Coronavirus outbreak

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

In Penticton today and saw a group of women screaming at a Winners/Homesense sales associate at the door about masks.  The associate was merely stating that it's a corporate mandate and that as a private business they have the right to refuse service based on dress code.

 

The group of Karens, or "strata council" as a group of Karens is called; were livid, screaming and losing their minds.

 

Imagine being so self entitled that discounted throw pillows caused you to scream profanities at a store sales associate who is; I forgot to add partially deaf and clearly disabled.

What do you call 144 Karens?

 

Gross ignorance....

[Wilbur]

33 minutes ago, gurn said:

Ferry employee here:

Policy, before my days off, was:

Passengers, have and wear a mask if you can't maintain 6 feet distance. However, if you can stay 6 feet apart or are with family, no mask required.

Employees, have the mask, and wear it if you are having to get close to people.

As a deckhand I wear it as much as possible.

Funny thing,  They have an announcement that says" The best/safest way to travel is stay in your car," but that same announcement says" We have a selection of grab and go items in our cafeteria/snackbar".

Mixed message much.?

And this is the world wide response in a nutshell, economy before public health.

[samurai]

29 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

And this is the world wide response in a nutshell, economy before public health.

yeah obviously economy before health because from Feb to June the world economy shrunk at an unprecedented rate.  Stick to the facts

[kingofsurrey]

48 minutes ago, samurai said:

yeah obviously economy before health because from Feb to June the world economy shrunk at an unprecedented rate.  Stick to the facts

USA stock market is record high today actually...  Please stick to the facts....

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53745009

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by kingofsurrey

[samurai]

24 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

USA stock market is record high today actually...  Please stick to the facts....

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53745009

 

I turned it upside down for you.

Edited August 19, 2020 by samurai

[BoKnows]

2 minutes ago, samurai said:

I turned it upside down for you. 

GDP growth and stock market returns aren't them same thing.

[samurai]

1 minute ago, BoKnows said:

GDP growth and stock market returns aren't them same thing.

Really

[BoKnows]

1 minute ago, samurai said:

Really

Sorry I didn't see the context before KOS' post, you're right.

[Russ]

3 hours ago, Kakanucks said:

Wearing a face mask now or end up wearing a ventilator mask?? I know which one I would choose.

 

I think in hindsight, the government shouldn't have denounced face mask usage in the beginning in fear of supply shortage.

There wasn't nearly enough masks for health care from day 1. Let alone guys who were buying pallets and reselling. I don't like that people are doing that but they needed make good health care. 

[samurai]

4 hours ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

It's certainly frustrating that those kinds of responses to mask wearing requests or requirements are still happening.  Sorry that the sales associate had to experience it.

 

I wonder if it's at all persuasive to run a campaign to emphasize that mask wearing is not so much about protection yourself as it is about protecting others.  I see argumentation from people who are opposed to mask wearing along the lines of, "I'm not worried about getting the virus and masks are of limited value for protecting me from it anyway".  While masks aren't particularly effective at protecting a wearer from getting COVID, it seems relatively well established that masks do significantly reduce spread when people who could spread the virus wear masks.  Wearing a mask therefore helps each person to protect those around them.

 

I agree with previous posters that buy-in needs to be from the top and from industry however.  I haven't taken the ferry since the pandemic started but if ferry staff aren't wearing masks, then that doesn't really send a great message to passengers when they have otherwise made it a requirement  for passengers.

If you actually read the research on masks in real settings their effectiveness is not 'well established' at all - far from it.  

 

I am sure most of the anti-mask people though haven't read the research either.  The WHO provides a good synopsis on mask research but for the average person it is probably difficult to understand.  It is not black and white either way.  I live in a country where everyone wears a mask pretty much.  Despite this infections are smashing records.  

 

Where I am many large stores offer free masks to wear upon entrance and kindly ask if you would wear one - they don't tell you to, but kindly ask in person if you would be open to wearing one.  From experience most people will oblige.   You do not need 100% compliance but giving some choice can make all the difference.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spur1]

Exactly... people and government are so wrapped up in the almighty dollar that they are willing to sacrifice (reminds me of the Aztecs.) people’s  lives To keep the almighty economy going. 
The thing is there is no shortage of resources and food if the rich weren’t taking way more than their share. 
Come on...get real...there are rich that will fly to ... oh let’s say Paris... for lunch. What a waste while others starve. 
It is long past time we shut down the Americans and European capitalism that caters to the excessive greed. 

[stawns]

24 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Exactly... people and government are so wrapped up in the almighty dollar that they are willing to sacrifice (reminds me of the Aztecs.) people’s  lives To keep the almighty economy going. 
The thing is there is no shortage of resources and food if the rich weren’t taking way more than their share. 
Come on...get real...there are rich that will fly to ... oh let’s say Paris... for lunch. What a waste while others starve. 
It is long past time we shut down the Americans and European capitalism that caters to the excessive greed. 

Therein lies the downfall of western civilization

[spur1]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

Therein lies the downfall of western civilization

Shades of Lemmings 

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, gurn said:

Ferry employee here:

Policy, before my days off, was:

Passengers, have and wear a mask if you can't maintain 6 feet distance. However, if you can stay 6 feet apart or are with family, no mask required.

Employees, have the mask, and wear it if you are having to get close to people.

As a deckhand I wear it as much as possible.

Funny thing,  They have an announcement that says" The best/safest way to travel is stay in your car," but that same announcement says" We have a selection of grab and go items in our cafeteria/snackbar".

Mixed message much.?

I think it's one of those places where workers / employees are most exposed - and a place that is about as high traffic (with many out of province people) as it gets.

 

I find it really hard to 'maintain' 6 feet distance from people in places like the hallways of the ferries - not that realistic.   Thankfully there are small numbers of cases here, and not many people in public showing symptoms - so it might be reasonable that we relaxed the risk response somewhat.  However, I also think 'we' were somewhat fortunate this isn't a more virulent threat - because how unprepared we were was/is fairly evident, and the richest country in the world still doesn't seem able to manage themselves.

 

I suppose the problem is also - who wants to police this kind of micro-personal-behavioural stuff?  

Perhaps I shouldn't single out the ferries  - however it's one of those intersections - and for me I've always found the ferry instructions borderline comedic.  They're so 'nice' - so Canadian.

"Please park withing 18 inches (or whatever) of the car in front of you so that (essentially they leave less people waiting behind)".....and then very few people actually do.  

It's that kind of thing that makes me wonder if we're too polite.  Not talking about ballbusting either - simply try instructing people with a bit more assertion ie take the 'please' out of it. 

Likewise with car alarms.  "If your car alarm goes off while on the lower car deck, your car will be vandalized, impounded and you will be banned from travelling on BC ferries in the future."  Something along those lines so 'we' get the message. 

[oldnews]

13 hours ago, samurai said:

If you actually read the research on masks in real settings their effectiveness is not 'well established' at all - far from it.  

 

I am sure most of the anti-mask people though haven't read the research either.  The WHO provides a good synopsis on mask research but for the average person it is probably difficult to understand.  It is not black and white either way.  I live in a country where everyone wears a mask pretty much.  Despite this infections are smashing records.  

 

Where I am many large stores offer free masks to wear upon entrance and kindly ask if you would wear one - they don't tell you to, but kindly ask in person if you would be open to wearing one.  From experience most people will oblige.   You do not need 100% compliance but giving some choice can make all the difference. 

What is that supposed to mean though?  A wishy washy claim - about "their effectiveness" allegedly 'not established'.  I appreciate that you're not 'black and white' on the matter yourself, but I think the risk is that the baby is thrown out in the bathwater of this kind of 'debate'.

 

Do masks prevent transmission?  No, they do not.  Do they represent a barrier than can reduce transmission?  Clearly, simply, obviously.

You may not have read 'science' that you find convincing for your purposes ('philosophizing' can easily negate science in many minds)  -but  in that case forget 'science' and resort to simple common sense.

A person is standing in front of you - and they are going to sneeze:  do you prefer they're wearing a mask, or not? 

Simple answer imo  - I realize sneezing is not associated with covid symptoms - but this  is simply to illustrate a point. 

Facial protection is a barrier between one respiratory tract and another, simple as that, and more effective than the lack of a barrier.

 

You live in a country where the vast majority of people where masks - and yet outbreak continues.  The risk in a one-liner like that is reductive, either/or, all or nothing logic -  that is problematic if you then believe that alone indicates a lack of 'effectiveness'.  That kind of binary mentality is what leads to pro and anti mask nonsense - that there are "anti-maskers" illustrates how dysfunctional we've become - addicted to ideology and making sides of literally everything, including such a mundane, essentially non-political issue as a mask.  It's borderline mass infantile.  I get that companies like 3M opportunize circumstances like this and milk people in a time of need - that is political - but the idea of facial protection = is not  - it's a simple public health mechanism.

 

The majority of transimission of viruses like Covid is via hands - which is possibly your explanation right there - as to why transmission continues where you are in spite of widespread mask use.  It's not that simple - to 'discredit' the use of masks, by illustrating a context in which their 'effectiveness' is allegedly not 'established' - when the principal form of transmiission is not directly respiratory.

Outbreaks where you live, does not 'establish' that masks are not 'effective' - all it illustrates is that they are a 'secondary' defense - one imo that is very worthwhile - but people need to protect themselves and others in a more comprehensive way than simple faith in a mask as a panacea - which they are not.   They simply reduce the chances of transmission, not eliminate them (and people need to avoid hands to face / constant adjustment of masks etc  = which can defeat the purpose of wearing facial protection.

 

As for people being asked kindly whether they'd like one - and most people obliging - I'd venture to guess that you live in a place where the culture is probably not as "me-first" as in North America - where asking kindly may not be sufficient.  For example, at the outset of this pandemic, where I live, public health authorities put "kind" signs in parks asking people to avoid bringing large groups of children together in common play areas to avoid them toching/using/contacting high traffice surfaces/objects.  Of course,  very few people heeded the 'kindness' and parks were overloaded with people disregarding the 'kind' suggestions (and I suspect this would be even more the case south of the border, where for some people everything seems to boil down to their personal 'freedom' and 'liberty'.   "Kindness" may work in Tokyo,  Singapore, Hong Kong....but in North America, probably not quite as 'effective' a message.

 

I don't simply wear a mask for protection - I also wear it out of regard for those that have gotten sick and have died from this, and those that still could.

 

On that note - one thing I'm thankful for in the context of the NHL - is that while they've pushed forward with the business of finishing the postseason - they've also done things to set an example - ie every GM you see sitting up in those press boxes wears a mask - so in that sense it's good to see some "adults in the room" - and corporate responsibility integrated in the need to re-engage the economy.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by oldnews

[oldnews]

19 hours ago, coho8888 said:

The province should never have allowed night clubs and bars to open.  The business plans for these establishments just doesn't work when you have the restrictions put in place because of a pandemic.  Restaurants have a tough time making money right now with these rules in place even though they are serving food, have a higher turnover and are able to serve take out.  Very few people go to a club to sit quietly in a table of 6 in a dark room paying for over priced drinks.  Clubs make their money through volume and cover charges.  The type of activities at these places during normal times are the riskiest when it comes to the spread of a virus.  Wishful thinking on the province's part that this would work out.  Also the fact that these clubs are open give young people the impression that everything is back to normal.  Hey the clubs are open right?  Covid must not be a factor anymore right?

 

Exactly.  People are complaining constantly about young people - partying - as if this is the principal or isolated reason covid continues to spread.

 

That annoys me - for a number of reasons.   As you point out, health authorities are human themselves, and are making contradictory decisions based on competing interests/imperatives - some to protect public health, others to prevent further economic hardship.  It's not an easy edge to manage - but young people correctly recognize the inconsistent cues - and they are going to want to be young people - so if the province wants to posture the kind of moral authority they are, they need to get their act together themselves.  Imo their response overall has been bordeline 'adequate' - but with a lot of holes in their gameplan.  Again, I think we've been very fortunate in general - with the exception of what has happened in care homes - something that was exceedingly predictable however, and largely preventable.  This could have and still could get a lot worse.

 

For me - it's a simple as setting an example themselves.  As I mentioned in the last post NHL GMs are wearing masks in press boxes where often they appear to be the only person in the room - in large part, likely to set an example / make a statement of responsbility.

 

Meanwhile - here's our Premier, appealing to young people to act responsibly.....

 

 

Patently obvious that there is a :"do as I say, not as I do" element to the message?   Ie where a mask yourselves or shut your cakeholes?  I realize they are 6 feet apart, but that is really beside the point = to me this is an elementary oversight on their part.

Edited August 19, 2020 by oldnews

[stawns]

34 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Exactly.  People are complaining constantly about young people - partying - as if this is the principal or isolated reason covid continues to spread.

 

That annoys me - for a number of reasons.   As you point out, health authorities are human themselves, and are making contradictory decisions based on competing interests/imperatives - some to protect public health, others to prevent further economic hardship.  It's not an easy edge to manage - but young people correctly recognize the inconsistent cues - and they are going to want to be young people - so if the province wants to posture the kind of moral authority they are, they need to get their act together themselves.  Imo their response overall has been bordeline 'adequate' - but with a lot of holes in their gameplan.  Again, I think we've been very fortunate in general - with the exception of what has happened in care homes - something that was exceedingly predictable however, and largely preventable.  This could have and still could get a lot worse.

 

For me - it's a simple as setting an example themselves.  As I mentioned in the last post NHL GMs are wearing masks in press boxes where often they appear to be the only person in the room - in large part, likely to set an example / make a statement of responsbility.

 

Meanwhile - here's our Premier, appealing to young people to act responsibly.....

 

 

Patently obvious that there is a :"do as I say, not as I do" element to the message?   Ie where a mask yourselves or shut your cakeholes?  I realize they are 6 feet apart, but that is really beside the point = to me this is an elementary oversight on their part.

I've said from the beginning the "Mrs Doubtfire" approach of asking nicely simply wasn't going to work.  They've been fence sitting from day one and it's going to backfire because we have so many selfish, narcissist members of our province.

[-DLC-]

I think the "nice" approach was a good lead in but it's now just resulting in a total tune out.  Yeah yeah yeah stuff where people are opting to move past this regardless.

 

When we say "young people"....teenagers, sure.  But, honestly, once you hit your twenties and can drive, drink, vote, there's an expectation to also be somewhat responsible.  I DO hold these idiots responsible in their decision making.  I have kids in their 20's...they're following the guidelines.  

 

Most of us liked to party when we were young...but if faced with the prospect of people possibly dying?   Tone it down and stay within your group...no need to wander the streets as team yahoo and show absolute defiance.  I am not giving young people a pass...because they should have more common sense.

 

They've been given options and they're opting out.  That's their choice but when they get things totally shut down they'll have to own their decisions and not whine about their freedom being stripped away.  Yeah...blew that.

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I think the "nice" approach was a good lead in but it's now just resulting in a total tune out.  Yeah yeah yeah stuff where people are opting to move past this regardless.

 

When we say "young people"....teenagers, sure.  But, honestly, once you hit your twenties and can drive, drink, vote, there's an expectation to also be somewhat responsible.  I DO hold these idiots responsible in their decision making.  I have kids in their 20's...they're following the guidelines.  

 

Most of us liked to party when we were young...but if faced with the prospect of people possibly dying?   Tone it down and stay within your group...no need to wander the streets as team yahoo and show absolute defiance.  I am not giving young people a pass...because they should have more common sense.

 

They've been given options and they're opting out.  That's their choice but when they get things totally shut down they'll have to own their decisions and not whine about their freedom being stripped away.  Yeah...blew that.

I was as wreckless as anyone when I was young, took stupid chances, put myself in dangerous situations.  However, I would never have put other people in those situations and I would never, ever have messed around with a deadly virus.

[oldnews]

16 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I think the "nice" approach was a good lead in but it's now just resulting in a total tune out.  Yeah yeah yeah stuff where people are opting to move past this regardless.

 

When we say "young people"....teenagers, sure.  But, honestly, once you hit your twenties and can drive, drink, vote, there's an expectation to also be somewhat responsible.  I DO hold these idiots responsible in their decision making.  I have kids in their 20's...they're following the guidelines.  

 

Most of us liked to party when we were young...but if faced with the prospect of people possibly dying?   Tone it down and stay within your group...no need to wander the streets as team yahoo and show absolute defiance.  I am not giving young people a pass...because they should have more common sense.

 

They've been given options and they're opting out.  That's their choice but when they get things totally shut down they'll have to own their decisions and not whine about their freedom being stripped away.  Yeah...blew that.

You're right - when I say young people - I mean the entire/larger demographic - and am including 20 -40 year olds in that - and I believe that the larger proportion of the cases (covid) of 'young people' are actually closer to the 30 yr old range than teenagers. 

I'm not giving them a free pass, but I also don't believe the Province is in a position of moral authority, to effectively call them out. 

If you want to get through to them - don't call Ryan Reynolds - if you haven't put a fn mask on yourself.

If your key intersections - like BC ferries - are not following through on their own guidelines - it sends a subtle, but clear message.  As others have pointed out - the Province opens bars and restaurants and then wonders why 'young people' are gathering at beaches (or wherever).

Clean up our old people bedrooms first, and then we can ask the kids to clean theirs.

Edited August 19, 2020 by oldnews