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26 minutes ago, gurn said:

The mere fact that you think being LGTBQ+ is a decision, convinces me that trying to change your mind about vaccines is a waste of my time.

I never asked for your opinion so I don't know why it would change mine? 

 

I believe you're a warmonger.. but that is a waste of our time. 

12 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

What other option is there? Grossly misinformed? Brainwashed? Easily manipulated? So many possibilities... 

Same could be said about Pro-Vaxxers.. 

 

All I ask is for openmindness and not the usual fluff with fallacies and straw man arguments. 

Edited by drummer4now
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3 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I never asked for your opinion so I don't know why it would change mine? 

 

I believe you're a warmonger.. but that is a waste of your time. 

Same could be said about Pro-Vaxxers.. 

 

All I ask is for openmindness and not the usual fluff with fallacies and straw man arguments. 

Not sure how peer-reviewed published scientific results qualify as "misinformed", how they can bring about "brainwash"ing, or be used to "manipulate".  Peer reviewers generally speaking are required (by the nature of the work they do) to have no interest in the subject matter of the papers they review.

 

edit - and by interest, I mean they are experts in the field, but aren't involved in the subject matter of the research... not that they dgaf about the subject matter :lol:

Edited by 6of1_halfdozenofother
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12 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Not sure how peer-reviewed published scientific results qualify as "misinformed", how they can bring about "brainwash"ing, or be used to "manipulate".  Peer reviewers generally speaking are required (by the nature of the work they do) to have no interest in the subject matter of the papers they review.

 

edit - and by interest, I mean they are experts in the field, but aren't involved in the subject matter of the research... not that they dgaf about the subject matter :lol:

I was not referring to the science aspect of vaccines or peer-reviewed published journals. 

 

I was referring to the notion that vaccines are the ONLY choice when science has demonstrated to not be the case. 

When it is supposedly a choice in the western world to get one but the propaganda and pressure forces people to get one. 

 

I want accountability by our politicians to either make a law you have to get one or stop wasting our time and tell people you have a choice... 

Edited by drummer4now
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3 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I was not referring to the science aspect of vaccines or peer-reviewed published journals. 

 

I was referring to the notion that vaccines are the ONLY choice when science has demonstrated to not be the case. 

 

Except you're disparaging the "pro-vaxxers" by suggesting they're also 

Quote

Grossly misinformed? Brainwashed? Easily manipulated?

(ie. what you were responding to from @JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo's post)

 

when in fact most "pro-vaxxers" I know of are basing their decision on science and the published results of scientific studies that have been peer reviewed.  That's the part that I take issue with of your post.

 

For context, your previous post:

image.png.c57bc502895e19973ae97b00971ac545.png

 

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7 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Except you're disparaging the "pro-vaxxers" by suggesting they're also 

(ie. what you were responding to from @JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo's post)

 

when in fact most "pro-vaxxers" I know of are basing their decision on science and the published results of scientific studies that have been peer reviewed.  That's the part that I take issue with of your post.

 

For context, your previous post:

image.png.c57bc502895e19973ae97b00971ac545.png

 

I am saying Provaxxers can be all that too.. Believing everything big Pharma tells them or the government. 

 

I will say this let the person decide end of story. 

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At this point, anti-vaccine people are arguing for their own death. There are two ways forwards from this point in rich countries where there have been strong mRNA vaccine drives. Everyone gets vaccinated, or only 80% get the shot and the last 20% just die. I'm not being dramatic. The virus will cling on vaccinated people, losing against their immune system, and latch onto the unprotected ones and just destroy them because there is no resistance in the body.

 

The problem is these anti-vaccine people want to protect their health by essentially signing their own death warrant, convinced the side effects from the shot will be much worse than what they consider to still be "just a flu." Playing "devils advocate" for the anti-vaccine crowd is basically arguing that it's their right to be misinformed and kill themselves from ignorance. These people were lied to and tricked by con men and social media, they deserve to be protected against themselves, we are all human and a mistake or being stupid shouldn't result in an execution and a lot of anti-vaccine individuals can eventually be reasoned with.

 

This isn't a normal situation. People are still in shock that we're living through Spanish flu 2.0, black death 3.0, but we are advanced enough medically that the death toll isn't already in the 100 millions. Change your mindset accordingly.

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1 hour ago, Kurgom said:

At this point, anti-vaccine people are arguing for their own death. There are two ways forwards from this point in rich countries where there have been strong mRNA vaccine drives. Everyone gets vaccinated, or only 80% get the shot and the last 20% just die. I'm not being dramatic. The virus will cling on vaccinated people, losing against their immune system, and latch onto the unprotected ones and just destroy them because there is no resistance in the body.

 

The problem is these anti-vaccine people want to protect their health by essentially signing their own death warrant, convinced the side effects from the shot will be much worse than what they consider to still be "just a flu." Playing "devils advocate" for the anti-vaccine crowd is basically arguing that it's their right to be misinformed and kill themselves from ignorance. These people were lied to and tricked by con men and social media, they deserve to be protected against themselves, we are all human and a mistake or being stupid shouldn't result in an execution and a lot of anti-vaccine individuals can eventually be reasoned with.

 

This isn't a normal situation. People are still in shock that we're living through Spanish flu 2.0, black death 3.0, but we are advanced enough medically that the death toll isn't already in the 100 millions. Change your mindset accordingly.

Very incorrect statements....

 

You're mostly thinking about the idiots in the anti-vaccine movement like 5g or chips type of people; when there are doctors, scientists and what not whom are involved in this movement. 

 

For the 5g and chips in vaccine people I can agree with you they're being lied about; but for the most majority they have legitimate reasons. 

 

This is nowhere close to Spanish flu or Black Death... 

I believe vaccines are safe for most of the diseases and illnesses but for this particular virus one should be cautious at the very least. 

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14 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

Very incorrect statements....

 

You're mostly thinking about the idiots in the anti-vaccine movement like 5g or chips type of people; when there are doctors, scientists and what not whom are involved in this movement. 

 

For the 5g and chips in vaccine people I can agree with you they're being lied about; but for the most majority they have legitimate reasons. 

 

This is nowhere close to Spanish flu or Black Death... 

I believe vaccines are safe for most of the diseases and illnesses but for this particular virus one should be cautious at the very least. 

Why this?

 

What are your primary sources for this?

 

You realize that the majority of antivaxx bs on social media can be traced to a dozen accounts. 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

 

As for your bit about the Spanish flu and the Black Death, what could possibly be the difference between then and now?  Science?  Modern medicine?  Vaccines?   Really, we're in the same boat (obviously sarcasm for that last sentence).  

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9 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Why this?

 

What are your primary sources for this?

 

You realize that the majority of antivaxx bs on social media can be traced to a dozen accounts. 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

 

As for your bit about the Spanish flu and the Black Death, what could possibly be the difference between then and now?  Science?  Modern medicine?  Vaccines?   Really, we're in the same boat (obviously sarcasm for that last sentence).  

First off I don't know why you referred to the social media accounts when I said I agree that the 5g chips in vaccine crowd are being lied too.. 

 

There are medical professionals and scientists who are anti-vaxx or the very least pro choice. 

I personally met a medical doctor from Denman Island BC and he is pro-choice; he even attended a anti-vaxx rally. 

 

The main differences between Covid-19 and the previous illnesses is how deadly they were and level of severity on the general population. 

People literally dropped like flies with those diseases and millions of deaths later. 

 

Covid-19 is deadly don't get me wrong but it is mostly been overblown to fear monger people into submission. 

A virus that can be eradicated via sunlight to say the least. 

 

https://www.ksat.com/news/national/2020/08/14/dr-anthony-fauci-tells-matthew-mcconaughey-sunlight-kills-covid-19-gets-candid-in-qa/

Edited by drummer4now
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33 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

The main differences between Covid-19 and the previous illnesses is how deadly they were and level of severity on the general population. 

People literally dropped like flies with those diseases and millions of deaths later.

The main difference is vaccines, understanding of the spread of the disease and modern medicine. You are delusional if you think it's anything else.

 

Also, doctors aren't a good source. Family doctors can be poorly educated from abroad, and generally are because doctors with education from Canadian universities either move to the US to make bank or specialize most of the time. There are a lot of stupid RN's that are anti-vaccine. Treating people doesn't mean you understand the complexities of virology.

Edited by Kurgom
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I'm curious to know how much overlap there is between "pro-choice" vaccination and "pro-life" anti-abortion populations.  I suspect it might be a very close match, which is morbidly laughable, because on the one hand, they're touting "my body my choice" for vaccination... but then deny the same rights to people who also state "my body my choice" when it comes to abortions.

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1 hour ago, drummer4now said:

First off I don't know why you referred to the social media accounts when I said I agree that the 5g chips in vaccine crowd are being lied too.. 

 

There are medical professionals and scientists who are anti-vaxx or the very least pro choice. 

I personally met a medical doctor from Denman Island BC and he is pro-choice; he even attended a anti-vaxx rally. 

 

The main differences between Covid-19 and the previous illnesses is how deadly they were and level of severity on the general population. 

People literally dropped like flies with those diseases and millions of deaths later. 

 

Covid-19 is deadly don't get me wrong but it is mostly been overblown to fear monger people into submission. 

A virus that can be eradicated via sunlight to say the least. 

 

https://www.ksat.com/news/national/2020/08/14/dr-anthony-fauci-tells-matthew-mcconaughey-sunlight-kills-covid-19-gets-candid-in-qa/

Overblown.  When multiple jurisdictions reported that more people died in less than a year than died from the flu in the past decade?  Am I missing something?  And why exactly are people being fear mongered into submission?  For what gain?  By who?  Or will I have to do my own research even though you've obviously done the research?

 

Again, bringing up the Spanish flu and the Black Death and comparing them to this pandemic isn't a valid point.  Science, medicine are miles ahead.  

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1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I'm curious to know how much overlap there is between "pro-choice" vaccination and "pro-life" anti-abortion populations.  I suspect it might be a very close match, which is morbidly laughable, because on the one hand, they're touting "my body my choice" for vaccination... but then deny the same rights to people who also state "my body my choice" when it comes to abortions.

Murder. And you're right it might be similar. 

 

Abortion is filth of this world and unless it was due to rape or something or for some god for sake reason IMO it is bad. 

People being lazy and stupid not using contraceptives or birth control do not deserve children or have the right to abort if they decide later they made a mistake. 

Now of course they do abort, but that is a whole can of worms :emot-parrot:

It is too bad we live in a disposable society where human fetus and unborn babies are treated like nothing special. 

 

I can't even explain you how bad it is. 

Edited by drummer4now
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8 hours ago, drummer4now said:

Murder. And you're right it might be similar. 

 

Abortion is filth of this world and unless it was due to rape or something or for some god for sake reason IMO it is bad. 

People being lazy and stupid not using contraceptives or birth control do not deserve children or have the right to abort if they decide later they made a mistake. 

Now of course they do abort, but that is a whole can of worms :emot-parrot:

It is too bad we live in a disposable society where human fetus and unborn babies are treated like nothing special. 

 

I can't even explain you how bad it is. 

And I personally think that those who think a woman shouldn't have autonomy over their own body are the filth of this world.  Don't like abortions?  Don't get one.

 

If you want to make judgements aboutv what someone else' does with their body, expect others to do the same when your choice endangers their health.

Edited by King Heffy
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19 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

Murder. And you're right it might be similar. 

 

Abortion is filth of this world and unless it was due to rape or something or for some god for sake reason IMO it is bad. 

People being lazy and stupid not using contraceptives or birth control do not deserve children or have the right to abort if they decide later they made a mistake. 

Now of course they do abort, but that is a whole can of worms :emot-parrot:

It is too bad we live in a disposable society where human fetus and unborn babies are treated like nothing special. 

 

I can't even explain you how bad it is. 

Ohhh no. Here we go. 

 

Is this thread going to get hijacked? 

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22 minutes ago, gurn said:

Hoping it is just a temporary blip. :)

 

 

Expecting it isn't. :(

Supposedly, it's an "expected outcome" due to the broadening of gathering allowances and relaxation of social distancing/masking measures.  The gamble our Provincial PHO is making is that because the majority of people are vaccinated, the restrictions can be reduced because there are expected to be less adverse or critically serious outcomes.  Key word being gamble.

 

Far be it from me to be a debbie downer, but I think that at some point, one of the variants will render the vaccines ineffective, which will compel us to be back to massive restrictions again.

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