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Just now, Alflives said:

I like Alaska.  Can we have Alaska?  Northern California is nice too.  

We will never get any of California but we can maybe trade Alaska for a case of Molsons.

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59 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

Yeah sure if you like constitutional rights to be changed or amended on the fly… 

 

What is the point of having a charter of rights if it can just be changed or modified at please? 
 

WE Are guaranteed mobility rights within the provinces and territories and according to the charter it is unhindered. 
 

My judgement is purely based on what is written in law.

Rights come with responsibilities. If these morons from alberta refuse to get their $&!# together than they dont deserve to travel here and &^@# up our progress

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2 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

No one that I know has ever denied he said it.  It's why he said it.  I'm so sick of the bullsh*t misinformation spewed........people that continue to spout off and put themselves ahead of their community are the reason that Kelowna is back under mandates and the reason why businesses are having to close down.

 

Drop the "in the name of freedom" act, no one is buying what you're selling anymore

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3 hours ago, King Heffy said:

When those rights were guaranteed, no one thought Alberta would unleash biological weapons against the rest of the country.  Maybe wexit might be useful after all if it g creates a hard border between us and those morons.

AS I have said before I call myself an BC Patriot stuck in Albertabama - I still wear a mask and I have been double-vaccinated for several months. The fact that the government here is reducing contract tracers, not requiring people who test positive to isolate starting next month is mind blowing. You guys can hack on Bonnie Henry all you like but Deena Hinshaw here in Albertabama must have got her degree from the University of Phoenix online. Would not be shocking to learn some of the high number of cases in the Kelowna area are due to travelers from here :(

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So about 73 % of B.C'. ers have had 1 shot and 58% have had 2, according to these guys 

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/track-how-many-people-have-been-given-the-covid-19-vaccine-across-canada-1.5870573

 

If B.C. tops out at 80% for both shots that still leaves  about 920,000 people without any.

If they all eventually get covid 5% are going to be hospitalized and 1.18% are likely dead.   Approx 46,000 hospitalizations with 10,450  ish dying. Still large enough numbers to crush the medical system.

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, gurn said:

So about 73 % of B.C'. ers have had 1 shot and 58% have had 2, according to these guys 

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/track-how-many-people-have-been-given-the-covid-19-vaccine-across-canada-1.5870573

 

If B.C. tops out at 80% for both shots that still leaves  about 920,000 people without any.

If they all eventually get covid 5% are going to be hospitalized and 1.18% are likely dead.   Approx 46,000 hospitalizations with 10,450  ish dying. Still large enough numbers to crush the medical system.

 

 

 

That quick math is really crushing.   So many unnecessary deaths and hospitalizations that we taxpayers are going to pay for in some way.  

 

But MuH FrEeDoM!!!!!!!!!  Freedom of being a cautionary tale for future generations. 

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4 hours ago, EOTM said:

We take Washington and Oregon. Montana absorbs Alberta and Sask. Everybody wins.

 

4 hours ago, EOTM said:

We will never get any of California but we can maybe trade Alaska for a case of Molsons.

Just to clarify, having lived in California and lived in the US for a number of years.

 

Oregon and Washington, and large parts of California have populations of rednecks and right wing lunatics that make the average hot blooded anti Trudeau Albertan look like a BLM protesting leftist by comparison.

 

I mean if we're picking and choosing I'm ok with essentially the entire coastline plus 100 km inland and that's about it.

 

Plus, the cities of Seattle/tacoma Portland and the Bay area alone are holding populations larger than the entire population of BC and in fact approaching the entirety of the nation of Canada.

 

I'd be far more amiable to reaching a fair movement agreement with the US over Alberta and allowing them to leave if they want, as long as they promise to leave their citizenship at the border

Edited by Warhippy
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1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

 

Just to clarify, having lived in California and lived in the US for a number of years.

 

Oregon and Washington, and large parts of California have populations of rednecks and right wing lunatics that make the average hot blooded anti Trudeau Albertan look like a BLM protesting leftist by comparison.

 

I mean if we're picking and choosing I'm ok with essentially the entire coastline plus 100 km inland and that's about it.

 

Plus, the cities of Seattle/tacoma Portland and the Bay area alone are holding populations larger than the entire population of BC and in fact approaching the entirety of the nation of Canada.

 

I'd be far more amiable to reaching a fair movement agreement with the US over Alberta and allowing them to leave if they want, as long as they promise to leave their citizenship at the border

Look...I just want the coastline. Plus most of the spread necks would probably leave  so they could still be muricans. I hear Idaho is nice.

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6 hours ago, stawns said:

No one that I know has ever denied he said it.  It's why he said it.  I'm so sick of the bullsh*t misinformation spewed........people that continue to spout off and put themselves ahead of their community are the reason that Kelowna is back under mandates and the reason why businesses are having to close down.

 

Drop the "in the name of freedom" act, no one is buying what you're selling anymore

 

What are you on about? I made an offhanded comment adding to the point that some of our politicians have been dishonest (and you can add hypocritical too in some cases), using the Fauci example. Its not an attack on anyone's viewpoint. 

 

Don't know what your trying to paint me as but I'm politically cynical, & just find some of the contradictions/hypocrisies from leaders (or narrative drivers) amusing. 

 

 

8 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I was looking and listening for the part where he admits that he was lying, as you claimed. It's not there.....

 

No-one is disputing that mistakes were made.

 

Your right, he didn't didn't explicitly say he 'lied'. I hyperbolized it, but again giving the reason like he did is an admission imo.

 

We can agree mistakes were made. Both with our leaders & with our next door neighbors like Stawns is keying in on. 

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27 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Your right, he didn't didn't explicitly say he 'lied'. I hyperbolized it, but again giving the reason like he did is an admission imo.

 

We can agree mistakes were made. Both with our leaders & with our next door neighbors like Stawns is keying in on. 

It was an admission that he made mistakes. Not that he "lied".

 

I don't understand why you have so much trouble differentiating between the two. They're not analogous....

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Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

It was an admission that he made mistakes. Not that he "lied".

 

I don't understand why you have so much trouble differentiating between the two. They're not analogous....

 

By saying they weren't effective so that they could protect from a shortage? (Which he called the "critical issue" in explaining the change). The discouragement of them to the public when they apparently knew better (given the implied importance of, you know, not running out of them...), is the dishonesty. I don't really want to waste more time arguing about this, agree to disagree. 

 

 

I do have another question for you though actually,- and @stawns if he wants to jump in - when we're beyond this do you think China will and/or should face some kind of consequences for their negligence in warning the world at the beginning? 

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3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

By saying they weren't effective so that they could protect from a shortage? (Which he called the "critical issue" in explaining the change). The discouragement of them to the public when they apparently knew better (given the implied importance of, you know, not running out of them...), is the dishonesty. I don't really want to waste more time arguing about this, agree to disagree. 

 

 

I do have another question for you though actually,- and @stawns if he wants to jump in - when we're beyond this do you think China will and/or should face some kind of consequences for their negligence in warning the world at the beginning? 

Do you have a source to back up this claim? The source you posted earlier suggested that they didn't know....

 

If you don't want to "waste any more time", why don't you just admit that you were the one who was being dishonest when you claimed that Fauci "admitted he was lying"?

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6 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Do you have a source to back up this claim? The source you posted earlier suggested that they didn't know....

 

If you don't want to "waste any more time", why don't you just admit that you were the one who was being dishonest when you claimed that Fauci "admitted he was lying"?

 

Deductive reasoning Rupert.

 

Your know what your right. Fauci didn't know masks were effective while simultaneously trying to hoard them for people in contact with the virus. I was wrong to suggest he was dishonest.

 

 

Now care to answer my question about China? I mean it in good faith as I'm genuinely curious what you think on it. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Deductive reasoning Rupert.

 

Your know what your right. Fauci didn't know masks were effective while simultaneously trying to hoard them for people in contact with the virus. I was wrong to suggest he was dishonest.

 

 

Now care to answer my question about China? I mean it in good faith as I'm genuinely curious what you think on it.

It's a difficult question to answer when I don't know the details of how the virus started out....

 

If it started in wet markets, I'd like to see them outlawed, but I have no idea how the international community would force that. If it was allowed to "escape" a lab, then you'd have to somehow prove negligence. Again, I have no idea how you would determine that, or who was responsible.

 

The lab theory also opens up a bit of a can of worms. Some of the research done in these labs is funded by the international scientific community, so assigning blame becomes even more problematic.

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11 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It's a difficult question to answer when I don't know the details of how the virus started out....

 

If it started in wet markets, I'd like to see them outlawed, but I have no idea how the international community would force that. If it was allowed to "escape" a lab, then you'd have to somehow prove negligence. Again, I have no idea how you would determine that, or who was responsible.

 

The lab theory also opens up a bit of a can of worms. Some of the research done in these labs is funded by the international scientific community, so assigning blame becomes even more problematic.

 

I'm just thinking regardless of the origin, hadn't this already been going on in China prior to coming to the rest of the world? Didn't a doctor who originally tried to warn people about the seriousness get warned to be quiet by the gov't, and then the gov't had to apologize to his family b/c he died of covid? Because that's definitely negligence in my view.

 

(I actually found this article about it, certain parts of my questions/rambling is addressed;

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51364382

 

I guess there could be political factors that played into why China handled that situation like they did.. but man seeing how destructive this has been to the whole world, its tough to accept. 

 

Regarding the origin I agree with your analysis on both scenario's. Im not sure where the consensus is now but it seemed like it was leaning lab last I waded into it. That is a can of worms for sure.

 

 

 

 

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The lab theory is unlikely - there have already been studies about the virus and the version in circulation in different areas of China at different points. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-circulated-europe-china-before-wuhan-outbreak-2020-12%3famp

 

the wet market was likely just a super spreader event 

 

 

also this is an intesting read from Cambridge university 

 

 

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins

 


 

Researchers from Cambridge, UK, and Germany have reconstructed the early 'evolutionary paths' of SARS-CoV-2 in humans – as infection spread from Wuhan out to Europe and North America – using genetic network techniques.'

By analysing the first 160 complete virus genomes to be sequenced from human patients, the scientists have mapped some of the original spread of the new coronavirus through its mutations, which creates different viral lineages.

“There are too many rapid mutations to neatly trace a SARS-CoV-2 family tree. We used a mathematical network algorithm to visualise all the plausible trees simultaneously,” said geneticist Dr Peter Forster, lead author from the University of Cambridge.  

“These techniques are mostly known for mapping the movements of prehistoric human populations through DNA. We think this is one of the first times they have been used to trace the infection routes of a coronavirus like COVID-19.” 

The team used data from virus genomes sampled from across the world between 24 December 2019 and 4 March 2020. The research revealed three distinct 'variants' of SARS-CoV-2, consisting of clusters of closely related lineages, which they label ‘A’, ‘B’ and ‘C’.

Forster and colleagues found that the closest type of SARS-CoV-2 to the one discovered in bats – type ‘A’, the “original human virus genome” – was present in Wuhan, but surprisingly was not the city’s predominant virus type.

Versions of ‘A’ were seen in Chinese individuals, and Americans reported to have lived in Wuhan, and mutated versions of ‘A’ were found in patients from the USA and Australia.

Wuhan’s major virus type, ‘B’, was prevalent in patients from across East Asia. However, the variant didn’t travel much beyond the region without further mutations – implying a 'founder event' in Wuhan, or 'resistance' against this type of coronavirus outside East Asia, say researchers.

The ‘C’ variant is the major European type, found in early patients from France, Italy, Sweden and England. It is absent from the study’s Chinese mainland sample, but seen in Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea.

The new analysis also suggests that one of the earliest introductions of the virus into Italy came via the first documented German infection on 27 January, and that another early Italian infection route was related to a 'Singapore cluster'.

Importantly, the researchers say that their genetic networking techniques accurately traced established infection routes: the mutations and viral lineages joined the dots between known cases.

As such, the scientists argue that these 'phylogenetic' methods could be applied to the very latest coronavirus genome sequencing to help predict future global hot spots of disease transmission and surge.

“Phylogenetic network analysis has the potential to help identify undocumented COVID-19 infection sources, which can then be quarantined to contain further spread of the disease worldwide,” said Forster, a fellow of the McDonald Institute of Archaeological Research at Cambridge, as well as the University’s Institute of Continuing Education.

The findings are published today in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). The software used in the study, as well as classifications for over 1,000 coronavirus genomes and counting, is available free at www.fluxus-technology.com.   

Variant ‘A’, most closely related to the virus found in both bats and pangolins, is described as 'the root of the outbreak' by researchers. Type ‘B’ is derived from ‘A’, separated by two mutations, then ‘C’ is in turn a “daughter” of ‘B’.

Researchers say the localisation of the ‘B’ variant to East Asia could result from a 'founder effect': a genetic bottleneck that occurs when, in the case of a virus, a new type is established from a small, isolated group of infections.

Forster argues that there is another explanation worth considering. “The Wuhan B-type virus could be immunologically or environmentally adapted to a large section of the East Asian population. It may need to mutate to overcome resistance outside East Asia. We seem to see a slower mutation rate in East Asia than elsewhere, in this initial phase.”

He added: “The viral network we have detailed is a snapshot of the early stages of an epidemic, before the evolutionary paths of COVID-19 become obscured by vast numbers of mutations. It’s like catching an incipient supernova in the act.”

Since today’s PNAS study was conducted, the research team has extended its analysis to 1,001 viral genomes. While yet to be peer-reviewed, Forster says the latest work suggests that the first infection and spread among humans of SARS-CoV-2 occurred between mid-September and early December. 

The phylogenetic network methods used by researchers – allowing the visualisation of hundreds of evolutionary trees simultaneously in one simple graph – were pioneered in New Zealand in 1979, then developed by German mathematicians in the 1990s.

These techniques came to the attention of archaeologist Professor Colin Renfrew, a co-author of the new PNAS study, in 1998. Renfrew went on to establish one of the first archaeogenetics research groups in the world at the University of Cambridge.  

 

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