Coronavirus outbreak

[EOTM]

19 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Good questions. I was just asking to what degree, I doubt it'll go that far myself but I guess the restrictions will have to be decided if/when this comes into affect. I agree with @Warhippy that an organization like the Canucks are well within their right to mandate vaccinations for entrance to games next year, for example.

 

Regarding approval I guess those folks will have a decision to make, and I doubt it'll be changing their mind.

 

I get the sense, atleast with some of the discourse anyways, that some vaccinated people almost view the unvaccinated as the only hurdle to regaining their freedoms. I understand their frustration but I have doubt that the finish line is so clear. (Tho I could definitely be wrong)

 

 

Do we have a current benchmark for herd immunity?

There is no real "benchmark" for herd immunity. Generally it happens anywhere between 50% and 90% but there are several variables for that i believe.

 

While unvaccinated people aren't the only hurdle they are the major hurdle. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by EOTM

[King Heffy]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

One of my friends, unvaxxed (I'm healthy I'll be fine), has been sick for three days, got her positive test results today.  I asked her where she thinks she picked it up......"I don't know, but I have a friend who is fully vaxxed and not feeling well, I think I got it from her"

 

She's been conspiracy tainted from day one and now her behaviour has caught up with her and she's looking to blame the vaccinated.  These bloody people

 

So she isn't enjoying her experimental virus?  So sad.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

So she isn't enjoying her experimental virus?  So sad.

Yup, dumbass

[Gurn]

You are out in a small boat, just having a great day sailing, when the boat hits a submerged log and begins taking on water.

As you steer for shore you hand out some bailing jugs. 4 passengers say, thanks, and begin scooping, 1 says "who cares I can swim" and refuses to help out.

you see this and realize:

There is problem here as with only 4 people scooping you are unlikely to reach shore.

you need to pick better people to go sailing with.

you may have to throw the non bailer overboard to reduce your draught, and perhaps lessen the in rush of water. Now don't feel bad for the one tossed overboard-remember they said they could swim.

 

At some point we have to just let them swim.

At some point the number crunchers will figure out that the medical system can now withstand the mass of non bailers.

 

 

 

[EOTM]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Sounds like the vaccine's reduced it to the severity of the common cold.  Realistically, that's the result we were looking for.

Exactly. The problem being that right now youth are still just getting into their vaccinations and children under 12 still can't so when they get it it's going to hit hard. Not to mention people with compromised systems that can't get the vaccine.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, EOTM said:

Exactly. The problem being that right now youth are still just getting into their vaccinations and children under 12 still can't so when they get it it's going to hit hard. Not to mention people with compromised systems that can't get the vaccine.

And guess who gets to spend 6 hours a day with 500 kids under 12 in less than a month?

 

[EOTM]

Just now, stawns said:

And guess who gets to spend 6 hours a day with 500 kids under 12 in less than a month?

 

I mean...that's awful at the best of times.

 

[Wilbur]

8 minutes ago, EOTM said:

There is no real "benchmark" for herd immunity. Generally it happens anywhere between 50% and 90% but there are several variables for that i believe.

 

While unvaccinated people aren't the only hurdle they are the major hurdle. 

The biggest variable in herd immunity is how contagious the virus is.  So while it's hard to pinpoint herd immunity for Covid-19, most experts seem to say ~85% as it's very contagious.

[-DLC-]

 

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

If you live in a 'free' country where you can't go to the grocery store to feed your family w/o documents of an (emergency authorized) injection, then maybe the modern communists have a point? or realistically your just treading along the same lines.

 

I don't even mean that comment to be a pro or anti vax thing, but... Idk we just live in bizarro world right now. 

I don't think they do have a point myself.  I think this is a purely capitalist move.  Businesses dictating what they will/won't do is as far from communism as it gets in my opinion.  It's bizarre for me too though.

 

We now live in a world where the far left and far right are now arm in arm against government oversight and big pharma.  Where they have eschewed all intelligent debate and screech about "muh freedumbs"

 

Push one side or the other out of equilibrium to hard and eventually both sides will fall in the centre I guess

11 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Hippy explain to me this logic...  so if you get vaccinated you're still able to contract Covid and transmit it, right?  Especially when talking about new strains that will be endless.  So how does restricting businesses to vaccinated people accomplish anything?  

 

If vaccinated people are safe out in public, then please come and talk to my building and explain to them that masks shouldn't be mandatory anymore for vaccinated people. 

 

 

What logic is that?  Allowing businesses to dictate who they will serve based on medical knowledge as it stands?  A vaccinated person apparently CAN contract this new wave of Delta variant.  As such even vaccinated people are being asked to wear masks.  I am unsure as to why that is difficult to understand.

 

Your building needs talking to?  Will it answer back?

 

I kid.

 

But seriously, the best possible logic for the vaccinated continuing to wear masks is also the most simple.  You get in my vehicle, I have been drinking.  Why are you wearing a seatbelt?  I am already wearing one so you are safe.  It's ok if I'm drunk driving, you haven't had a drop, but i'm protected so you don't need a seatbelt.

 

See where I'm going with this?  Just because you HAVE had available protection, does not mean or suggest you should not continue to exercise caution.  A vaccinated person apparently being able to pick up a new variant and potentially spread it (although far less so than unvaccinated people) should still wear a mask, wash their hands, keep their distance if possible.  For myself, it makes perfect sense.  

[Warhippy]

29 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

 

There is a 7-10 day lag between new cases and hospitalizations.  My guess is round the 20th we will see those hospital numbers around 30-75 or higher.  Doesn't seem like much but that's not taking in to account the current issues with respiratory problems due to the insane amount of smoke in the valley, the day to day bumps and bruises and what have you.

 

Looks like my kids won't start the school year normally....again

[-DLC-]

12 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

I definitely agree in principal regarding the free market choice, but to what degree?

 

If you live in a 'free' country where you can't go to the grocery store to feed your family w/o documents of an (emergency authorized) injection, then maybe the modern communists have a point? or realistically your just treading along the same lines.

 

 

 

The freedom to choose/decide also allows you freedom to:  grow your own food; use an online platform to order and have food delivered; have someone who is vaccinated to shop for you, etc.

 

If you want your cake and want to go to the store and mingle with others before you eat it, too, you may have to live with that choice and then decide how to proceed beyond it.  

 

It is a free country....for me as well as you.  I want the "freedom" to wander the city as safely as possible.  So BOTH freedoms have to line up in some way.  

 

Not just the one that refuses the vax and still wants everything to line up for them.  If a public health order advises that it's best for you AND me to be vaccinated, that is worth considering.

[Boudrias]

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

The freedom to choose/decide also allows you freedom to:  grow your own food; use an online platform to order and have food delivered.

 

If you want your cake and want to go to the store and mingle with others before you eat it, too, you have to live with that choice and then decide how to proceed beyond it.

 

It is a free country....for me as well as you.  I want the "freedom" to wander the city as safely as possible.

What is the definition of freedom? We all curtail our base desires either through community enforcement or personal values. Do we pay taxes even if we don't utilize all services that they provide? Restricting access to a business by vac or not? When the government wanted us to where masks it became OK for them to deny access based on that. I don't think it is a stretch to show proof that you have been vaccinated. Good health protocol.

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

The freedom to choose/decide also allows you freedom to:  grow your own food; use an online platform to order and have food delivered; have someone who is vaccinated to shop for you, etc.

 

If you want your cake and want to go to the store and mingle with others before you eat it, too, you may have to live with that choice and then decide how to proceed beyond it.  

 

It is a free country....for me as well as you.  I want the "freedom" to wander the city as safely as possible.  So BOTH freedoms have to line up in some way.  

 

Not just the one that refuses the vax and still wants everything to line up for them.  If a public health order advises that it's best for you AND me to be vaccinated, that is worth considering.

No one is being restricted by anything other than their own choices, if/when we go to a vax pass of somekind.  They have the freedom to choose to not get vaxxed, but those choices come with consequences. That's the missing link for almost everyone of these people.........they think freedom doesn't come with responsibility

[bishopshodan]

'The tide is really turning' on support for COVID-19 vaccine passports, expert says

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/vaccine-passports-ontario-mandatory-vaccinations-1.6132755

 

...

"I think the tide is really turning," with more people supporting the idea, said Bryan Thomas, a research associate with the Centre for Law, Policy and Health Ethics at the University of Ottawa. 

 

If the government doesn't create some form of proof of vaccination, he expects those in the private sector will "and it'll just be a wild west with untold problems."...

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

17 hours ago, EOTM said:

It doesn't force anything. Choices have consequences to them. Nobody has to get the vaccine because of a passport just like nobody has to fly because they want to travel.

Well if Canada implements something that prevents you from going from province to province without a vaccine then it does, you can disagree all you want but if that ends up happening that's taking away your freedom, you can compare it to buying food all you want but it's not the same. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Well if Canada implements something that prevents you from going from province to province without a vaccine then it does, you can disagree all you want but if that ends up happening that's taking away your freedom, you can compare it to buying food all you want but it's not the same. 

I think vaccine passports will be for accessing businesses and large gatherings, like big events.  Travelling between provinces will be the Okay, but likely only by car.  Air travel will likely require a vaccine passport.  These vaccine passports are what the vast majority of Canadians want, so it’s coming.  

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Just now, Alflives said:

I think vaccine passports will be for accessing businesses and large gatherings, like big events.  Travelling between provinces will be the Okay, but likely only by car.  Air travel will likely require a vaccine passport.  These vaccine passports are what the vast majority of Canadians want, so it’s coming.  

Okay, so why is it not the same for families with children who refuse to give their kids vaccines when their young from diseases like measels, mumps, chickenpox etc, they say they don't force those on people because it's their right to choose, but they're now at risk from contracting a virus like this from another country if they travel and bring it back to their community. I feel like a double standard is going on now, and that's not right.

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Okay, so why is it not the same for families with children who refuse to give their kids vaccines when their young from diseases like measels, mumps, chickenpox etc, they say they don't force those on people because it's their right to choose, but they're now at risk from contracting a virus like this from another country if they travel and bring it back to their community. I feel like a double standard is going on now, and that's not right.

Do kids who don’t get the required child vaccines get to attend public schools?  Or are they home schooled?  So there are consequences (not fair to the kids really; it’s not their fault) for refusing required vaccines.  

[4petesake]

19 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Okay, so why is it not the same for families with children who refuse to give their kids vaccines when their young from diseases like measels, mumps, chickenpox etc, they say they don't force those on people because it's their right to choose, but they're now at risk from contracting a virus like this from another country if they travel and bring it back to their community. I feel like a double standard is going on now, and that's not right.

Ontario and New Brunswick are two of the provinces with mandatory vaccinations to attend school. Ontario and NB kids must be vaccinated against measles, diphtheria, tetanus, polio, mumps and rubella. Manitoba has mandatory measles vaccination. In BC it became mandatory for for parents to register the vaccination status of children with the school in 2019. In the event of an outbreak unvaccinated children would not be able to attend school for 21 days.