 

Bones has all the tools but likely needs a bit of polish in the Pros with Utica to put it all together. 
 

Here is hoping that Van becomes the Defence factory of the West! 

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, reyezone said:

It’s so nice to have legitimate depth in the defence prospect pool. 
 

My take- 

Raffy may well pan out but is the longest shot. 
 

OJ the safest bet as his hockey IQ is high end. 
 

Bones has all the tools but likely needs a bit of polish in the Pros with Utica to put it all together. 
 

Here is hoping that Van becomes the Defence factory of the West! 

I actually think Woo is a much safer bet than Rathbone.

[HKSR]

14 minutes ago, reyezone said:

It’s so nice to have legitimate depth in the defence prospect pool. 
 

My take- 

Raffy may well pan out but is the longest shot. 
 

OJ the safest bet as his hockey IQ is high end. 
 

Bones has all the tools but likely needs a bit of polish in the Pros with Utica to put it all together. 
 

Here is hoping that Van becomes the Defence factory of the West! 

Considering we are basically a goalie factory, if we were a defense factory too, we will surely win a cup lol

[Provost]

1 hour ago, reyezone said:

It’s so nice to have legitimate depth in the defence prospect pool. 
 

My take- 

Raffy may well pan out but is the longest shot. 
 

OJ the safest bet as his hockey IQ is high end. 
 

Bones has all the tools but likely needs a bit of polish in the Pros with Utica to put it all together. 
 

Here is hoping that Van becomes the Defence factory of the West! 

We have depth, but it is realistically mostly guys who are likely to be 3rd pairing in the NHL.  You never know who works out eventually (Bieksa was never thought to be a top 4 guy as a prospect)... but those are outliers and it is more often that highly touted prospects don't live up to their potential than late picks become important players.

Juolevi, Rafferty, Tryamkin, and Woo are still pretty big question marks as to whether they will be regular NHLers beyond fringe guys who get a cup of coffee. 

Everyone is all excited at Juolevi after one good "bubble" camp and 6 very sheltered minutes of play.  That is great news from a guy that was close to falling off the radar as a prospect, but he still didn't beat out bottom end guys like Fantenberg or Benn for a job and those guys aren't more than fringe NHLers.  I still have hopes for Juolevi to be an every day player, but he has to show a lot to be considered top 4 material.

Rafferty is great in the minors, no idea if that translates to the NHL.  He is at an age where it is really unlikely he will be more than an injury fill in or complementary player.  Maybe he gets to be Stecher level of being a really good 3rd pairing guy who can play higher up if needed on a really bad defence.  More likely I think he makes really good trade bait with such high minor league numbers.  Some team losing a D in expansion may give us a decent return for him.  He would probably be a really good fit in Tampa, especially if they can't afford to keep Cernak, it would be pretty easy to play and excel with the LD partners he would be used with.  They would like him because he is cheap and NHL ready.

Woo... he is a wildcard.  He could still never be an NHLer at all, or he could compare pretty favourably as a carbon copy of Bieksa except with the wheels to play today's game... I don't think anyone would complain about adding that element to our blue line again.  His upside is being a complementary partner to Hughes which is exciting, but again he hasn't played pro hockey at any level yet.  I think we will get a real answer after this AHL season as to whether he really is going to be a top 4 NHLer (if there is one).  I think he should be partnered with Rathbone as the Utica top pairing and play a crap ton of minutes because all the other "veteran" AHL D are going to be on our taxi squad.  

Rathbone is probably our best bet to be a top 4 player.  There is every reason to believe he can copy the success of his former partner Adam Fox.  He showed it wasn't Fox carrying that pairing by getting better even after Fox left for the NHL.  He can easily slot in on our 2nd pairing within a couple of years and be running the 2nd unit PP.

Tryamkin is a player I have been crazy for since he played for us and I want to see him signed to a 2 year deal next offseason.  There is every reason to worry that the game has gotten too fast for him and that he won't be able to play the uptempo style that Green like to employ and the rest of our D core is built for.  Maybe there is a place for him on the 3rd pair or as the depth steady stay at home PKer... but maybe he will just get walked every night by faster forwards.  The KHL is a slow league, so even his break out season this year doesn't tell us much.

I know folks are going to whine about me being negative by not assuming all our prospects are going to become top 4 NHLers... but it is just reality.  All prospects don't do that.  If one of them hits and the other guys are replacement level fill ins playing regularly... we have done pretty well from that crop.  We are still going to be well served by using our expansion protected slots to trade for a D upgrade from a team that is going to lose a guy for nothing.  There will be guys available for pennies onthe dollar who would be an upgrade on any of our D except Hughes and Schmidt.




 

[warrchief]

20 hours ago, luckylager said:

Love this clip.

 

As much as I loved that hipcheck when I saw it, it really ruined our chances at a cup.