Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Coronavirus outbreak


CBH1926

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

 

 

I could see it being an issue if it required the US to be 75% fully vaccinated (they have a higher vaccine hesitancy rate and are more likely to have stubborn covidiots who insist on maintaining their "free dumbs"), but I think Canadians are generally a more compliant bunch, and so reaching that threshold shouldn't be much of an issue.

I think a vaccine passport is a reasonable requirement for entry here.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I think a vaccine passport is a reasonable requirement for entry here.

Perhaps.  One of the matters governments will need to sort out is the authenticity aspect (and verifiability of the supposed vaccination that the v.p. would suggest - because otherwise, we'd be operating solely on trust and within an honour system that can and will be easily exploited).  The other side of the equation is to do with "function creep" - ie. the potential effect on our civil liberties, and the need to have a serious discussion and meaningful debate on this topic - which this article covers in some detail: https://theconversation.com/why-we-need-to-seriously-reconsider-covid-19-vaccination-passports-159405

 

Spoiler
Quote

Why we need to seriously reconsider COVID-19 vaccination passports

May 19, 2021 11.12am EDT

 

In 2003, Canada’s immigration and citizenship minister, Denis Coderre, declared that “the biometrics train has left the station,” making reference to new technologies like facial recognition and retina scans.

 

Coderre’s statement demonstrated the perceived inevitability, along with the innocent embrace, of new biometric technologies.

Coderre gestures while speaking.
 
Denis Coderre at a news conference in Ottawa in 2002. (CP PHOTO/Fred Chartrand)

It’s eerily similar to contemporary statements about vaccine passports. And, much like the rollout of biometrics, the solutions promised by these technologies outweigh the public’s appetite for debate. So what’s changed in the past 20 years, and why should we care?

 

Proposed vaccine passports are moving forward with little scrutiny due to their promise to solve many travel-related challenges during and after the COVID-19 pandemic. The emergence of biometrics and surveillance in post-9/11 border security tells a similar story.

 

Currently, vaccine passports are presented as a relatively simple technological solution to our current travel woes. However, like biometrics, vaccine passports will likely become permanent parts of our daily lives. That means meaningful public debate and discussion about their merits and problems is essential.

‘Function creep’

There is growing scholarly trepidation with “function creep” — the way technologies are gradually used for much more than their originally intended purposes.

 

These concerns dovetail with related fears about the rapid erosion of privacy. They should not be ignored, nor should they be considered trade-offs for political promises of safer and more efficient travel. Regardless of how effective vaccine passports may be, concerns about their use demand public conversation.

 

Intensified security at borders and in airports was believed to be a necessary evil of the post-9/11 world. Biometrics and surveillance provided a “sorting” function that improved travellers’ experiences. They promised to streamline interactions with reinforced border security. This positive dividend overlooked the wider social sorting functions of these technologies.

 

Largely ignored was the way travellers and populations were categorized along lines of race, gender and class. Similarly, in the face of nationwide lockdowns, the promise of a return to safe and efficient travel quiets criticism.

Personal privacy

Such technologies also challenge how we negotiate personal privacy. They contribute to enhanced law enforcement powers, and are increasingly presented as acceptable trade-offs for rediscovered mobility.

 

The pandemic, together with related government responses, have exposed the inequities in our society.

 

As a result, we should be troubled by the open embrace of vaccine passports. The lessons of the past two decades of surveillance in society have shown us that identification technologies such as biometrics have consequences that go well beyond their intended use.

 

Contemporary vaccine passports will bear little resemblance to the handwritten vaccination cards of the past. Instead, they will likely reside on our smartphones.

A person holds a phone that says COVID-19 Digital Immune Passport.
 
Vaccine passports will probably live on our smartphones. Wuestenigel/FlickrCC BY-SA

Responsibility rests with us

That means the responsibility for them rests squarely with the citizen. Decidedly different than the responses to security challenges after 9/11, vaccine passports are not products of large transnational corporations.

 

Instead, regular citizens with programming skills who engage in “participatory democracy” on GitHub, an internet platform that hosts software development through volunteer programming, are proposing solutions. In the months following the first media mentions of vaccine passports, more than 40 related projects were launched on GitHub.

 

The majority of them are apps that use a smartphone’s algorithms to collect sensitive data such as name, date of birth, vaccine brand, dosage and mailing addresses. As one volunteer programmer writes: “I decided to stop enduring the effects of the pandemic and start to act.”

 

A trend is emerging: programming-savvy citizens who code for corporations by day now do so for public safety by night. The political significance of this cannot be understated.

 

The next generation of entrepreneurs are technologically savvy. These citizen-programmers imagine a future where safety, mobility, freedom and the dream of the return to pre-pandemic normalcy may intersect. But this intersection will be on the smartphone.

Post 9/11 consequences

The consequences of biometrics and surveillance rolled out in response to the security challenges of the post-9/11 world had widespread consequences. Similarly, leveraging smartphones as the vehicle for vaccine passports will be fraught with rights and civil liberties violations.

A police officer's hand rests on his gun as politicians speak in the background. A police officer stands by as federal government officials answer questions during a news conference on airport security a month after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001. (CP PHOTO/Aaron Harris)

Research over the past two decades into surveillance is clear — it threatens individual freedoms and amplifies social differences. Social sorting technologies like biometrics not only verify that “you are who you say you are,” they also assess risk and categorize each of us in the process.

 

Proposed to solve problems related to enhancing secure and efficient travel, the consequences of vaccine passports are much broader. Surveillance and biometrics assign worth and opportunity. They also assign differential access to goods, services and places.

 

Vaccine passports provide the opportunity to add health data to our mobile personal data devices. While the promise of improved pandemic travel will likely be kept, there will also be a series of policy challenges, privacy concerns and troubling consequences of social sorting.

Real debate is needed

The absence of meaningful debate about turning to consumer technology as a vehicle for vaccine passports is serious. In the early 2000s, questioning the reliance on biometrics and surveillance was often regarded as suspicious, speculative and even anti-modern.

 

Today, public criticism and deliberation about vaccine passports is also overlooked and even discredited. Concerns over vaccine passports are sometimes conflated with anti-mask and anti-vaccination sentiments.

 

Safe and efficient travel is the coveted prize. However, failure to have fulsome public conversations about the long-term societal impact of vaccine passports will leave our privacy and civil liberties exposed.

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I think a vaccine passport is a reasonable requirement for entry here.

Do you think we should have vaccine passports to go to other countries then? Or other provinces?

 

I think it was Horgan (maybe another premier though) who supported vaccine passports but only for foreigners and didn't feel Canadians should get them.  I was like "little bit of a double standard there bud"

 

PS: I do somewhat support the idea of vaccine passports being someone who will be vaccinated myself.  But I am not giving my kids the shot any time soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Do you think we should have vaccine passports to go to other countries then? Or other provinces?

 

I think it was Horgan (maybe another premier though) who supported vaccine passports but only for foreigners and didn't feel Canadians should get them.  I was like "little bit of a double standard there bud"

 

PS: I do somewhat support the idea of vaccine passports being someone who will be vaccinated myself.  But I am not giving my kids the shot any time soon.

Absolutely

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Do you think we should have vaccine passports to go to other countries then? Or other provinces?

 

I think it was Horgan (maybe another premier though) who supported vaccine passports but only for foreigners and didn't feel Canadians should get them.  I was like "little bit of a double standard there bud"

 

PS: I do somewhat support the idea of vaccine passports being someone who will be vaccinated myself.  But I am not giving my kids the shot any time soon.

No, I wouldn't either, I'd go to a facility that's providing them.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Do you think we should have vaccine passports to go to other countries then? Or other provinces?

 

I think it was Horgan (maybe another premier though) who supported vaccine passports but only for foreigners and didn't feel Canadians should get them.  I was like "little bit of a double standard there bud"

 

PS: I do somewhat support the idea of vaccine passports being someone who will be vaccinated myself.  But I am not giving my kids the shot any time soon.

Other countries for sure, and foreign people coming here.  Not too sure about interprovincial travel though.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Do you think we should have vaccine passports to go to other countries then? Or other provinces?

 

I think it was Horgan (maybe another premier though) who supported vaccine passports but only for foreigners and didn't feel Canadians should get them.  I was like "little bit of a double standard there bud"

 

PS: I do somewhat support the idea of vaccine passports being someone who will be vaccinated myself.  But I am not giving my kids the shot any time soon.

So how do we get schools back to normal if kids don't get vaccinated?  Grade 6 immunizations are going on in my school today, what's the difference?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stawns said:

So how do we get schools back to normal if kids don't get vaccinated?  Grade 6 immunizations are going on in my school today, what's the difference?

I think they are planning on getting the kids vaccinated in the summer prior to returning to school.  Need to get the adults vaccinated first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, BPA said:

I think they are planning on getting the kids vaccinated in the summer prior to returning to school.  Need to get the adults vaccinated first.

The poster said no way he's getting his kid vaccinated, so if that's a prevailing sentiment, how do we get schools running normally?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stawns said:

The poster said no way he's getting his kid vaccinated, so if that's a prevailing sentiment, how do we get schools running normally?

hopefully they continue with mass testing and his kid will get rooted out when he/she gets sick. Its irresponsible but its something we have to live with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, stawns said:

So how do we get schools back to normal if kids don't get vaccinated?  Grade 6 immunizations are going on in my school today, what's the difference?

My kids 3 and 1. Going to wait for more info well before I would consider vaccinating them when the time comes.

 

And I said "any time soon" not "never" so way to twist my words. 

Edited by Russ
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Russ said:

My kids 3 and 1. Going to wait for more info well before I would consider vaccinating them when the time comes.

 

And I said "any time soon" not "never" so way to twist my words. 

 

 

It is looking like approval for children as young as around 4 will get approval late this year or early next year.  By then, participants in the phased trials last year would have been fully vaccinated for a full year and many of the early 12 to 15 year old children will have been fully vaccinated.  That should provide a wealth of data when it comes to approving vaccinations for younger children.  Hardly something a rushed job, experimental vaccine would look like.

 

EDIT:  just providing some info.  Not being critical of your position.  Vaccines for your children probably won't be available until next year.

 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/20/998533237/fauci-says-he-expects-vaccines-for-younger-children-by-end-of-year-or-early-2022

Fauci Says He Expects Vaccines For Younger Children By End Of Year Or Early 2022

Edited by thedestroyerofworlds
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Russ said:

My kids 3 and 1. Going to wait for more info well before I would consider vaccinating them when the time comes.

 

And I said "any time soon" not "never" so way to twist my words. 

that's fair

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mj2345 said:

What’s going on in Manitoba? They recorded 603 new cases today, I believe it’s their highest daily count since the pandemic started.

Maybe the Albertans mad about their lockdown are going there, now that they aren't suppose to come here. ;)

Edited by BCNeil
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mj2345 said:

What’s going on in Manitoba? They recorded 603 new cases today, I believe it’s their highest daily count since the pandemic started.

Probably thought, "Things are ok now"

Rather than "It's getting better, but still need to be careful".

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, johngould21 said:

On my walk yesterday, I came across a fellow who I've casually spoken to often, having seen him on the trails many times over the past few years. He had just arrived back in Burnaby after taking a trip to Fort St John to visit his daughter and son in law. All I heard was how much a sham the John and Bonny show is over the travel restrictions. He's been vaccinated, he says, but I somehow don't know if he was. Passport, hell no! As I walked away, I said to my friend, you and I have stayed home for the most part, haven't visited our grandkids, or had them over to our place since this began. We have visited on our deck, and in our home with the windows and doors open, and stayed apart while doing so, and wear masks. I was so pi*&ed with this guys entitlement. This is what we're up against folks, and this is why the border should never be open until we're at 75% or better, and some sort of proof of vaccination is provided at our border. 

TOTALLY with you on this. I  have not seen my elderly mother in almost 2 years and she is, sadly, slowly failing. She lives in another health authority at the coast.

 

I have followed every single bloody protocol in order to do my part....and in order to protect others from ME.

And then, people I know well have flouted the PHOs.....done EXACTLY as they've pleased, thumbing their noses at requests from government....jumping the queues for vaccinations...... had company come from Alberta....... have rolled their eyes at me when I refuse an invitation to a birthday party being held indoors..

I am so &^@#ing sick of self-entitled assholes who seem to think that they have no responsibilities in this. Either to themselves or to others...and not even strangers, but members of their family who may not be so healthy or without comorbidities.

 

I fully support a vaccine passport....100%....but it needs to be full proof and unable to to faked...OMG...now we're back to something in the vaccine that they could scan us for that will say if we've been vaccinated or not...cue the conspiracy theories! :o:lol::ph34r:

 

Keep our borders closed until we are at LEAST 75% vaccinated as is the country of origin from which visitors would enter. AND they must show proof of vaccination... BOTH doeses.

We're ALL tired of this pandemic.....but it is absolutely disheartening to watch people refusing to do their part so we can all get out of this as quickly and safely as possible. If nothing else, it truly has been a study in human nature, this past 14 months....People I would never have thought would (or could) act so selfishly have proven that they can....and others have gone way over the top to ensure that they and those they love remain safe and COVID-free.

  • Cheers 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
×
  • Create New...