[Discussion] Canucks Orca.

[Stelar]

5 hours ago, Bitter Melon said:

Time to retire the "Canucks" name too. Its only a matter of time until somebody complains. Might as well get out of ahead of everything in one fell swoop.

How about "British Columbia They's".  Although the British may complain. 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

This is so confusing, I so want the orca gone but this is just wrong, uggggghhhh.

Sorry Dumb Nuck.   For now at least, the Orca is safe ... like a cat with nine lives, it got bad or mixed reviews when it came out and on mostly the power of new generations and probably just as much to do with continuity it’s survived.   Changing back to our original colours probably saved a permanent demise.   
 

Thing that is hilarious, the BlackHawks have had one of the most popular selling uniforms and one of the most highest ranked ones (by professional designers) over the past decade.   THN did a mag ranking the best hockey (top 50) uniforms all-time - they were near the top of the list (all pro designers doing the ranking).   Vancouver didn’t have ONE in their top 50, several junior teams made the cut - as did some esoteric ones too - the Trail Smoke Eaters was around the top ten.     They did rank our Skate ones the highest, followed by the SIR and finally the Orca.    On the SIR, they really liked it and it made honourable mention - felt it was abandoned way too early as well as being cutting edge for the time in its simplicity.   Felt the V was a bit mess, and the Orca a major fail - but did acknowledge that a lot of major fails happened around the same time (fish-sticks NYI, Buffalo-slug, half the league going to black all at once etc).    They also acknowledged that Vancouver was ahead of its time with the Skate and using black.    Unfortunately it was copied by a lot of the league - said if we kept our Skate it would have meant a lot more then it did.   
 

Personally I think continuity is more important then change at this point.   My favourite is the Skate for sure, and hope they make it the third uni permanently, Horvat never looked more boss then he did wearing that - same with every player on the team, even our fourth liners.    Because they were the best.   SIR ... well I was a baby then so can’t comment too much - other then it’s also pretty darn good.    It’s just a logo.   The uniforms matter more to be, the colours are fine now.   And with two generations of new fans growing up with the WCE and Sedin teams I completely get how fierce some might be to want to keep the Orca.     And feel we are better off just doing that.    Sure would like to see a lot more games with the Skate and SIR...hope they keep that up.   Even the V would be fun to watch....

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

7 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

This is so confusing, I so want the orca gone but this is just wrong, uggggghhhh.

[Baggins]

23 hours ago, BoKnows said:

 

 

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/12/15/vancouver-canucks-orca-indigenous/

The biggest problem with the three teams mentioned is their very names are offensive to indigenous people.

[YearoftheNuck]

This is a great opportunity for local indigenous people to step and squash this... or if they are offended, then voice their opinions. Personally I feel like we are living in an incredibly over sensitive time. 

[JM_]

17 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

I don't disagree but at what point do habitually offended people move on and live their lives. Once this passes they’ll move on to the next thing that “offends” them and frankly it's tiring at best now. 

I don't much like what the term 'progressive' has become either. I'm a Liberal supporter but I don't support what so-called progressives are doing. It really is bordering on Puritanism in many ways. 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

And another part of the problem, IMO, is the non-indigenous people who 'genuinely care' about FN, that will try to paint something like this or Holtby's mask as some big problem - while ignoring much more important issues the indigenous communities are facing. 

 

E.g: 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5887716/first-nations-boil-water-advisories/

 

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/canada-indigenous-drinking-water-dangers/

 

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/07/20/features/we-feel-were-held-hostage-say-diesel-dependent-first-nations

 

Seems to me like these would be more important issues to have a conversation about before some sports team. That's not to say you can't have both conversations - but it seems like alot more time & energy is going to sports stories. 

bingo. We're talking about a logo, that BC First Nations at worst are indifferent to and some actually seem to like, and not these other issues. 

 

But, I do really like what the BC grand chief had to say about the Canucks organization so thats really good to see. Some good seems to be coming out of this despite the intent of the broadscast and that noob prof from Winnipeg. 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[Baggins]

23 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

If Holtby’s mask is a problem then this is a problem. 
where is the line between honouring the local heritage and cultural appropriation?  
Do I have to be Spanish or French to paint in a cubist style?

If I make tacos for dinner have I done something wrong?

I don’t know where the line is anymore. 

It does raise the question of where the line is drawn. Do Chinese restaurants have to take burger and fries off their menu? Do pubs and restaurants have to stick to a single cuisine based on the owners ethnicity? I remember somebody claiming caucasian's with dreadlocks were guilty of cultural appropriation. Would that not in turn rule out African Americans from straightening their hair and dying it blond? Then there's Cardi B's video where Kardashian was being called out for cultural appropriation for wearing a leopard print while Cardi B was wearing a tiger print. Well tigers aren't native to Africa so Cardi B would also be guilty of appropriation.

 

Do whites have to stop rapping? Do you need to be white to play classical or country? Do Asians need to stop wearing and manufacturing western style clothing and stick to their own ancestral clothing style? If the Orca is appropriation do Haida artists need to restrict themselves to that style of art alone? Meaning native artists cannot do European style paintings of people or landscapes. I believe in the two way street.

 

The truth is when it comes to art, music, and clothing styles various cultures and ethnicities have influenced each other for centuries.

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, Baggins said:

It does raise the question of where the line is drawn. Do Chinese restaurants have to take burger and fries off their menu? Do pubs and restaurants have to stick to a single cuisine based on the owners ethnicity? I remember somebody claiming caucasian's with dreadlocks were guilty of cultural appropriation. Would that not in turn rule out African Americans from straightening their hair and dying it blond? Then there's Cardi B's video where Kardashian was being called out for cultural appropriation for wearing a leopard print while Cardi B was wearing a tiger print. Well tigers aren't native to Africa so Cardi B would also be guilty of appropriation.

 

Do whites have to stop rapping? Do you need to be white to play classical or country? Do Asians need to stop wearing and manufacturing western style clothing and stick to their own ancestral clothing style? If the Orca is appropriation do Haida artists need to restrict themselves to that style of art alone? Meaning native artists cannot do European style paintings of people or landscapes. I believe in the two way street.

 

The truth is when it comes to art, music, and clothing styles various cultures and ethnicities have influenced each other for centuries.

^ this is all firmly in the realm of the ridiculous, which is where these discussions always end up, imo because what gets forgotten is just having a basic level of respect for people. Which is clearly what the Canucks organization did with the orca logo, by discussing it with Reid and others, and also through other respectful engagement with the Salish nation.

 

Once everyone found out the real story, it popped the "progressive" balloon pretty damn fast.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[BoKnows]

 

 

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

 

 

That’s nice but I think white people on Twitter who took an aboriginal studies class would know a little bit more about what’s offensive and what’s not.

[Pears]

15 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

 

 

Ok, shut this discussion down. It’s over. 

[The Lock]

This might be the dumbest thread (and idea) that I have heard in my over 10 years on this site...

 

Unfortunately, I actually mean that.

 

Quick edit: This also shows how educational institutions are often out of touch with the realities of the outside world. I found this to be the case in my studies in computer science where I learned a lot of theory (which does help to a degree) but less technologies that actually would get me hired)

Edited December 16, 2020 by The Lock

[Jester13]

Sean Carleton is a $h!tty historian if he can't even take a few moments to research the creation of the logo and how Orca Bay Sports and Entertainment consulted with local Indigenous peoples to ensure their corporate logo was okay and didn't cross any lines. 

[Tiger-Hearted]

8 hours ago, Bitter Melon said:

Time to retire the "Canucks" name too. Its only a matter of time until somebody complains. Might as well get out of ahead of everything in one fell swoop.

Never going to happen. If so, what about the Yankees baseball team?

[Baggins]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

^ this is all firmly in the realm of the ridiculous, which is where these discussions always end up, imo because what gets forgotten is just having a basic level of respect for people. Which is clearly what the Canucks organization did with the orca logo, by discussing it with Reid and others, and also through other respectful engagement with the Salish nation.

 

Once everyone found out the real story, it popped the "progressive" balloon pretty damn fast.

 

 

 

I agree it's in the realm of the ridiculous. But in some cases claims of appropriation fall in the ridiculous like the Cardi B video or dreadlocks or rap music. But such claims do beg the question of where the line is. When the line is pushed, is it reasonable to say it should in turn be a two way street? I completely agree with changing the names of the Eskimos, Redskins, and Indians as they are all terms those ethnicities find offensive. Those are completely valid complaints. But when you push it to an animal print or hair style it is certainly heading into the ridiculous. 

[vancouverbucsfan]

19 hours ago, drummerboy said:

So, assuming the Italians are ok with us going back to the spaghetti skate, I’d be super jazzed to do it.  The orca sucks.  
 

But I’d be so choked if we went with any kind of Johnny Canuck logo.   
It’s Jr team logo for kids.  

As an alternate third jersey it'd have made sense. The kids love Johnny Canuck and a lot of us adults do to. Even had they just do it as an alternate jersey for say ten games a season. You don't think this jersey looks sharp and wouldn't have sold? I'd have lined up to buy one had they gone with this and so would a lot of Canuck fans. The team can do whatever they want with their primary but do a Johnny Canuck one so everyone can be pleased as I see we Canuck fans aren't all in agreement on a proper logo and it isn't going to end anytime soon. I don't know what is so 'beer league' looking about it or junior team as you imply? In my US travels to go watch the Canucks play in Vegas, Arizona, etc. I have usually worn my green Johnny Canuck jersey and I've had other teams fans come up and ask me about the jersey that they have never seen it before. They tell me tell your team to throw it on a jersey and we'd buy one. The team should just do one to please those fans especially the little kids that like the Johnny Canuck logo. I mean you already see Johnny Canuck on a lot of the teams merchandise and it sells well so wouldn't it make sense to finally put it on a jersey already? In 2011 at the teams superskills competition they wore a Johnny Canuck practice jersey and people bought them up game worn practice worn right afterwards. Sold all of them out no problem. So do one finally and it'll please everyone that would like to see one done.

Edited December 16, 2020 by vancouverbucsfan
spelling correction

[22Sedinery33]

Nothing is wrong with the logo. Get over it. Too many sensitive people drawing lines where lines shouldn't even be drawn. For the argument using a local artist, that should have been 20 years ago if it was that big of a deal. 

[Lancaster]

It's like people go out of their way to get offended.

 

Someday just having the sweater with only the letters:  CANUCKS

would be deemed offensive as using only the Latin alphabet isn't inclusive enough as it doesn't have Sankrit, Chinese, Japanese, Cyrillic, Persian, etc.  

[Baggins]

9 hours ago, Bitter Melon said:

Time to retire the "Canucks" name too. Its only a matter of time until somebody complains. Might as well get out of ahead of everything in one fell swoop.

Well it was a highly offensive term to French Canadians at one time. I've been told there's still some oldtimers in Quebec that still view it as offensive. As the logo issue failed miserably on to phase 2... the team name.