Coronavirus outbreak

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

Do you think if our government had taken protective measures earlier on, say when reports of the virus first broke out similar to how Taiwan did it, that people would’ve been happy with it? I don’t think so. 

Peoples happiness and the safety of the general population may not always intersect. That’s fine. Plenty of people have suffered during this pandemic. The loss of jobs, businesses and various other things has had a severe effect on people. A quicker return to normalcy is probably far more preferable to most people than a prolonged state of anxiety, fear, and flux. But my post wasn’t based on the Canadian government’s response. 

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

I think they started to respond to it at the right time, they just didn’t respond heavily enough. 

They did. For sure. The CERB certainly helped a lot of people survive. The biggest failure, which isn’t purely a Canadian one, is that air travel has been allowed to continue throughout the pandemic, continuing the spread exponentially. 

[Sean Monahan]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

But my post wasn’t based on the Canadian government’s response. 

My bad, thought it was. 

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The CCP is a political party and doesn’t represent the entirety of the Chinese population, so it’s not as simple as your myopic “blame China for everything” statement. I’ve known numerous people from China who have told me horrible accounts of how the government deals with people. 
 

The CCP is a totalitarian government that has displayed no interest in allowing its people to have the ability to speak freely, especially when it comes to criticism of the government. 
 

It’s unfortunate that you automatically see the criticism of a government and react as if it’s a condemnation of its entire populace and diaspora. Jinping would love you. 

I'm not denying they're an authoritarian govt, but as someone who grew up in the heat of the cold war, it's a useless venture.  It's going to be far better to work with them than against them.  

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

The vaccine apparently takes effect within couple days of injection.

 

From my understanding, once vaccinated, the vaccine will assist one recover even though they contracted Covid while it was taking effect, thus eliminating any hospitalization need.

 

That's not what the nurse who gave me my shot said.....I was told 2 weeks.

 

No offense intended, but I think I'll go with her opinion.....

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Yes, that's why it likely became a pandemic despite millions of dollars spent on disease surveillance by China.  After 2003 SARS (China kept it secret in Nov 2002, and the world didn't find out until after it had spread to Hong Kong), China got embarrassed and took a heavy economic hit. They started to invest in respiratory disease surveillance, wildlife trade ban (didn't last), set up level 4 virology lab in Wuhan, invited and collaborated with international experts.  You think they learned their lesson.

Exactly. They formed a CDC within a couple of years designed to prevent a SARS type outbreak from happening again. They invited American and European scientists to build the agency. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

When the surge of unknown pneumonia cases flooded the hospitals in Wuhan in Dec 2019, drs were suspecting SARS. There were clusters of patients that had link to the Hunan market, but some didn't. This was an alarm bell that human to human transmission was present. The drs that tried to warn this got arrested by the police and made to write an apology letter for spreading rumors. WTF. One of them was the famous Dr. Li, who later died of covid. 

Li Wenliang was an optometrist by trade and merely communicated with colleagues via social media. The intimidation that he and other brave people in China received from the government was horrific. These people were trying to do right by their fellow humans. And they were punished. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

The local government in Wuhan wanted to keep this quiet, since in Jan 2020 they were scheduled to meet with the central government. Beijing heard about this in Jan then send their head public health guy to investigate. That's when they shut down Wuhan a city of 11 million and built those hospitals in a week or so. Now imagine if China did that a month earlier? Maybe they could have contained it. Who knows. 

Imagine if the government listened to the medical community in Wuhan and weren’t so absolutely concerned about their international image and maintaining “stability”. The people of China deserve better than the totalitarian regime they presently reside under. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Future pandemics will come. We have so much evidence that SARS like coronaviruses are all over East Asia, from Thailand to Japan.  The world must set up a system that reporting a threat will be supported, rather than punished.

Agreed. No one sets out (hopefully) to create viruses to wipe out life. When they do rear their ugly heads, the countries of the world should all view working together to control the spread as a positive for everyone, and not a political tool. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Political pressure to stop wildlife farming and trade is also important.  Animal health matters. More humane farming to keep animals healthier etc. 

Exactly. Question for you? What do you think is a major contributor to the prevalence and proliferation of viruses? Is an ever growing global population a factor? Obviously most, if not all viruses, are zoonotic in origin, and keeping numerous animals in deplorable conditions contributed to COVID coming to be in the markets in Wuhan. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Who isn't angry at Chinese government? But to attack them will only end up with resistance and not cooperation.

I partially agree. I have serious doubts about the CCP’s real interest in working with other governments. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Going down the virus weapon /lab leak theory is just a waste of time. Why would they make something that is already in the wild? 

Covid is a novel coronavirus that the scientific community has never seen before. I’ve read reports where it doesn’t possess traits of other known coronaviruses.
 

That being said, the US and Canada have worked with personnel from the lab in Wuhan, and vice versa, so I can’t believe that it’s one country trying to wipe out other countries. 

 

One has to wonder why the local government and medical community  didn’t lean more so on personnel working at the lab to get a handle on it. I’d assume that the CCP would have inserted themselves into those communications. 

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

And we give too much credit to scientists. We don't know why the virus is virulent or not simply by looking at the sequence. Wild bat coronavirus can bind ACE2 receptor. In fact the pangolin coronavirus binds ACE2 even better. MERS, another coronavirus from camels, doesn't even use ACE2 receptor and has a much higher case fatality rate (30%).  Coronaviruses don't just cause human epidemics but other animal too. Most recently in 2016 SADS coronavirus, swine acute diarrhea syndrome in pigs. Killed millions of piglets in China.  2012/13 in USA, they was the porcine epidemic diarrhea virus (PEDV) caused by coronavirus. 

This stuff happens all the time. 

 

Thanks for this information. 

[PhillipBlunt]

20 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

My bad, thought it was. 

No worries. I thought that the government did about as good a job as they could have. Except for allowing air travel to continue. Why were the airlines spared? Millions of people have lost their businesses and just had to “readjust”, but the airlines have continued and spread the virus on a daily basis. 

[PhillipBlunt]

42 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'm not denying they're an authoritarian govt, but as someone who grew up in the heat of the cold war, it's a useless venture.  It's going to be far better to work with them than against them.  

The CCP doesn’t seem interested in working with any country unless it’s to their advantage first. Very similar to the US, but the US at least does a better impression of being a free society. 

[Jaimito]

42 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Exactly. They formed a CDC within a couple of years designed to prevent a SARS type outbreak from happening again. They invited American and European scientists to build the agency. 

Li Wenliang was an optometrist by trade and merely communicated with colleagues via social media. The intimidation that he and other brave people in China received from the government was horrific. These people were trying to do right by their fellow humans. And they were punished. 

Imagine if the government listened to the medical community in Wuhan and weren’t so absolutely concerned about their international image and maintaining “stability”. The people of China deserve better than the totalitarian regime they presently reside under. 

Agreed. No one sets out (hopefully) to create viruses to wipe out life. When they do rear their ugly heads, the countries of the world should all view working together to control the spread as a positive for everyone, and not a political tool. 

Exactly. Question for you? What do you think is a major contributor to the prevalence and proliferation of viruses? Is an ever growing global population a factor? Obviously most, if not all viruses, are zoonotic in origin, and keeping numerous animals in deplorable conditions contributed to COVID coming to be in the markets in Wuhan. 

I partially agree. I have serious doubts about the CCP’s real interest in working with other governments. 

Covid is a novel coronavirus that the scientific community has never seen before. I’ve read reports where it doesn’t possess traits of other known coronaviruses.
 

That being said, the US and Canada have worked with personnel from the lab in Wuhan, and vice versa, so I can’t believe that it’s one country trying to wipe out other countries. 

 

One has to wonder why the local government and medical community  didn’t lean more so on personnel working at the lab to get a handle on it. I’d assume that the CCP would have inserted themselves into those communications. 

Thanks for this information. 

I think human overpopulation and travel is a huge factor. These pandemics seem to be more frequent than the last century. 8 billion people and air travel is very different from our prehistoric ancestors that lived as hunter-gatherers. 

 

Osterholm's lecture on emerging diseases is quite enlightening. I recommend his book if you are into this.  

 

 

 

[Jaimito]

BC moving up. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Jaimito

[PhillipBlunt]

22 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

I think human overpopulation and travel is a huge factor. These pandemics seem to be more frequent than the last century. 8 billion people and air travel is very different from our prehistoric ancestors that lived as hunter-gatherers. 

 

Osterholm's lecture on emerging diseases is quite enlightening. I recommend his book if you are into this.  

 

 

 

Thanks Jaimito. 

[4petesake]

43 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

I think human overpopulation and travel is a huge factor. These pandemics seem to be more frequent than the last century. 8 billion people and air travel is very different from our prehistoric ancestors that lived as hunter-gatherers. 

 

Osterholm's lecture on emerging diseases is quite enlightening. I recommend his book if you are into this.  

 

 

 

This is probably vastly over-simplified but I watched it a pre-covid and found it interesting. It’s an easy to understand video by CGP Grey on plagues that others might like.

 

 

 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The CCP doesn’t seem interested in working with any country unless it’s to their advantage first. Very similar to the US, but the US at least does a better impression of being a free society. 

Hard to say, but I don't think we've treated them all that well either.  We love their slave labour, but give them no respect for the impact they've had on our society.  It's been a very one sided relationship and now that they are flexing their muscles, we turn them into the boogeyman, even if they have earned much of that themselves

 

They are the super power of the world and if we can't find ways to work with them, the entire planet suffers.

 

[UKNuck96]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56663969
 

possitive signs of vaccines in the UK breaking the link between infection and death. 
 

still a long way to go but if we stay the course should be through this sooner rather than later

[-DLC-]

 

[GSP*]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-bc-to-limit-screening-for-covid-19-variants-of-concern/

 

We're already the worst province in terms of testing rates among the big four provinces by a huge margin, might as well double down on our lack of data.

 

Edit - Although I guess it doesn't matter, it's not like they would act on what they found anyways.

Edited April 8, 2021 by GSP*

[johngould21]

12 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

 

That's not what the nurse who gave me my shot said.....I was told 2 weeks.

 

No offense intended, but I think I'll go with her opinion.....

My wife and I went through several lines prior to getting our first vaccination. I was asked by a doctor no less, if I had any questions. My question was how long before we get to visit our grandkids, etc. Her answer, 2 to 3 weeks. My wife said that she asked if it might be sooner than the 16 weeks between Pfizer shots, and she was told they are saying that because they don't want people's hopes to be dashed if supplies become an issue. 

We were also told, that if you have an appointment date, and you happen to show up at a center prior to that date, and they have extra vaccinations leftover, ie: no shows or cancellations, they will more than likely accept you.

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, johngould21 said:

My wife and I went through several lines prior to getting our first vaccination. I was asked by a doctor no less, if I had any questions. My question was how long before we get to visit our grandkids, etc. Her answer, 2 to 3 weeks. My wife said that she asked if it might be sooner than the 16 weeks between Pfizer shots, and she was told they are saying that because they don't want people's hopes to be dashed if supplies become an issue. 

We were also told, that if you have an appointment date, and you happen to show up at a center prior to that date, and they have extra vaccinations leftover, ie: no shows or cancellations, they will more than likely accept you.

I've been hearing the same. It's basically a case of "we have the shots....lets use them"....

 

When I got my shot, there were probably more volunteers working the site than there were people waiting to get their vaccinations. We were asked the standard "are you feeling ill" questions no less than three times, yet we were still in and out in less than 30 minutes and that includes the 15 minute waiting period afterward.

 

Later, talking to some friends in my age group, I was told that I could have booked my two daughters' (23 and 26) at the same time, even though the guidelines we were given by Northern Health said that they weren't supposed to be able to book for a few days.

 

Basically, they were doing such an efficient job, they were well ahead of schedule.

 

One anecdotal note as well: When I was on hold, waiting to book my appointment, we got disconnected somehow, just as we started talking to the lady doing the booking. She apparently had call display, because just as I was contemplating another round of "You are caller number 125", she called back and we were able to complete the booking.

[johngould21]

27 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I've been hearing the same. It's basically a case of "we have the shots....lets use them"....

When I got my shot, there were probably more volunteers working the site than there were people waiting to get their vaccinations. We were asked the standard "are you feeling ill" questions no less than three times, yet we were still in and out in less than 30 minutes and that includes the 15 minute waiting period afterward.

Later, talking to some friends in my age group, I was told that I could have booked my two daughters' (23 and 26) at the same time, even though the guidelines we were given by Northern Health said that they weren't supposed to be able to book for a few days.

 

Basically, they were doing such an efficient job, they were well ahead of schedule.

 

One anecdotal note as well: When I was on hold, waiting to book my appointment, we got disconnected somehow, just as we started talking to the lady doing the booking. She apparently had call display, because just as I was contemplating another round of "You are caller number 125", she called back and we were able to complete the booking.

Us, as well. Probably 25 people in the waiting/observing area after their shots, but, double that in traffic control, medical people, and cleaning folks. Very efficient indeed, and professional. The facility in Burnaby, the old Fortius site is the perfect spot for this battle. Why send people to hospitals for vaccinations?

[Jaimito]

For those of you still on the fence regarding AZ risks. 

 

BC is now is likely in the moderate to severe risk of exposure, depending on your job, activities, location, living conditions etc. 

 

Canada is still using AZ for >55. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

29 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

Us, as well. Probably 25 people in the waiting/observing area after their shots, but, double that in traffic control, medical people, and cleaning folks. Very efficient indeed, and professional. The facility in Burnaby, the old Fortius site is the perfect spot for this battle. Why send people to hospitals for vaccinations?

 

Agreed. They used our Civic Center auditorium for ours. Worked perfectly.

Edited April 8, 2021 by RUPERTKBD