gurn Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 9 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: including 6 already full-vaccinated. I'm under the impression that the vaccinne won't completely prevent you from getting covid, just prevent you from getting really sick and dying? Supposedly about 70-90% don't get sick at all, and of those that do, extremely few are ill enough to even have a day in bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 9 minutes ago, gurn said: I'm under the impression that the vaccinne won't completely prevent you from getting covid, just prevent you from getting really sick and dying? Supposedly about 70-90% don't get sick at all, and of those that do, extremely few are ill enough to even have a day in bed. But you're going to have a society believing they are vaccinated (immune), and living a normal life again. Seems to me that prospect is even more dangerous than anything we've experienced to date with Covid. Something that effectively is a placebo does no preventative/medical good at all to the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 12 minutes ago, gurn said: I'm under the impression that the vaccinne won't completely prevent you from getting covid, just prevent you from getting really sick and dying? Supposedly about 70-90% don't get sick at all, and of those that do, extremely few are ill enough to even have a day in bed. from the story, the vaccine provides 91% efficacy. We're going to see some vaccinated people still get the disease. I suspect as time rolls on here we'll see more and more effective vaccines and the number creeps closer to 100% but that might take a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurn Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 13 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: But you're going to have a society believing they are vaccinated (immune), and living a normal life again. Seems to me that prospect is even more dangerous than anything we've experienced to date with Covid. Something that effectively is a placebo does no preventative/medical good at all to the masses. If you are vaccinated are are not going to die from maybe getting covid, and other people are vacinated and aren't goingto die from maybe getting covid, why not return to 'normal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurn Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 15 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: Something that effectively is a placebo does no preventative/medical good at all to the masses. WHAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 3 minutes ago, gurn said: WHAT? Let me put it another way, what is the effective difference between this 'vaccine' and a naturally strong immune system? If Covid won't kill me with either one, what is the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Just now, Jack Fig said: Let me put it another way, what is the effective difference between this 'vaccine' and a naturally strong immune system? If Covid won't kill me with either one, what is the difference? the chance of a vaccine like Astra Zeneca has somewhere between a 1/100,000 chance of giving you a clot, and about a 1/250,000 chance of dying. The other vaccines are less risky. Your chances of getting immunity from catching covid gives you a far higher risk of death or long term injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurn Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 3 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: Let me put it another way, what is the effective difference between this 'vaccine' and a naturally strong immune system? If Covid won't kill me with either one, what is the difference? The difference is the amount of people dying? If about 2% of non vaccinated people die from catching covid and so far as I know, 0% of vaccinated people die from covid, well I can see a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSP* Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: from the story, the vaccine provides 91% efficacy. We're going to see some vaccinated people still get the disease. I suspect as time rolls on here we'll see more and more effective vaccines and the number creeps closer to 100% but that might take a few years. Age is also a factor, it seems the vaccines can sometimes produce less of an immune response in older populations (in the example provided by the poster, a nursing home). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.03.21251066v1 In response to Pfizer vaccine Results While the majority of participants in both groups produced specific IgG antibody titers against SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, titers were significantly lower in elderly participants. Although the increment of antibody levels after the second immunization was higher in elderly participants, the absolute mean titer of this group remained lower than the <60 group. After the second vaccination, 31.3 % of the elderly had no detectable neutralizing antibodies in contrast to the younger group, in which only 2.2% had no detectable neutralizing antibodies. Edited May 10 by GSP* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 31 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: Let me put it another way, what is the effective difference between this 'vaccine' and a naturally strong immune system? If Covid won't kill me with either one, what is the difference? Why don't you contract severe covid variants and let us know how that goes for you and THEN we can start making the comparisons. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Meanwhile in Alberta.... Due to the whistle stop issue, officers lives are being threatened. You have a church leader throwing nazi hand gestures to a willing crowd, and the potential mayor of Calgary is threatening to dox the entire AHS employee registry telling his supporters to "GET EM" and do what they will with that private information This is getting wildly out of control and thanks to the supreme court ruling regarding pipelines we are not allowed to close our borders to travel or trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Why don't you contract severe covid variants and let us know how that goes for you and THEN we can start making the comparisons. Just a thought I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 34 minutes ago, gurn said: The difference is the amount of people dying? If about 2% of non vaccinated people die from catching covid and so far as I know, 0% of vaccinated people die from covid, well I can see a difference. I'm not over 70, nor am I immuno-compromised. What's my number then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 1 minute ago, Jack Fig said: I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. Well, then put your money where your immune system is I'd personally love a detailed account of how a person feels from onset to passing or survival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 2 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. the problem is, you don't know if you do have a "good" immune system against any particular virus, there's no way for you to know that. But lets say you do, by going the herd immunity route you also put other people at risk, and thats not fair to others if you have a vaccine available to you. You could have a low level case that you pass on to other people and not know it, e.g. You're also risking having no protection against the variants. You just don't know Fig how good your personal immune system is, thats just a total guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: I'm not over 70, nor am I immuno-compromised. What's my number then? see Fig 5 - you can see the hospitalization and death rate by age: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html compare that to the vaccine risk, its a easy to see from a risk pov a person should get a vaccine vs herd immunity. Edited May 10 by Jimmy McGill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: see Fig 5 - you can see the death rate by age: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html compare that to the vaccine risk, its a easy to see from a risk pov a person should get a vaccine vs herd immunity. I won't be afraid of a virus with a 2% mortality rate I might never ever catch You can't ask me to risk taking a vaccine with a vastly smaller chance of issue than the virus I claim i'm not afraid of.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I won't be afraid of a virus with a 2% mortality rate I might never ever catch You can't ask me to risk taking a vaccine with a vastly smaller chance of issue than the virus I claim i'm not afraid of.... I know, Hip. Just providing the info anyway, he was asking for real numbers and there they are. I would hope people would care about potentially passing the virus on to other people, given the vaccines are free, widely available now and its about the least one can do to help other people. Its not asking much. Even if you're not afraid of the mortality numbers, the hospitalization time is nasty. I wish they would actually show that on tv so people understand what 1000s of young people are going thorough. Edited May 10 by Jimmy McGill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 25 minutes ago, Jack Fig said: I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. You can be confident in your own immune system all you want, that doesn't change the risk of spreading it to others with weaker immune systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I know, Hip. Just providing the info anyway, he was asking for real numbers and there they are. I would hope people would care about potentially passing the virus on to other people, given the vaccines are free, widely available now and its about the least one can do to help other people. Its not asking much. Even if you're not afraid of the mortality numbers, the hospitalization time is nasty. I wish they would actually show that on tv so people understand what 1000s of young people are going thorough. Some people just need to re-visit their old economics textbooks and understand the concepts of marginal benefit and risk-reward ratios. The Prisoner Dilemma paradox is also a good place to start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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