[Discussion] Canucks Orca.

[BoKnows]

 

 

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/12/15/vancouver-canucks-orca-indigenous/

Edited December 15, 2020 by BoKnows

[DrJockitch]

If Holtby’s mask is a problem then this is a problem. 
where is the line between honouring the local heritage and cultural appropriation?  
Do I have to be Spanish or French to paint in a cubist style?

If I make tacos for dinner have I done something wrong?

I don’t know where the line is anymore. 

[JM_]

@BoKnows maybe a good sub-question is, should First Nations artists and designers be included in logos that use First Nations inspired art?

 

Lots of trigged reactions on both ends of this, but maybe this question turns the temp down a bit? 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

If Holtby’s mask is a problem then this is a problem. 
where is the line between honouring the local heritage and cultural appropriation?  
Do I have to be Spanish or French to paint in a cubist style?

If I make tacos for dinner have I done something wrong?

I don’t know where the line is anymore. 

How do you define "honouring"? because thats different than just using something. 

[BoKnows]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

@BoKnows maybe a good sub-question is, should First Nations artists and designers be included in logos that use First Nations inspired art?

 

Lots of trigged reactions on both ends of this, but maybe this question turns the temp down a bit? 

Didn't even think of that.  Changed the topic name

[-SN-]

2 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

If Holtby’s mask is a problem then this is a problem. 
where is the line between honouring the local heritage and cultural appropriation?  
Do I have to be Spanish or French to paint in a cubist style?

If I make tacos for dinner have I done something wrong?

I don’t know where the line is anymore. 

 

It's pretty easy. Cultural appropriation is when a dominant culture appropriates from a disadvantaged minority culture. It can be seen as exploitation of the minority culture and traditions. If the Canucks logo was made (and used) without any consultation with local indigenous community, that's likely appropriation. The scale and effects of that are up for discussion. 

 

On that note, everyone needs to remember this is a discussion. The logo hasn't been immediately 'cancelled' because of a few twitter posts. 

 

Personally, I'd love to see the Canucks reach out and request the orca be redesigned by a local indiginous artist (Salish?). 

[BoKnows]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

How do you define "honouring"? because thats different than just using something. 

I'd consider most sports teams as honouring (minus the RedSkins).

 

I like to think it's honouring because we're using these images and symbolism in a positive way.  It becomes a symbol of pride for the local population.

[-SN-]

Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Or we could just pre-empt the discussion by moving back to the skate and its colours full-time.  

I 100% support this. 

[IBatch]

Oh sh!t.  Don’t let tiger hearted see this thread or else we are in for in.  Ha ha.   Personally I like the old skate ones the best.   Doesn’t mean I don’t like the new ones too.  I hated that part of our history but the angst had a lot more to do with Messier and a corporation from Seattle branding us.    Wouldn’t be much different if Little Ceaser’s changed the Detroit wheel into a full sized pizza...suppose that the two look alike anyways might have kept them from going there ha ha.   Bad joke.   They made it right when they got rid of those god awful first ones slowly through the WCE era and finally when we got back to more of our roots with the blue and green.   As far as appropriation goes?  Absolutely it fits within that definition.

 

  Given what happened with Holtby this gives the traditionalists/skate lovers  a nuclear bomb on changing our uniforms IF they want to pick up the cause and go back to something from before - like our best uniform ever.  Bad taste though.   Doubt it will go there,  expect it won’t even get close.   And would except some support from First Nation members and fans to keep the Orca.   That said the hypocrisy is kind of gross - isn’t it? 

[Stelar]

Seattle was probably wise to name themselves the Kraken instead of the Totems. Saved the headache....

[-SN-]

1 minute ago, Stelar said:

Seattle was probably wise to name themselves the Kraken instead of the Totems. Saved the headache....

Not an issue if they were to consult, support, and work with the indigenous community. 

[BoKnows]

Maybe I'm day dreaming but don't the Canucks work with the local indigenous population, or honour them from time to time?

[Squamfan]

https://amp.tmz.com/2020/12/15/vancouver-canucks-pressured-to-change-orca-logo-over-appropriation-concerns/?__twitter_impression=true

 

 

More white people being offended 

[JM_]

17 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

I'd consider most sports teams as honouring (minus the RedSkins).

 

I like to think it's honouring because we're using these images and symbolism in a positive way.  It becomes a symbol of pride for the local population.

when you consider the word 'honouring' tho, it implies some level of respect. I'd think respect would include discussion if at all possible.

 

Maybe using an image for a sports team isn't positive for the ones being used if its just been taken and used with no attempt at consultation. You really can't know until you've had a discussion with them about it, imo anyway. 

 

Imagine if Bettman chose the Canadian uniforms for the Olympics e.g. as part of the negotiation between the NHL and Olympic Committee (which isn't far fetched if they want to ad advertising, e.g.). Would we all be "honoured" at what Bettman came up with? 

[Rink on Renfrew]

If I remember correctly there was a contest to design the new logo and the one that was chosen was created by a First Nations artist. That’s just from my memory though it could be off. Either way, most of the indigenous people I’ve every had conversations with welcome the logo as a representation of our area and their culture. It’s never been a stolen thing and the Canucks have seemed to have done a real good job in including people of all races and Cree into the Canucks family. Remember Gino is one of our most brought out former players and he’s worn headdresses and whatever he’s chosen because he feels comfortable with this franchise and this fan base. 

[Pears]

Painting the Orca in the same picture as the Redskins and Indians is about as insanely absurd of a comparison you can make  Literally what’s offensive about it?

[morgo]

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Pears said:

Painting the Orca in the same picture as the Redskins and Indians is about as insanely absurd of a comparison you can make  Literally what’s offensive about it?

you're jumping to "offended" when maybe its just more about should you include a Haida artist if you're going to use Haida art as your logo? you don't legally have to, but should you? 

[Squamfan]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

you're jumping to "offended" when maybe its just more about should you include a Haida artist if you're going to use Haida art as your logo? you don't legally have to, but should you? 

Where you offended last year? i mean its a hideous logo and should be changed because its bad not because  its canceled

[Squamfan]

11 minutes ago, Pears said:

Painting the Orca in the same picture as the Redskins and Indians is about as insanely absurd of a comparison you can make  Literally what’s offensive about it?

and its a typical white dude who started this, fueled by the broadcast