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3 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm not saying that their wet markets are good or that China doesn't shoulder some responsibility, but it's pretty clear this is a political ploy being used to make it a deliberate, state sponsored move.  As someone who lived through the Cold war, it's a pretty familiar ploy used by both the US and Soviets during that time.

 

I'm not against investigating how it started and how it spread, I just don't but the politization of it as genuine

While I suspect that I'm more open to the idea that the virus originated in a lab than you are, I agree with your note of caution.

 

There may be political spin on this issue from both sides.  Which would really be unfortunate as what we need is an impartial study and presentation of the facts.  Hopefully leading to a firm conclusion one way or another.

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25 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

While I suspect that I'm more open to the idea that the virus originated in a lab than you are, I agree with your note of caution.

 

There may be political spin on this issue from both sides.  Which would really be unfortunate as what we need is an impartial study and presentation of the facts.  Hopefully leading to a firm conclusion one way or another.

again, there should be an investigation, but it should be done by the WHO, not by a rival country

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6 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Up til now I've been thinking about the origin of covid-19 in terms of two scenarios.  

 

One, it was a natural occurring virus that directly infected a human or was passed to a human through another animal.

 

Two, it was a man-made, genetically modified version of a virus that escaped from the Wuhan lab.

 

But there is a third option.  Which many people may have realized but I didn't.  Namely, that covid-19 is a natural occurring virus that was present in bats that were brought to the Wuhan lab and which infected lab workers.   That is, there was no genetic manipulation involved.  It was a natural occurring virus as many argue.  But the transferrence just happened to occur in a lab, not out in nature.  So it did emanate, in a sense, from the lab, as others argue.

As I have a friend who has designed such labs (not that particular one but similar level) it’s highly unlikely to have leaked out of the lab, and if it did it will most likely be a direct result of human failures to following stringent processes. 
 

im of the view that it’s not a man made virus either as I think that probably would have been proven and identified by now. 
 

im of the view that it probably was already circulating in China prior to it being picked up in wuhan.

 

As others has mentioned their is a lot of politics around this and also the vaccines so I would always want to dig into things and not take them at a politicians face value 

 

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins

 

Researchers from Cambridge, UK, and Germany have reconstructed the early 'evolutionary paths' of SARS-CoV-2 in humans – as infection spread from Wuhan out to Europe and North America – using genetic network techniques.'

By analysing the first 160 complete virus genomes to be sequenced from human patients, the scientists have mapped some of the original spread of the new coronavirus through its mutations, which creates different viral lineages.

“There are too many rapid mutations to neatly trace a SARS-CoV-2 family tree. We used a mathematical network algorithm to visualise all the plausible trees simultaneously,” said geneticist Dr Peter Forster, lead author from the University of Cambridge.  

“These techniques are mostly known for mapping the movements of prehistoric human populations through DNA. We think this is one of the first times they have been used to trace the infection routes of a coronavirus like COVID-19.” 

The team used data from virus genomes sampled from across the world between 24 December 2019 and 4 March 2020. The research revealed three distinct 'variants' of SARS-CoV-2, consisting of clusters of closely related lineages, which they label ‘A’, ‘B’ and ‘C’.

Forster and colleagues found that the closest type of SARS-CoV-2 to the one discovered in bats – type ‘A’, the “original human virus genome” – was present in Wuhan, but surprisingly was not the city’s predominant virus type.

Versions of ‘A’ were seen in Chinese individuals, and Americans reported to have lived in Wuhan, and mutated versions of ‘A’ were found in patients from the USA and Australia.

Wuhan’s major virus type, ‘B’, was prevalent in patients from across East Asia. However, the variant didn’t travel much beyond the region without further mutations – implying a 'founder event' in Wuhan, or 'resistance' against this type of coronavirus outside East Asia, say researchers.

The ‘C’ variant is the major European type, found in early patients from France, Italy, Sweden and England. It is absent from the study’s Chinese mainland sample, but seen in Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea.

The new analysis also suggests that one of the earliest introductions of the virus into Italy came via the first documented German infection on 27 January, and that another early Italian infection route was related to a 'Singapore cluster'.

Importantly, the researchers say that their genetic networking techniques accurately traced established infection routes: the mutations and viral lineages joined the dots between known cases.

As such, the scientists argue that these 'phylogenetic' methods could be applied to the very latest coronavirus genome sequencing to help predict future global hot spots of disease transmission and surge.

“Phylogenetic network analysis has the potential to help identify undocumented COVID-19 infection sources, which can then be quarantined to contain further spread of the disease worldwide,” said Forster, a fellow of the McDonald Institute of Archaeological Research at Cambridge, as well as the University’s Institute of Continuing Education.

The findings are published today in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). The software used in the study, as well as classifications for over 1,000 coronavirus genomes and counting, is available free at www.fluxus-technology.com.   

Variant ‘A’, most closely related to the virus found in both bats and pangolins, is described as 'the root of the outbreak' by researchers. Type ‘B’ is derived from ‘A’, separated by two mutations, then ‘C’ is in turn a “daughter” of ‘B’.

Researchers say the localisation of the ‘B’ variant to East Asia could result from a 'founder effect': a genetic bottleneck that occurs when, in the case of a virus, a new type is established from a small, isolated group of infections.

Forster argues that there is another explanation worth considering. “The Wuhan B-type virus could be immunologically or environmentally adapted to a large section of the East Asian population. It may need to mutate to overcome resistance outside East Asia. We seem to see a slower mutation rate in East Asia than elsewhere, in this initial phase.”

He added: “The viral network we have detailed is a snapshot of the early stages of an epidemic, before the evolutionary paths of COVID-19 become obscured by vast numbers of mutations. It’s like catching an incipient supernova in the act.”

Since today’s PNAS study was conducted, the research team has extended its analysis to 1,001 viral genomes. While yet to be peer-reviewed, Forster says the latest work suggests that the first infection and spread among humans of SARS-CoV-2 occurred between mid-September and early December. 

The phylogenetic network methods used by researchers – allowing the visualisation of hundreds of evolutionary trees simultaneously in one simple graph – were pioneered in New Zealand in 1979, then developed by German mathematicians in the 1990s.

These techniques came to the attention of archaeologist Professor Colin Renfrew, a co-author of the new PNAS study, in 1998. Renfrew went on to establish one of the first archaeogenetics research groups in the world at the University of Cambridge.  

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16 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm surprised at how many 12 year olds are getting their shots.  Over half my class of eligible age have already got their first jab

crazy, 12 year olds in Vernon already have their 1st dose yet me in my 30s is still waiting for dose 1, and I live not even an hour away. I am actually happy to hear that as they are clustered indoors with older adults so doesn't bother me they got to jump the line but it does surprise me as kids have had mild to no symptoms for the most part compared to adults who have gotten severely ill or died.

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13 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Not quiet at all.  Many scientists have spoken on this and they are not convinced since there is no fact that suggest it is a lab leak. You can't prove a negative event so people keep on speculating. There is still no facts at all.

There seems to be enough uncertainty that folks like Anthony Fauci are considering it.

 

Excerpt from a BBC article titled "Covid origin: Why the Wuhan lab-leak theory is being taken seriously"

 

"That possibility certainly exists, and I am totally in favour of a full investigation of whether that could have happened," Anthony Fauci, President Biden's chief medical adviser, told the US senate committee on 11 May.

13 hours ago, Jaimito said:

They rehashed bunch of speculations from last year that were all debunked, like how furin cleavage site in the spike protein is man made. Turns out it is present in wild animal coronaviruses.  RATG13 was sequenced year ago, but it so different from SARS-CoV-2 that it isn't the backbone. Their common ancestor is likely decades ago.

This new interest in Wuhan isn't centered around an intentional leak, but more so an accidental one that the CCP covered up. There is proof that the scientists at the WIV were working on a bat coronavirus at the time. 

13 hours ago, Jaimito said:

The allegedly sick lab workers were tested, and were negative for Covid and had no antibodies. They probably ate some bad Wuhan hot noodles and got sick. But you can just take a note left by Trump admin before he left office and call that intelligence a fact.

Allegedly sick? Please.

 

US intelligence found that three researchers at a lab in Wuhan, China, became sick with COVID-19 symptoms in November 2019 and sought hospital care, The Wall Street Journal reported Sunday.

https://www.businessinsider.com/3-wuhan-lab-workers-hospitalized-fall-2019-coronavirus-covid-origin-2021-5

 

Please do explain how three lab workers were tested for Covid in November 2019, when this sickness at the time was thought to have been pneumonia, and hadn't been named yet.

13 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Here is the interview with some of the members who went on the WHO visit. They said it wasn't a lab audit, which is what many wanted. You can dismiss WHO all you want. The China will not let US go in there for that, no less than US CDC will let any Chinese officials go in their Atlanta P4 lab.  

So, fair enough, let's say that the WHO is on the level.

 

Also from the same Business Insider article:

 

WHO, however, also said it did not have access to all the necessary information. That has prompted some experts to be wary of the findings and demand more investigations into the virus' origin, including the possibility that it leaked from the Wuhan lab, which studies coronaviruses.

13 hours ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These tweets are very interesting, but as they're tweets from individuals, they're really nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Had these been from a scientific body, they'd have a lot more credibility. Peter Daszak is the president of Eco Health Alliance, which has been directly involved in the gain of function experiments in Wuhan, through funding made available by the National Institute for Health (NIH). His word is compromised to say the least, and the WHO choosing him as one of the scientists to visit Wuhan to search out the origins of Covid is suspect.

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7 hours ago, stawns said:

again, there should be an investigation, but it should be done by the WHO, not by a rival country

In theory, the WHO (and its legislative branch the WHA) should be a non-political entity.  

 

However, I guarantee you the ccp has already exercised (and continues to exercise) soft power on its composition and leadership elections over the last few terms and in a way it can no longer be considered an impartial political body.  The fact that Taiwan can't find its way back in even as an observer - despite the numerous requests of western democratic governments - speaks volumes of the influence the ccp carries there.  Plus don't forget that they had a unique position for a few months while the Tantrumer-in-Chief down south threatened to pull US funding out of WHO, potentially putting the ccp into the driver's seat as possible top contributor.  Thank goodness Biden reversed that as one of the first things in office.

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Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

In theory, the WHO (and its legislative branch the WHA) should be a non-political entity.  

 

However, I guarantee you the ccp has already exercised (and continues to exercise) soft power on its composition and leadership elections over the last few terms and in a way it can no longer be considered an impartial political body.  The fact that Taiwan can't find its way back in even as an observer - despite the numerous requests of western democratic governments - speaks volumes of the influence the ccp carries there.  Plus don't forget that they had a unique position for a few months while the Tantrumer-in-Chief down south threatened to pull US funding out of WHO, potentially putting the ccp into the driver's seat as possible top contributor.  Thank goodness Biden reversed that as one of the first things in office.

I think the issue is that the US wants to be the only country in the world allowed to flex their muscle.  China is now the big kid on the block and the US doesn't like it

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21 hours ago, Jaimito said:

Yes. Daily rates can flux a bit. The 7 day ave is trending in the right direction though. Don't go visit AB or MB please. 

MB cases trending in the wrong direction today, 497 new cases

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1 minute ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

 

 

 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-concert-tickets-18-vaccinated-1000/story?id=77939060

These Florida concert tickets are $18 if you're vaccinated, $1,000 if you're not

The promoter behind the discount hopes it encourages people to get their shot.

Like getting really sick, having long term side effects, or dying isn't enough of a reason to get vaccinated.  Isn't one of the states offering lottery tickets or some such thing for getting vaccinated?  

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45 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Like getting really sick, having long term side effects, or dying isn't enough of a reason to get vaccinated.  Isn't one of the states offering lottery tickets or some such thing for getting vaccinated?  

She was apparently on her way to buy a used car when she found out that she won.  

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/13/996445109/ohio-raises-the-stakes-to-boost-vaccinations-offers-5-1-million-drawings

Ohio Woman Wins A Million Dollars For Being Vaccinated

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7 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

It seems to be that some are slipping through the cracks....my son, too.  And he's had respiratory issues his entire life (spent time in an oxygen tent as a newborn).  Had pneumonia twice RIGHT before COVID hit.  His Dad/my ex is severely asthmatic and some of that's been passed along.

 

He finally gets his on Sunday....but I can't make sense of some of the people getting booked before that.  I'm trying to be patient...but I'm anxious over it all.  He does NOT leave his house...he orders groceries in, works from home, etc.  He's done everything they've asked of him yet he's at the end of the line.  Maybe we have to start looking at all the Alberta plates and make sure the places where clusters are happening do more to shut out "visitors".   Whistler, Kelowna.  I understand making those places a priority to stop the spread...but use an all out attack and don't dabble.

 

Hang in there!

 

image.png

Is Colbumians a typo or is that what they call us back east? 

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22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Like getting really sick, having long term side effects, or dying isn't enough of a reason to get vaccinated.  Isn't one of the states offering lottery tickets or some such thing for getting vaccinated?  

 

9 minutes ago, gurn said:

A few iirc 

New York

Ohio?

California

 

perhaps others.

 

Or you could be like HK and have a postage-stamp-sized apartment to your name for getting your vaccination shots:

Spoiler
Quote

HK$10.8m flat prize to boost flagging vaccine rate

2021-05-28 HKT 17:27
The HK$10.8 million one-bedroom flat at the Grand Central development is being offered as the top prize in a lucky draw.
  •  
    The HK$10.8 million one-bedroom flat at the Grand Central development is being offered as the top prize in a lucky draw.
    Richard Pyne reports
    Local property developers are putting up a flat worth nearly HK$11 million as the top prize in a lucky draw aimed at boosting the city’s dismal vaccination rate.

    The prize, a HK$10.8 million one-bedroom flat at the Sino Group’s Grand Central development in Kwun Tong, is being offered up by the Ng Teng Fong Charitable Foundation and Chinese Estates Holdings.

    The groups announced on Friday that permanent ID card holders who have had both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine in Hong Kong can enter the lottery.

    Besides the 449-square-foot flat, the foundation is also donating as prizes 20 pre-paid or credit cards loaded with a value of HK$100,000.

    Anyone holding a Hong Kong ID card will be eligible, regardless of whether they are a permanent resident.

    Registration details will be released later, but applications will need to be submitted on or before September 1.

    “We hope the city’s total vaccination rate can be increased. Vaccination is an important step in our fight against the pandemic, and to protect ourselves, our loved ones, our friends and colleagues,” said the director of the Ng Teng Fong Charitable Foundation, Daryl Ng.

    Hong Kong has so far administered 2.25 million Covid-19 vaccine doses since the inoculation drive started in February, but just over 12 percent of the population has been fully vaccinated.

    Medical experts say a vaccination rate of around 70 percent is needed to achieve herd immunity.

 

 

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1593153-20210528.htm

 

This, because vaccine hesitancy driven by a lack of trust in the government, as well as concerns about the vaccines themselves, which are sourced through China (which doesn't have a great track record of consumables being fit for consumption).  Their only two approved vaccines at the moment are BioNTech, sourced through Fosun Pharma (likely a ccp construct), and Sinovac (which is definitely a ccp construct).  Pick your poison.  

 

They had a shot at AstraZeneca, but that order got postponed due to politics (can't have the British re-assert themselves, oh no no no) and health concerns (clotting, amongst others).

 

Spoiler
Quote

Hong Kong government to delay imports of AstraZeneca vaccine amid safety concerns

By Reuters Staff

 

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Hong Kong said on Friday it will delay shipments of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine this year amid mounting concerns over possible links between the shot and very rare cases of blood clots.

 

The Chinese-ruled city had ordered 7.5 million doses from the British-Swedish company, which were scheduled to arrive in the second half of 2021.

 

Health Secretary Sophia Chan said the global financial centre had a sufficient supply of vaccines, with a total of 15 million doses of Germany’s BioNTech and China’s Sinovac - the only two vaccines available in the city.

 

“Even if we have signed a pre-purchase agreement with AstraZeneca, we believe that AstraZeneca vaccines will not need to be supplied to Hong Kong this year, so as not to cause a waste when the vaccine is still in short supply globally,” Chan said.

 

The government was considering buying a new type of vaccine that may offer better protection, she added.

 

More than 700,000 COVID-19 vaccine doses have been administered to the city’s 7.5 million population so far, a figure Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam said was unsatisfactory.

 

The sluggish take-up comes amid dwindling confidence in the Sinovac vaccine and fears of adverse reactions, while BioNTech vaccines were temporarily halted due to packaging defects.

 

Earlier on Friday, Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said his country doubled its order of the Pfizer Inc COVID-19 vaccine. Until late Thursday, Australia based its vaccination programme largely on AstraZeneca.

 

The Philippines and South Korea have suspended the use of AstraZeneca shots for people under age 60.

 

Italy on Wednesday joined France, the Netherlands, Germany and others in recommending a minimum age for recipients of AstraZeneca’s shot, and Britain said people under 30 should get an alternative.

 

Indonesian Health Minister Budi Gunadi Sadikin said on Thursday the country was in talks with China on getting as many as 100 million COVID-19 vaccine doses to plug a gap in deliveries caused by delays in the arrival of AstraZeneca shots.

 

European and British regulators said on Wednesday they had found possible links between AstraZeneca’s vaccine and very rare cases of blood clots, but reaffirmed the vaccine’s importance in protecting people against COVID-19.

Hong Kong has registered more than 11,500 coronavirus cases, with 205 deaths.

Reporting By Twinnie Siu and Donny Kwok; Writing by Anne Marie Roantree; Editing by Christian Schmollinger and Kim Coghill

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong-idUSKBN2BW0C4

 

Having said all that, a 450 sq. ft. apartment is smaller than the one-bedroom apartment I rented (by about the size of my kitchen).  Probably adequate space for a westerner living alone, but knowing the housing situation in HK, it's more likely going to end up as a unit where 5 people will have to share the space.  I suppose on the bright side, it's only about $2million CAD that's involved here.

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Just now, Mj2345 said:

If the NY Knicks advance to the second round they’ve announced that tickets will only be available to fully vaccinated fans, they just played 2 games at MSG in front of pretty much full capacity, I guess non vaccinated took a COVID test before being allowed a seat

 

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