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49 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Surrey is literally a dumpster fire hotspot. 
 

It’s not that they deserve to qualify over anyone else in any other region, but it’s the fact that if their transmission gets any worse it’ll affect people greatly in other cities/municipalities within our cohort region ie. the lower mainland. 
 

Everyone deserves the shot and there’s a boatload coming in May to cover a lot of people, fret not. 
 

Also, those pop up camps in surrey are designed for those in that particular area of Surrey. For example, pop up sites in Newton are designed for Newton residents, and so on. 
 

When people from other areas of Surrey or other places try to line up in that queue they dilute the efficacy of trying to get the worst of the worst areas inoculated which only serves to lengthen the time it takes for people of every other area to get their shot/turn. 
 

There’s a method to what many think is madness. 

None of that justifies how they chose to run the pop up, or that they were not turning people away who were not from that area. I'm not sure why you're making excuses for them. 

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15 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

None of that justifies how they chose to run the pop up, or that they were not turning people away who were not from that area. I'm not sure why you're making excuses for them. 

It literally justifies how, why and where the pop up sites were introduced. 
 

That they weren’t turning people away that weren’t from the area is where we agree. There should have been address checks. 
 

Lastly, I’m certainly not defending ’them’( whoever ‘they’ are, aside from being people who live in our region that are doing what they can to address hotspots in our region, for our collective safety).
 

Apparently I have to explain the rationale to those who don’t understand/accept the reasoning. 

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2 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

It literally justifies how, why and where the pop up sites were introduced. 
 

That they weren’t turning people away that weren’t from the area is where we agree. There should have been address checks. 
 

Lastly, I’m certainly not defending ’them’( whoever ‘they’ are, aside from being people who live in our region that are doing what they can to address hotspots in our region, for our collective safety).
 

Apparently I have to explain the rationale to those who don’t understand/accept the reasoning. 

Pop up sites were definitely not rolled out in the best way possible, but this is also another case of how human idiocy is making this pandemic harder to deal with.

 

It's pretty simple, don't be a greedy prick and wait your turn. If you don't work/reside in a hotspot, don't go there to jump the line - you're just making the line longer for everyone who actually needs a shot. Come on people. 

Edited by KoreanHockeyFan
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3 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

If you originate in a country that scans your passport and end in a country that scans your passport, like Canada, and book your passage through a third country, all your travel information is recorded and available to authorities. 

I guess the question is: where is that information recorded, because according to the passport office (ie. the section of the IRCC website I quoted above), it isn't the passport's rf chip.  

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46 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I guess the question is: where is that information recorded, because according to the passport office (ie. the section of the IRCC website I quoted above), it isn't the passport's rf chip.  

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UK rollout going ahead of schedule, currently on the 40+ group, should be down to the 30+ group in a couple of weeks. 
 

large stockpile of Pfizer has been built up to do the under 30 group with.

 

The area I live in hasn’t seen any COVID deaths for 6 weeks, but the all of the abutting counties apart from 1 have had some. But we are trending in the right direction.

 

One thing i do like is that the roll out plan, the grouping and timing have been very clear and they have stuck to it. Basically eldest and most vulnerable first then work down the ages of the health people. 
 

Also like how it’s been driven by the NHS and you either get a letter invite or when published you can ring your GP or local authority to get booked in. None of this register for it bollocks. 
 

Flip flopping and doing targeted hot spots may help reduce the overall deaths of done correctly but I imagine what it probably does or undermine the roll out plan, causes confusion and make people less engaged with the program and the COVID measures put in place so probably doesn’t provide the benefit that  people would assume. 

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3 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I guess the question is: where is that information recorded, because according to the passport office (ie. the section of the IRCC website I quoted above), it isn't the passport's rf chip.  

I work in cyber security for biometrics and I can tell you the RFID chip in passports and other things just contain personal information about you like what is on the bio page of a passport and a photo. You can even scan your passport with a smart phone if you have the right app and gain access to contents of the chip. If you have an iPhone try the app "Regula" it is free and can scan passports. 

 

As for tracking an electronic record is kept every time you visit a country including at the airport and when you apply for a said countries visa. 

 

Remember it doesn't matter how your passport is scanned whether through a smart gate or by a border patrol agent a record is generated even if a stamp was not issued. 

 

So long story short they know when you have arrived/left :bigblush:

 

Edited by drummer4now
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26 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I work in cyber security for biometrics and I can tell you the RFID chip in passports and other things just contain personal information about you like what is on the bio page of a passport and a photo. You can even scan your passport with a smart phone if you have the right app and gain access to contents of the chip. If you have an iPhone try the app "Regula" it is free and can scan passports. 

 

As for tracking an electronic record is kept every time you visit a country including at the airport and when you apply for a said countries visa. 

 

Remember it doesn't matter how your passport is scanned whether through a smart gate or by a border patrol agent a record is generated even if a stamp was not issued. 

 

So long story short they know when you have arrived/left :bigblush:

 

Ok, but it still doesn't really answer my question of how the information is recorded.  I mean, it sounds like it's recorded at point of entry/exit, but how is that info conveyed?  If it's not saved on the rf chip, then there must be some means of transmission of the record from point of scan to point of receipt (presumably a Government of Canada office), but I doubt all countries are willing to share traveller mobility information freely with other countries, especially when you have adversarial relationships like we currently have with, say, China. 

 

Unless Canada has already figured out 8G cellphone technology plus big data handling, and slipped the technology into our passports...?  :blink:

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18 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Ok, but it still doesn't really answer my question of how the information is recorded.  I mean, it sounds like it's recorded at point of entry/exit, but how is that info conveyed?  If it's not saved on the rf chip, then there must be some means of transmission of the record from point of scan to point of receipt (presumably a Government of Canada office), but I doubt all countries are willing to share traveller mobility information freely with other countries, especially when you have adversarial relationships like we currently have with, say, China. 

 

Unless Canada has already figured out 8G cellphone technology plus big data handling, and slipped the technology into our passports...?  :blink:

The information is recorded when the MRZ code(on the bottom of the passport bio page) or RFID is scanned into either a machine or manually by a border patrol agent into a database.

I believe some information is temporary and other is permanent depending a variety of variables and situations (criminal, fake passport, etc..). 

 

The information is uploaded to various databases like Interpol and cross examined. 

 

All countries share information with one another whether friendly or not they simply have to for security reasons. 

 

No need for conspiracies theories friend.. just think of it this way once a passport is scanned you have been catalogued into some database.

Edited by drummer4now
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1 hour ago, drummer4now said:

The information is recorded when the MRZ code(on the bottom of the passport bio page) or RFID is scanned into either a machine or manually by a border patrol agent into a database.

I believe some information is temporary and other is permanent depending a variety of variables and situations (criminal, fake passport, etc..). 

 

The information is uploaded to various databases like Interpol and cross examined. 

 

All countries share information with one another whether friendly or not they simply have to for security reasons. 

 

No need for conspiracies theories friend.. just think of it this way once a passport is scanned you have been catalogued into some database.

My understanding was that databases of internal or external movement through borders that was scanned it is logged in the countries database, but this doesn’t mean that it is automatically uploaded to places like Interpol (country dependant) 

 

plus passports when they get renewed are most likely updated in the home country but this doesn’t feed through/get shared with external agencies countries, as such there will be a level of matching rules in the database but this isn’t 100% accurate so if you renew a passport it’s not automatically tagged.

 

that said the countries in the 5 eyes grouping most likely share information, but if you scan out of the uk, fly to say India and then scan in to do a transfer (if having to change terminals etc), scan out and then say go to Japan scan in for a transfer and then scan out and fly to Canada , when you scan in to Canada it doesn’t show up that you have been to from the UK to India to Japan. 
 

the key to read the data is shared for obvious reasons but the data that is scanned isn’t in some automatic database 

 

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27 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

My understanding was that databases of internal or external movement through borders that was scanned it is logged in the countries database, but this doesn’t mean that it is automatically uploaded to places like Interpol (country dependant) 

 

plus passports when they get renewed are most likely updated in the home country but this doesn’t feed through/get shared with external agencies countries, as such there will be a level of matching rules in the database but this isn’t 100% accurate so if you renew a passport it’s not automatically tagged.

 

that said the countries in the 5 eyes grouping most likely share information, but if you scan out of the uk, fly to say India and then scan in to do a transfer (if having to change terminals etc), scan out and then say go to Japan scan in for a transfer and then scan out and fly to Canada , when you scan in to Canada it doesn’t show up that you have been to from the UK to India to Japan. 
 

the key to read the data is shared for obvious reasons but the data that is scanned isn’t in some automatic database 

 

Well what I know about Interpol is if for example you lose your passport or declare it stolen the passport number gets entered in their database once you declare it. So information could be cross examined real time and be uploaded once scanned; possibly early when a ticket is purchased or visa. 

 

Partially correct on that... I would assume an isolated country like North Korea would not have immediate access to a travellers information if they were in the West etc... 

but there is a automatic database that the NSA, CIA and other have access too.. I guess it depends on the country and agencies involved.  

 

Don't forget airlines are part of alliances like "star alliance" and share information with one another. 

Same with 5 eyes passport agencies they're part of a union that shares info.

 

I am sure there many different ways government agencies could track people if they want to and probably do without you knowing. 

 

I remember when the Iranian plane crashed and Malaysia airlines crashed they were able to find out who was using a fake passport etc..

 

It is going to get more intrusive if CANZUK is established. 

 

Some reading material: https://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/what-they-know-about-you/

https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2019/09/inside-look-all-data-cbp-collects-about-everyone-crossing-us-borders/159946/

 

 

Edited by drummer4now
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18 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

Well what I know about Interpol is if for example you lose your passport or declare it stolen the passport number gets entered in their database once you declare it. So information could be cross examined real time and be uploaded once scanned; possibly early when a ticket is purchased or visa. 

 

Partially correct on that... I would assume an isolated country like North Korea would not have immediate access to a travellers information if they were in the West etc... 

but there is a automatic database that the NSA, CIA and other have access too.. I guess it depends on the country and agencies involved.  

 

Don't forget airlines are part of alliances like "star alliance" and share information with one another. 

Same with 5 eyes passport agencies they're part of a union that shares info.

 

I am sure there many different ways government agencies could track people if they want to and probably do without you knowing. 

 

I remember when the Iranian plane crashed and Malaysia airlines crashed they were able to find out who was using a fake passport etc..

 

It is going to get more intrusive if CANZUK is established. 

 

 

I don’t dispute it’s shared more that it’s not automatic and not live.

 

I might be naive but my understanding is that the sharing is done via request 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557896/biometric-data-sharing-v7.0.pdf

 

with the Interpol lost passport list that’s slightly different but yes that is a live shared document and once you report your password stolen or lost it’s basically dead because of this even if you find it later.

 

in regards to the knowing passports were fake that would likely be due to the reading of the electronic signature that’s captured in the RFID chip

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9 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

I don’t dispute it’s shared more that it’s not automatic and not live.

 

I might be naive but my understanding is that the sharing is done via request 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557896/biometric-data-sharing-v7.0.pdf

 

with the Interpol lost passport list that’s slightly different but yes that is a live shared document and once you report your password stolen or lost it’s basically dead because of this even if you find it later.

 

in regards to the knowing passports were fake that would likely be due to the reading of the electronic signature that’s captured in the RFID chip

Could be but a lot of smart criminals just destroy the chip or remove it completely.. and make sure to never use the smart gates.

 

I believe how they can find out is via the databases and other tracking means. 

 

From doing research at work it actually isn't too hard to make a fake passport, but using it depends on what country it is issued and where it is being used. 

But that is a whole different can of legal worms :frantic:

Edited by drummer4now
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4 hours ago, drummer4now said:

Could be but a lot of smart criminals just destroy the chip or remove it completely.. and make sure to never use the smart gates.

 

I believe how they can find out is via the databases and other tracking means. 

 

From doing research at work it actually isn't too hard to make a fake passport, but using it depends on what country it is issued and where it is being used. 

But that is a whole different can of legal worms :frantic:

Or don't travel out of the country? 

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