Coronavirus outbreak

[Kurgom]

12 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

That's nice to know they've done homework, but I wasn't aware a phone had a disease that was killing that many people and they need a cure for the phones....

I'm not sure what that has to do with something being experimental. The effects of smartphones on sleep and health are still being studied and won't be fully known for a decade. No one screeched about the iPhone being experimental technology when they lined up to buy one. mRNA vaccines have been in development for a decade and now are getting full FDA approval. This argument that mRNA is "experimental" just tells me the person arguing doesn't have much respect for or understanding of the scientific process. 

 

We'd totally have smallpox today if people had access to this much misinformation back then. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Kurgom

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

38 minutes ago, BPA said:

Nice quote.

 

Please provide a link from where you got that from.

 

Thanks.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-are-mrna-vaccines-so-exciting-2020121021599

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 minute ago, Kurgom said:

I'm not sure what that has to do with something being experimental. The effects of smartphones on sleep and health are still being studied and won't be fully known for a decade. No one screeched about the iPhone being experimental technology when they lined up to buy one. mRNA vaccines have been in development for a decade and now are getting full FDA approval. This argument that mRNA is "experimental" just tells me the person arguing doesn't have much respect or understanding of the scientific process. 

Ok then please show me where it shows that before Pfizer and Moderna how many Vaccines that used mRNA have been "approved" for use in humans? None. How is it not experimental? Just because they have done years of testing makes it now not experimental.... huh.....

[bigbadcanucks]

2 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

So how come Moderna is staying at 93%? Moderna only drops 1.5% but Pfizer drops 11% with new variants. The one who claimed at the beginning to be the strongest, hmm.

 

Or the other question maybe is, is Moderna telling the truth....

Big Pharma...do you actually trust any of them? 

 

My sister is an exec with Pfizer's Cardiology Drug Medicine Group and you should see the big pharma kool-aid she's drinking.  We have some very interesting conversations at Christmas time...especially since I was an exec with a Big-Tobacco company til I left that industry in 2004.

[Kurgom]

3 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Ok then please show me where it shows that before Pfizer and Moderna how many Vaccines that used mRNA have been "approved" for use in humans? None. How is it not experimental? Just because they have done years of testing makes it now not experimental.... huh.....

Years of experimental testing you could say.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

2 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Big Pharma...do you actually trust any of them? 

 

My sister is an exec with Pfizer's Cardiology Drug Medicine Group and you should see the big pharma kool-aid she's drinking.  We have some very interesting conversations at Christmas time...especially since I was an exec with a Big-Tobacco company til I left that industry in 2004.

Oh I could see those arguments, especially coming from a company that tried to claim Tobacco was safe, even had doctors telling their patients smoking was safe back in the day 

[Kurgom]

10 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Yeah, it's called social media.  You could even say fora such as this one could fall into that category.  

But seriously, people like good old chuck just think they're doing the right thing. The true villains are out of reach funding more "alternative" media. 

 

Vaccines have side effects, they show up within 2 months because a vaccine isn't staying in your body for a long time. How many people and how many years of successful vaccinations are needed before this irrational fear subsides? 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Kurgom

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

What about a SARS vaccine? Vaccine studies for SARS-CoV-1 were started and tested in animal models. An inactivated whole virus was used in ferrets, nonhuman primates and mice. All of the vaccines resulted in protective immunity, but there were complications; the vaccines resulted in an immune disease in animals. No human studies were done, nor were the vaccine studies taken further because the virus disappeared. Many factors were involved in the end of SARS-CoV-1, perhaps including summer weather, and certainly strict quarantine of all those who had contact with infected individuals, but we don’t really know why the epidemic ended. Viruses are like that, unpredictable!

 

Many of the vaccines being developed for SARS-CoV-2 are quite different, and many use only small portions of the virus, or the virus RNA. This may circumvent the problems with SARS-CoV-1 vaccines that used more of the virus. Vaccine development has a large experimental component; we just have to make educated guesses and try different things and see what works. Hence, many different avenues for vaccines are being tested by different labs around the world.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-mysterious-disappearance-of-the-first-sars-virus-and-why-we-need-a-vaccine-for-the-current-one-but-didnt-for-the-other-137583

 

 

I was looking into Sars and the use of vaccine for that virus and humans, it did seem to be effective against the Sars virus itself, but it ended up causing immune system problems that was definitely alarming to see. Now onto this virus, don't they say people with immune system problems should not be taking the vaccine.... Just because they say it's safe I guess they're right.....

[Kurgom]

15 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

What about a SARS vaccine? Vaccine studies for SARS-CoV-1 were started and tested in animal models. An inactivated whole virus was used in ferrets, nonhuman primates and mice. All of the vaccines resulted in protective immunity, but there were complications; the vaccines resulted in an immune disease in animals. No human studies were done, nor were the vaccine studies taken further because the virus disappeared. Many factors were involved in the end of SARS-CoV-1, perhaps including summer weather, and certainly strict quarantine of all those who had contact with infected individuals, but we don’t really know why the epidemic ended. Viruses are like that, unpredictable!

 

Many of the vaccines being developed for SARS-CoV-2 are quite different, and many use only small portions of the virus, or the virus RNA. This may circumvent the problems with SARS-CoV-1 vaccines that used more of the virus. Vaccine development has a large experimental component; we just have to make educated guesses and try different things and see what works. Hence, many different avenues for vaccines are being tested by different labs around the world.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-mysterious-disappearance-of-the-first-sars-virus-and-why-we-need-a-vaccine-for-the-current-one-but-didnt-for-the-other-137583

 

 

I was looking into Sars and the use of vaccine for that virus and humans, it did seem to be effective against the Sars virus itself, but it ended up causing immune system problems that was definitely alarming to see. Now onto this virus, don't they say people with immune system problems should not be taking the vaccine.... Just because they say it's safe I guess they're right.....

Well, immunocompromised were given priority for mRNA vaccines, because they do not carry live virus like old fashioned vaccines which they are advised against. 

 

You are a good man with good intentions, but you've been mislead and misguided. 

 

https://www.catie.ca/en/catienews/2021-05-25/encouraging-results-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-hiv-positive-people

Edited August 8, 2021 by Kurgom

[EOTM]

2 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Not experimental you say... 

 

I'll leave this then I'm done in here for today.

 

Never before have mRNA vaccines — such as the two-dose Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines that have now received emergency use authorization from the FDA — been approved for use in any disease. 

 

 

And so...they went through all 3 trials. They have also been used in trials before.

 

So not experimental. You know what an experiment is right?

[EOTM]

1 hour ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

*cough* profit motive *cough*

Could be but I'm sure they would rather get back to focusing on what makes them way more money. Vaccines while being profitable is a waste of their time compared on the money they make for treatment drugs.

[EOTM]

30 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

What about a SARS vaccine? Vaccine studies for SARS-CoV-1 were started and tested in animal models. An inactivated whole virus was used in ferrets, nonhuman primates and mice. All of the vaccines resulted in protective immunity, but there were complications; the vaccines resulted in an immune disease in animals. No human studies were done, nor were the vaccine studies taken further because the virus disappeared. Many factors were involved in the end of SARS-CoV-1, perhaps including summer weather, and certainly strict quarantine of all those who had contact with infected individuals, but we don’t really know why the epidemic ended. Viruses are like that, unpredictable!

 

Many of the vaccines being developed for SARS-CoV-2 are quite different, and many use only small portions of the virus, or the virus RNA. This may circumvent the problems with SARS-CoV-1 vaccines that used more of the virus. Vaccine development has a large experimental component; we just have to make educated guesses and try different things and see what works. Hence, many different avenues for vaccines are being tested by different labs around the world.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-mysterious-disappearance-of-the-first-sars-virus-and-why-we-need-a-vaccine-for-the-current-one-but-didnt-for-the-other-137583

 

 

I was looking into Sars and the use of vaccine for that virus and humans, it did seem to be effective against the Sars virus itself, but it ended up causing immune system problems that was definitely alarming to see. Now onto this virus, don't they say people with immune system problems should not be taking the vaccine.... Just because they say it's safe I guess they're right.....

In general people with compromised immune systems can't have vaccines or at least have to be very careful about it.

[EOTM]

1 hour ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Ok then please show me where it shows that before Pfizer and Moderna how many Vaccines that used mRNA have been "approved" for use in humans? None. How is it not experimental? Just because they have done years of testing makes it now not experimental.... huh.....

When coke puts out a new vanilla bean chocolate cherry flavored pop is that experimental in your mind?

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

50 minutes ago, Kurgom said:

Well, immunocompromised were given priority for mRNA vaccines, because they do not carry live virus like old fashioned vaccines which they are advised against. 

 

You are a good man with good intentions, but you've been mislead and misguided. 

 

https://www.catie.ca/en/catienews/2021-05-25/encouraging-results-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-hiv-positive-people

Like I've stated I'm just skeptical still, especially with how quick the vaccine came out, and in my next response to the other poster who quoted me check that response, hence you'll see my skepticism. 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

40 minutes ago, EOTM said:

And so...they went through all 3 trials. They have also been used in trials before.

 

So not experimental. You know what an experiment is right?

Yeah I'll give you this, they claim its not experimental now because all the proper and thorough testing was done, so yes your correct because they're labeling it like this, although I disagree when a vaccine is mass produced on a scale like this using a new technology never approved before on humans to use for everyone I definitely consider that experimental still.

 

They claimed all the vaccines produced are not experimental because they all went through thorough testing, so Astrazeneca is still recommend to take? It's not experimental because they said so, so there should be no problem with taking the vaccine right? They won't be restricted from traveling at all if they received this non experimental vaccine....

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

43 minutes ago, EOTM said:

When coke puts out a new vanilla bean chocolate cherry flavored pop is that experimental in your mind?

What is your obsession with food and this vaccine , I don't know do they force you to drink it before you get a passport 

[EOTM]

Just now, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Yeah I'll give you this, they claim its not experimental now because all the proper and thorough testing was done, so yes your correct because they're labeling it like this, although I disagree when a vaccine is mass produced on a scale like this using a new technology never approved before on humans to use for everyone I definitely consider that experimental still.

 

They claimed all the vaccines produced are not experimental because they all went through thorough testing, so Astrazeneca is still recommend to take? It's not experimental because they said so, so there should be no problem with taking the vaccine right? They won't be restricted from traveling at all if they received this non experimental vaccine....

It's not a claim. They went through all 3 trials. The experiment is over after those trials. The speed of the trials wasn't expedited however the red tape between them was.

 

Here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW

 

Also you realize you've been talking about mrna and then brought up astrazeneca right?

[EOTM]

Just now, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

What is your obsession with food and this vaccine , I don't know do they force you to drink it before you get a passport 

I'm fasting today. God darn it you're right. 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Just now, EOTM said:

It's not a claim. They went through all 3 trials. The experiment is over after those trials. The speed of the trials wasn't expedited however the red tape between them was.

 

Here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW

 

Also you realize you've been talking about mrna and then brought up astrazeneca right?

Yes totally aware, so how did they pass all the test almost just as quick?

[EOTM]

4 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Yes totally aware, so how did they pass all the test almost just as quick?

You should read the article I posted. The only thing that expediated the testing was that animal trials and human trials were allowed to happen at the same time. Normally there are years between trials while the data sits and waits to be gone over. In this case everything else was put to the side and all the money was thrown at it to expediate the process but not the clinical trials.

 

Your concerns are valid but the information you have seems to be off. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by EOTM