Coronavirus outbreak

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 minute ago, EOTM said:

You should read the article I posted. The only thing that expediated the testing was that animal trials and human trials were allowed to happen at the same time. Normally there are years between trials while the data sits and waits to be gone over. In this case everything else was put to the side and all the money was thrown at it to expediate the process but not the clinical trials.

Okay then again why is AZ not being considered a good enough vaccine for people to have? Some Countries stopped using it, supposedly for traveling they may not let you travel if you have that vaccine, but why? If it's not considered experimental why is it not considered good enough?

[EOTM]

1 minute ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Okay then again why is AZ not being considered a good enough vaccine for people to have? Some Countries stopped using it, supposedly for traveling they may not let you travel if you have that vaccine, but why? If it's not considered experimental why is it not considered good enough?

Well 18 countries suspended it and most of them started using it again. The ones that didn't had already secured deals with Pfizer and Moderna. I think the only country to do that was Denmark.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

2 minutes ago, EOTM said:

Well 18 countries suspended it and most of them started using it again. The ones that didn't had already secured deals with Pfizer and Moderna. I think the only country to do that was Denmark.

And then you have the Johnson and Johnson one again not considered experimental according to them.

 

FDA adds new warning on Johnson & Johnson vaccine related to rare autoimmune disorder

 

The Food and Drug Administration announced a new warning for the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine on Monday, saying the shot has been linked to a serious but rare side effect called Guillain-Barré syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves.

 

 

About 100 preliminary reports of Guillain-Barré have been detected in vaccine recipients after the administration of 12.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the United States, according to a companion statement from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which monitors vaccine safety systems with the FDA. Of these reports, 95 were serious and required hospitalization, the FDA statement said. There was one death. Neither agency provided details about the death.

 

The cases have largely been reported about two weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many aged 50 and older, according to the CDC. Most people fully recover from Guillain-Barré.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/12/johnson-and-johnson-warning/

 

I get this is a small amount out of how many have taken the vaccine, but definitely looks like their still learning what it's doing to humans, and imo that's an experiment. 

[Kurgom]

4 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

And then you have the Johnson and Johnson one again not considered experimental according to them.

 

FDA adds new warning on Johnson & Johnson vaccine related to rare autoimmune disorder

 

The Food and Drug Administration announced a new warning for the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine on Monday, saying the shot has been linked to a serious but rare side effect called Guillain-Barré syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves.

 

 

About 100 preliminary reports of Guillain-Barré have been detected in vaccine recipients after the administration of 12.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the United States, according to a companion statement from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which monitors vaccine safety systems with the FDA. Of these reports, 95 were serious and required hospitalization, the FDA statement said. There was one death. Neither agency provided details about the death.

 

The cases have largely been reported about two weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many aged 50 and older, according to the CDC. Most people fully recover from Guillain-Barré.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/12/johnson-and-johnson-warning/

 

I get this is a small amount out of how many have taken the vaccine, but definitely looks like their still learning what it's doing to humans, and imo that's an experiment. 

Smallpox vaccination carries some serious risks: approximately one in 1 million primary vaccinees and one in 4 million revaccinees will die from adverse vaccine reactions. The most serious side effects of smallpox vaccine include progressive vaccinia, postvaccinial central nervous system disease, and eczema vaccinatum. Every vaccine in history has had some adverse reaction on a poor unlucky individual with a unique biology. Does that mean we shouldn't have gotten rid of polio and smallpox?

 

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0901/p889.html

[NewbieCanuckFan]

30 minutes ago, EOTM said:

Well 18 countries suspended it and most of them started using it again. The ones that didn't had already secured deals with Pfizer and Moderna. I think the only country to do that was Denmark.

“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.“

(Marcellus, act 1 scene 4)

 

[coho8888]

58 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Like I've stated I'm just skeptical still, especially with how quick the vaccine came out, and in my next response to the other poster who quoted me check that response, hence you'll see my skepticism. 

People that are worried about long term effects don't really understand how modern vaccines work.  You are more likely to get long term health issues from eating too much tuna than what the vaccines will give you.  But even if you feel the way you do, what is the alternative to not taking them?  Posters come on here all the time complaining about restrictions causing depression, vaccines that they think are not thoroughly tested and yet none have provided any viable solutions.

 

Can you imagine if we didn't have any vaccines ready?  With these variants circulating?  If you think the restrictions were tough before, I'd hate to see what they would be if there were no vaccines available. 

[coho8888]

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, EOTM said:

It's not a claim. They went through all 3 trials. The experiment is over after those trials. The speed of the trials wasn't expedited however the red tape between them was.

This is something people seem to neglect.

 

Most vaccines/drugs for treatments go through 3 major trials.  Each trial due to red tape can take upwards of 2-5 years.  Remove that red tape it can be done in under a year or so.

 

It's like getting permits for your house to do any foundation, electrical and mechanical work.  You need a geotechnical survey, a permit to add electrical.  A permit to add any plumbing.  Changing the size of your furnace or forced air unit?  Well now you need a permit and inspection to ensure you're not forcing too much air through too small of duct work.  Oh you're adding a window or new patio?  Ya, permit needed now too.

 

Tale away all those permits and you can reno a house in under 2 weeks

[thedestroyerofworlds]

To illustrate why the vaccines were in arms so quickly. 

 

Also, at every step there is red tape from both the government and the corporations.  That was reduced/eliminated. 

 

Also, they had no trouble getting tens of thousands of volunteers for the phased trials along with large numbers of locations to conduct the trials.  Again, something that takes time under normal conditions. 

 

Finally, there was an extremely high likelihood of people being exposed to the virus during the trials.  A number of placebo recipients in thr Moderna trials died of Covid-19.   This is something that is difficult, if not impossible to achieve under normal conditions. 

 

All of this led to the quickness of getting jabs in arms.

 

 

I will add that mRNA treatments/vaccines were inevitable in the next couple years.  Covid-19 just so happened to come along when the final hurdles were being crossed. 

[4petesake]

14 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

 

 

 

Excellent and informative video, thanks for posting.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Here is an article on mRNA vaccines from 2018.  Just to illustrate that these mRNA Covid vaccines didn't just come out of nowhere.  If you think they did, please stop.

 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology

[Russ]

8 hours ago, Warhippy said:

This is something people seem to neglect.

 

Most vaccines/drugs for treatments go through 3 major trials.  Each trial due to red tape can take upwards of 2-5 years.  Remove that red tape it can be done in under a year or so.

 

It's like getting permits for your house to do any foundation, electrical and mechanical work.  You need a geotechnical survey, a permit to add electrical.  A permit to add any plumbing.  Changing the size of your furnace or forced air unit?  Well now you need a permit and inspection to ensure you're not forcing too much air through too small of duct work.  Oh you're adding a window or new patio?  Ya, permit needed now too.

 

Tale away all those permits and you can reno a house in under 2 weeks

 

This is what I think of every time I know a farmer that says "crap wonder if I need a permit?"

 

Thats a good way to put it though, they bumped the permits to the front of the line as opposed to letting them take forever to get this vaccine to market.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Russ

[JM_]

8 hours ago, Warhippy said:

This is something people seem to neglect.

 

Most vaccines/drugs for treatments go through 3 major trials.  Each trial due to red tape can take upwards of 2-5 years.  Remove that red tape it can be done in under a year or so.

 

It's like getting permits for your house to do any foundation, electrical and mechanical work.  You need a geotechnical survey, a permit to add electrical.  A permit to add any plumbing.  Changing the size of your furnace or forced air unit?  Well now you need a permit and inspection to ensure you're not forcing too much air through too small of duct work.  Oh you're adding a window or new patio?  Ya, permit needed now too.

 

Tale away all those permits and you can reno a house in under 2 weeks

pretty close analogy, but the procedure for drugs and medical devices was the same. The biggest change was accelerated review of your file. Submissions take years in large part because your file is usually at the bottom of a big pile. For covid product they bumped everything else and gave that immediate attention. 

 

The other part was they allowed importers to speed up the process of bringing in devices that were not under licence to speed things up (e.g., masks).

 

But for both you still needed to provide the critical safety information, that part was not skipped. 

 

Just incase anyone was thinking acceleration or removal of red tape meant lessening of safety standards, which it did not.

 

[EOTM]

10 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

And then you have the Johnson and Johnson one again not considered experimental according to them.

 

FDA adds new warning on Johnson & Johnson vaccine related to rare autoimmune disorder

 

The Food and Drug Administration announced a new warning for the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine on Monday, saying the shot has been linked to a serious but rare side effect called Guillain-Barré syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves.

 

 

About 100 preliminary reports of Guillain-Barré have been detected in vaccine recipients after the administration of 12.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the United States, according to a companion statement from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which monitors vaccine safety systems with the FDA. Of these reports, 95 were serious and required hospitalization, the FDA statement said. There was one death. Neither agency provided details about the death.

 

The cases have largely been reported about two weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many aged 50 and older, according to the CDC. Most people fully recover from Guillain-Barré.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/12/johnson-and-johnson-warning/

 

I get this is a small amount out of how many have taken the vaccine, but definitely looks like their still learning what it's doing to humans, and imo that's an experiment. 

Your opinion is incorrect and doesn't matter. This is common amongst almost any drug that comes out.

 

Everything you've said seems like a talking point that come right from the anti xax industry but it's all pretty easily explained of proven wrong.

Edited August 8, 2021 by EOTM

[stawns]

9 hours ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Here is an article on mRNA vaccines from 2018.  Just to illustrate that these mRNA Covid vaccines didn't just come out of nowhere.  If you think they did, please stop.

 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology

I wonder how many of these anti vax nutjobs would refuse an mRNA vax for cancer?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

I wonder how many of these anti vax nutjobs would refuse an mRNA vax for cancer?

probably a lot. But they'd likely be denying it for their kids. 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[Fanuck]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I wonder how many of these anti vax nutjobs would refuse an mRNA vax for cancer?

Measles,  Chicken Pox, Polio, Tetanus, Mumps, etc....all mostly eradicated in our society due to vaccines.  Expose these idiots to some of these viruses and see how fast they change their minds about vaccination. 

[-DLC-]

Here is some info on how these vaccines really weren't "rushed through".  Not sure that we know more than the teams of stem cell microbiologists, etc. and I'd prefer that some of the counter arguments also have credible sources that are posted.  Not random quotes that may have originated from a 17 year old girl in her bedroom on Twitter.
 

 

https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/52424.html

 

Quote

The story involves hundreds of people all over the world and highlights the importance of fundamental and applied research. Advancements in our understanding of messenger RNA (mRNA) and its potential for use in medicines, along with the creation of new technologies over the last 30 years, made these vaccines possible. Recent research on coronaviruses, in particular, made these vaccines effective.

 

Quote

Decades of progress

This “knowledge base” is exactly what it sounds like: it’s a foundation of knowledge that has been built through hard work. Every surprising study, every failed experiment, every paper published—in the world of science, these are all small steps of progress. And when it comes to mRNA, researchers have been taking these steps for decades.

The timeline provides a few of their highlights.

 

1980s

Dr. Pieter Cullis and his team at the University of British Columbia (UBC) study lipids. This fundamental research was designed to better understand how lipids work.

1990s

Dr. Katalin Karikó, a researcher at the University of Pennsylvania in the United States, spends a decade studying RNA to unlock its potential for use in medicine.

1995

Dr. Pieter Cullis and his team, including Dr. Jeffery Wheeler, turn their attention to using lipid nanoparticles in medicine, in particular for gene therapy drugs that use nucleic acids (like RNA).

The lipid nanoparticles form a protective bubble around the medicine so that it can be delivered to cells safely and effectively.

2005

Dr. Katalin Karikó and Dr. Drew Weissman publish scientific papers about their breakthrough: They figured out how to make synthetic RNA safe for injection into cells.

This is a huge step forward for developing RNA-based medicines.

2007+

Dr. Derrick Rossi, a Canadian stem cell biologist, starts his lab at Harvard Medical School in 2007.

He sets out to build on the work of Drs. Karikó and Weissman, as well as the work of stem cell researcher Dr. Shinya Yamanaka.

In 2009, his lab uses mRNA to make adult cells function like embryonic stem cells. This big news leads to the creation of Moderna in 2010.

2010s

Dr. Pieter Cullis and his team begin working with Dr. Drew Weissman and Dr. Katalin Karikó on vaccines that could use mRNA + lipid nanoparticles. This leads to collaborations with BioNTech and Pfizer.

2014+

Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett, a researcher with the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the United States, begins work on coronavirus biology and vaccine development.

The world had already seen two coronavirus outbreaks with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) in 2003 and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) in 2012.

Dr. Corbett and colleagues study these coronaviruses, including the signature “spike protein” and the role it could play in vaccine development.

This leads to collaborations between the NIH and Moderna.

December 2019

New illness reported in Wuhan, China.

January 2020

Complete genetic sequence of novel coronavirus published and shared with scientists around the world.

January 2020+

Originally focused on MERS, Dr. Corbett’s team (under the direction of Dr. Barney Graham at the NIH’s Vaccine Research Centre) and Moderna pivot quickly to develop a COVID-19 vaccine using mRNA.

Originally focused on Zika and influenza, Drs. Cullis, Weissman, and Karikó halt other projects to focus on SARS-CoV-2 and develop a COVID-19 vaccine using mRNA and lipid nanoparticles.

 

[-DLC-]

11 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

And then you have the Johnson and Johnson one again not considered experimental according to them.

 

FDA adds new warning on Johnson & Johnson vaccine related to rare autoimmune disorder

 

The Food and Drug Administration announced a new warning for the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine on Monday, saying the shot has been linked to a serious but rare side effect called Guillain-Barré syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves.

 

 

About 1. 100 preliminary reports of Guillain-Barré have been detected in vaccine recipients after the administration of 12.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in the United States, according to a companion statement from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which monitors vaccine safety systems with the FDA. Of these reports, 95 were serious and required hospitalization, the FDA statement said. There was one death. Neither agency provided details about the death.

 

The cases have largely been reported about two weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many aged 50 and older, according to the CDC. Most people fully recover from Guillain-Barré.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/12/johnson-and-johnson-warning/

 

2. I get this is a small amount out of how many have taken the vaccine, but definitely looks like their still learning what it's doing to humans, and imo that's an experiment. 

So you're waiting for perfection?

 

I'll address the parts in red:

 

1.  NO vaccine comes without some degree of risk....but look at the odds in comparison to those who aren't vaccinated and what they may face.   This variant is exploding and shows a need to get it under control.  Vaccines offer a chance in that.

 

2.  So, in fairness, how about you address (at some point) the "risk" involved for those NOT getting vaccinated?  We're still "learning" about the long term effects from the virus but, from what we've seen at initial onset, it's kind of scary.  To ignore that you're at great risk of contracting a virus that still isn't fully understood because you fear a vaccination that scientists were involved with creating is head in the sand for me.  People rolling the dice with COVID are facing many more unknowns down the road.
 

Quote

Multiorgan effects can affect most, if not all, body systems, including heart, lung, kidney, skin, and brain functions. Autoimmune conditions happen when your immune system attacks healthy cells in your body by mistake, causing inflammation (painful swelling) or tissue damage in the affected parts of the body.

While it is very rare, some people, mostly children, experience multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS) during or immediately after a COVID-19 infection. MIS is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed. MIS can lead to post-COVID conditions if a person continues to experience multiorgan effects or other symptoms.

It's like playing a game of Russian roulette and sure, there are some concerns but if you can protect yourself and others from contracting a virus with the capability of mutating and the unknowns that come with that "novel corona" virus (people act like they know all about it), I feel ok with the 1 in 128,000 chance compared to one that is TBD.  And it's all about the numbers....if any of us stand a chance against this it's going to take a united effort.  Those "scared" to participate put us all at risk, not just themselves.

 

The fear involved should be shared on both sides, not just those scared of scientific responses (vaccines) against a very "unknown" and rapidly spreading virus.

 

Ventilation doesn't look fun (either).  Spreading this to family/others - there's a responsibility to look beyond "self" and protect others if we can.  Especially those WITH comprised immunity.

 

[-DLC-]

12 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Like I've stated I'm just skeptical still, especially with how quick the vaccine came out, and in my next response to the other poster who quoted me check that response, hence you'll see my skepticism. 

The one thing I'd like you to confirm (I'm looking back, perhaps you have but I can't see it) is - where is your information coming from?  What are the sources?

 

Matters.