4petesake Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: We'll have to agree to disagree then, because while caution can be the result of fear, fear is not the primary/sole driving factor of caution, ie. not all caution is the result of fear. Caution can arise from experience, from understanding the risks (the consequences of which needn't necessarily draw fear). Caution is primarily based on risk assessment. I am not the least bit afraid of catching the flu but think that the risk of catching it makes taking precautions a good idea. I would agree that the more fearful of something that you are the more precautions you are likely to take. I don’t wear a mask or social distance or get vaccinated out of fear. I do these things out of respect for the science and risk assessment to myself, friends, family and all others that I encounter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 When are the borders opening I am ready for Hawaii? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Admit though. When we were younger wasn’t it awesome to ride without a helmet and feel the wind go through your hair? For me it was on a horse, though. Galloped our horse to the end of the driveway and he decided enough of that and bucked me off! My cousin shows up with a little 50cc scooter and I'm thinking this is a big upgrade on the horse. Nope, end of the driveway and my cousin flops the machine on its side and I get road rash. From that day I rode my 5 speed bike until I got my drivers license. All three of those options had the wind blowing thru my hair and I admit it was nice. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Fear? Fear is the path to the dark side … fear leads to anger … anger leads to hate … hate leads to suffering. We don't fear the disease as much as we fear the ignorant players that can screw up getting back to normality. That is what makes me angry, and if the anti vaxxers/ conspiracy nuts don't do what's right it will make me hate them, because then we will suffer more. Thanks Yoda. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: When are the borders opening I am ready for Hawaii? We are too, but not until the borders open, and they lift the $2000.00 hotel stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, johngould21 said: We are too, but not until the borders open, and they lift the $2000.00 hotel stay. There's a $2,000 hotel stay? Crap was thinking November I'd go. Edited July 9, 2021 by Chris12345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: There's a $2,000 hotel stay? Crap was thinking November I'd go. Three days in a government selected hotel, at $2k per person. Then isolate at home after the hotel stay. At least I think that’s still in effect. We’re booked for September. Edited July 9, 2021 by johngould21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 minute ago, johngould21 said: Three days in a government selected hotel, at $2k per person. Then isolate at home after the hotel stay. At least I think that’s still in effect. We’re booked for September. Oh sweet so you are pretty comfortable hoping the rules change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 As of July 5, fully vaccinated Canadian citizens and permanent residents can cross the U.S.-Canada border and return to Canada without having to quarantine. However, this does not apply to fully vaccinated Americans 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: As of July 5, fully vaccinated Canadian citizens and permanent residents can cross the U.S.-Canada border and return to Canada without having to quarantine. However, this does not apply to fully vaccinated Americans Yea man but can they go to Hawaii? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: As of July 5, fully vaccinated Canadian citizens and permanent residents can cross the U.S.-Canada border and return to Canada without having to quarantine. However, this does not apply to fully vaccinated Americans Thanks for that, I knew it was updated. So no $2k price tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNeil Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: Yea man but can they go to Hawaii? Why not? Drive to Seattle and fly from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Just now, BCNeil said: Why not? Drive to Seattle and fly from there. I don't know? That's why I am asking. Is Hawaii accepting foreign travelers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgom Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said: Depends if the Chinese lab designed it that way It wasn't designed but it almost certainly leaked from a lab. We should really shut down this kind of research around the world. When you have the guy in charge of the "investigation" talking about gain of function research on corona viruses from south Chinese bats in a lab in the city of the initial outbreak in an interview before the pandemic, then contradicting his own organization by implying the virus came from frozen food, you know there's not going to be much facts around this situation. Edited July 9, 2021 by Kurgom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jaimito Posted July 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Kurgom said: It wasn't designed but it almost certainly leaked from a lab. We should really shut down this kind of research around the world. When you have the guy in charge of the "investigation" talking about gain of function research on corona viruses from south Chinese bats in a lab in the city of the initial outbreak in an interview before the pandemic, then contradicting his own organization by implying the virus came from frozen food, you know there's not going to be much facts around this situation. No evidence it accidentally leaked from a lab. No one had a backbone close enough to SARS-CoV-2. It's a new virus to science. Scientists have been publishing newly discovered coronaviruses for years prior to the pandemic, and they want to do it because it gave them recognition and helps increase the knowledge. People do gain of function research all the time, that's nothing new or unique to China. Ignorance won't save you. HIV, Ebola, Nipha, pandemic influenzas, coronaviruses (SARS, MERS, COVID-19) all occur naturally, not by gain of function research. People once thought HIV or SARS was made in the lab too. Ignorance breeds conspiracy theories. It won't protect you from future outbreaks occurring. The more scientists sample the bat population for viruses, the more Sars related viruses are found. Another 7 new to science just got published this year out of a few hundred bats in a botanical reserve. There is tremendous diversity and we only aware of tiny fraction of it. The bats that carry these viruses can be found from Thailand all the way to Japan. Future spillovers are inevitable (Sars 2002, MERS 2012 and still spillover from camels occasionally). Research in anti viral drugs, vaccines are the way to go. Political pressure to stop wildlife trade and surveillance is another. Frozen food theory is based on the Beijing local outbreaks linked to a sample of frozen food, which not that likely the main route and could be a smoke screen from Chinese government. While it is less likely, it is still not a less likely as the lab leak. Wildlife trade is the most likely the culprit based current evidence and precedence from knows coronavirus diseases. Coronavirus disease also happen in animals, like swine acute diarrhea syndrome (SADS) and Porcine epidemic diarrhea virus (PEDV). Spread of virus initially in Wuhan is on the side of river same as the Huanan market, not where the WIV lab is across the river. As epidemic grew, it spreads towards the lab, not away. Two variants were present already in Dec 2019. B variant in Huanan market, and A variant in other markets. It was circulating in the Wuhan before Dec 2019. All lab members tested negative for antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. They even traveled to Singapore in Nov/Dec 2019 during virology conferences. People who attended that conference never got sick. If you assume the 3 workers that got sick in a flu season needed to be hospitalized, then there would be a hundred infected at the lab based on what we know of Covid now. No evidence any of that happened. Makes a good movie though. You can't trust the Chinese government, but you still need to follow evidence. Good discussion on the A and B variants of the initial outbreak. Edited July 9, 2021 by Jaimito 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Kurgom said: It wasn't designed but it almost certainly leaked from a lab You mentioned in another thread that society is getting close to herd immunity too, which is something I haven't read yet. Where are you getting your info from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 13 hours ago, Chris12345 said: Oh sweet so you are pretty comfortable hoping the rules change? We are at this moment, but with all the unvaccinated Americans traveling to Honolulu, between now and then, is it safe? Many of them are bat s&*t crazy, or enough of them are to have this whole immunity go South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: You mentioned in another thread that society is getting close to herd immunity too, which is something I haven't read yet. Where are you getting your info from? Do we even know what % herd immunity, for Covid, is reached? Do we count recovered from Covid people in the formula with vaccinated ones? Variants? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Do we even know what % herd immunity, for Covid, is reached? Do we count recovered from Covid people in the formula with vaccinated ones? Variants? Hey, I'm the one asking questions here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Hey, I'm the one asking questions here! Oh. Okay, I pick C for my answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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