Coronavirus outbreak

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, gurn said:

I'm glad they didn't; he would have to come back to Canada. Way things are going, he could have become the next PPC leader.

He renounced his citizenship and is inadmissable to Canada due to his violation of our hate speech laws.

[Cerridwen]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 

 

re: vaccines.

Gad. I just love Claire's comments. I followed her on Twitter during the US presidency we don't talk about and clips of her commentary on certain things during the presidency-that-shall-not-be-uttered-aloud. She is hilariously funny at times and bitingly witty at others while calling things out for exactly what they are.

(Even if it IS a typo!! )

[Sean Monahan]

I was all set to go watch the Canucks and Oilers season opener in Edmonton on the 13th followed by the BoA on the 16th- beyond excited, really it was gonna be my first “event” since covid hit last year (I guess my last event was the Flames/Canucks in Vancouver February ~10ish of last year) plus I was gonna get to see one of my best buddies whom I rarely see, on account of him living in Edmonton. He texted me today saying that they’re expecting a stay at home order to be announced on Friday, effective October 4th. 
 

If these stupid anti-vax pricks ruin my trip I’m gonna be so god dam mad. Beyond mad. Beyond comprehension. Alberta will be set ablaze with fire and fury the likes of which the world has never seen. 

[4petesake]

4 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

I was all set to go watch the Canucks and Oilers season opener in Edmonton on the 13th followed by the BoA on the 16th- beyond excited, really it was gonna be my first “event” since covid hit last year (I guess my last event was the Flames/Canucks in Vancouver February ~10ish of last year) plus I was gonna get to see one of my best buddies whom I rarely see, on account of him living in Edmonton. He texted me today saying that they’re expecting a stay at home order to be announced on Friday, effective October 4th. 
 

If these stupid anti-vax pricks ruin my trip I’m gonna be so god dam mad. Beyond mad. Beyond comprehension. Alberta will be set ablaze with fire and fury the likes of which the world has never seen. 

 

[bishopshodan]

6 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

That pizza is still good, rooftop dining. 

[Jaimito]

 

 

[4petesake]

10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

That pizza is still good, rooftop dining. 

“We kindly request that people stop throwing pizzas on our roof.”

[MikeBossy]

news out of Albertabama continues to be grim folks  34 deaths in one day is inexcuable!

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-reports-34-covid-19-deaths-highest-number-since-january-1.6194350

 

 

Alberta reports 34 COVID-19 deaths, highest number since January

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Alberta Premier asks federal government for doses of one-shot J&J vaccine

CBC News · Posted: Sep 29, 2021 4:51 PM MT | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

 

This Dec. 2, 2020 photo shows vials of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine in the United States. Alberta Premier Jason Kenney requested doses of the vaccine from the federal government to be administered in the province. ( Johnson & Johnson/The Associated Press)

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Alberta reported 34 deaths from COVID-19 on Wednesday — among the highest ever announced in a single day in the province.

Most of the deaths did not occur in the past 24 hours because there can be a delay in reporting them. According to Alberta Health, the day with the most deaths from COVID-19 was Jan. 2, when there were 30.

 

The 34 deaths announced Wednesday ranged in age from people in their 40s, to Albertans in their 90s. All health zones in the province reported new COVID-19 deaths Wednesday. 

The province recorded 1,682 new cases of COVID-19 on 15,025 tests, with a positivity rate around 11.46 per cent.

There are currently 1,084 people in hospital with COVID, including 268 in ICU. Of the 268 in ICU, 90.6 per cent are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

Active cases declined Wednesday by 207 to 20,306 — still by far the highest in the country. Here's how active cases break down across the province: 

• Edmonton zone: 5,198
• Calgary zone: 4,884
• Central zone: 4,061
• North zone: 3,851
• South zone: 2,294
• Unknown: 18

Alberta Premier Jason Kenney and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had a 20-minute phone conversation Wednesday, according to a news release from the province.

The two discussed the current wave of COVID-19 cases and options for federal support, including health-care resources.

• Alberta regulator toughens stance against doctors who spread misinformation about COVID-19

The news release notes that Kenney asked the federal government for doses of the single-shot Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine, "indicating that Albertans in areas of low vaccine uptake have said they are waiting for [Johnson & Johnson] doses to be made available."

Trudeau affirmed Alberta's request for 20,000 doses and said the federal government would help. No doses of Johnson & Johnson have been administered in Canada 

Kenney also asked the Prime Minister about making rapid antigen tests available to employers across the economy, according to the release.

According the province's latest update, 83.4 per cent of the province's eligible population has had at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, while 74.2 per cent have had both. About 63.1 per cent of the province's total population has had two doses of vaccine. 

[Canuck Surfer]

Melbourne news story;

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, MikeBossy said:

news out of Albertabama continues to be grim folks  34 deaths in one day is inexcuable!

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-reports-34-covid-19-deaths-highest-number-since-january-1.6194350

 

 

Alberta reports 34 COVID-19 deaths, highest number since January

Social Sharing

• Facebook

• Twitter

• Email

• Reddit

• LinkedIn

Alberta Premier asks federal government for doses of one-shot J&J vaccine

CBC News · Posted: Sep 29, 2021 4:51 PM MT | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

 

This Dec. 2, 2020 photo shows vials of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine in the United States. Alberta Premier Jason Kenney requested doses of the vaccine from the federal government to be administered in the province. ( Johnson & Johnson/The Associated Press)

137

comments

Alberta reported 34 deaths from COVID-19 on Wednesday — among the highest ever announced in a single day in the province.

Most of the deaths did not occur in the past 24 hours because there can be a delay in reporting them. According to Alberta Health, the day with the most deaths from COVID-19 was Jan. 2, when there were 30.

 

The 34 deaths announced Wednesday ranged in age from people in their 40s, to Albertans in their 90s. All health zones in the province reported new COVID-19 deaths Wednesday. 

The province recorded 1,682 new cases of COVID-19 on 15,025 tests, with a positivity rate around 11.46 per cent.

There are currently 1,084 people in hospital with COVID, including 268 in ICU. Of the 268 in ICU, 90.6 per cent are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

Active cases declined Wednesday by 207 to 20,306 — still by far the highest in the country. Here's how active cases break down across the province: 

• Edmonton zone: 5,198
• Calgary zone: 4,884
• Central zone: 4,061
• North zone: 3,851
• South zone: 2,294
• Unknown: 18

Alberta Premier Jason Kenney and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had a 20-minute phone conversation Wednesday, according to a news release from the province.

The two discussed the current wave of COVID-19 cases and options for federal support, including health-care resources.

• Alberta regulator toughens stance against doctors who spread misinformation about COVID-19

The news release notes that Kenney asked the federal government for doses of the single-shot Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine, "indicating that Albertans in areas of low vaccine uptake have said they are waiting for [Johnson & Johnson] doses to be made available."

Trudeau affirmed Alberta's request for 20,000 doses and said the federal government would help. No doses of Johnson & Johnson have been administered in Canada 

Kenney also asked the Prime Minister about making rapid antigen tests available to employers across the economy, according to the release.

According the province's latest update, 83.4 per cent of the province's eligible population has had at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, while 74.2 per cent have had both. About 63.1 per cent of the province's total population has had two doses of vaccine. 

So these idiots are waiting for a less effective vaccine?  

[nuckin_futz]

1 hour ago, MikeBossy said:

news out of Albertabama continues to be grim folks  34 deaths in one day is inexcuable!

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-reports-34-covid-19-deaths-highest-number-since-january-1.6194350

 

 

Alberta reports 34 COVID-19 deaths, highest number since January

If 34 Albertans died in a terrorist attack all Hell would break loose. The lack of response or acknowledgement from government is a gross injustice. 

 

Albertans your government has failed you. You're on your own.

[flat land fish]

Albertans failed themselves, likely the vast majority of those 34 were unvaccinated.  Health restrictions came off and individual citizens still had choice to vaccinate, keep their social circle small and wear masks in high traffic areas.  Covid is not going away so we need to learn to live with it.  Other jurisdictions will have delta outbreaks this winter.   Most critically we need a very high vaccination rate to keep hospitals treating non covid patients so those who have done their part can get the care they deserve.

[Smashian Kassian]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:29 AM, stawns said:

Sorry, it's one small segment of society who are making the conscious decision to divide themselves off from the vast majority of society........there is no "stark" divide in our country.  A huge chunk of us are united and pulling in the same direction and one small segment actively trying to derail the rest of us?  Should we feel empathy for their deliberate attempt to create chaos?  Not from me.

 

If it comes down to having to decide who gets care and who doesn't, then those who wilfully choose to not listen to science I say

 

 

 

 

Sorry, not sorry

 

On 9/23/2021 at 7:37 AM, JM_ said:

its like having a teen who does something dumb, and says you're dividing the family if you punish them 

 

Well then what are we going to do about these people if its a minority that are the problem? They are very obviously the enemy of society. Why not get a record of who isn't vaccinated and send the police in after them - and either forcibly vaccinate them against their will or get rid of them.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[Hamhuis Hip Check]

7 hours ago, Mj2345 said:

Michael Porter Jr of the Denver Nuggets is not comfortsble getting the vaccine, Nuggets should have required him to get vaccinated before he signed that shiny new 5 year $207 million deal the other day.

I definitely would have wanted that nugget of information before i signed him to that deal

[Smashian Kassian]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:24 AM, DrJockitch said:

These variants aren’t something that just occurs once. Anywhere virus is replicating at high rates is at risk. The country names were just where they were first identified, they can occur spontaneously anywhere. 
This is a misunderstanding that it only occurs once in whatever country and that travel bans will stop it from occurring in your country. Best way to prevent re-occurrences of variants and development of new variants is to reduce viral replication. Only model for that is immunization and social distancing. Anytime there is a new variant of concern though lockdowns and travel restrictions are important but by the time  it is identified, the cat is usually out of the bag. 
So unimmunized are a reserve for the development and spread of variants, not just the spread. 

 

Why were governments around the world allowing travel, taking half measures, and willingly allowing the virus to replicate? We are talking about the worlds top experts/scientists - we all agree these people know what they are dealing with. With a plague that's wiping out 10% of the population you'd think the first thing authorities would do is lock down the borders to keep residents of the countries as safe as possible. Aswell as (and more importantly) minimize replication for not only that country but the entire world...? (Maybe they just didn't know?)

 

Don't viruses naturally replicate (in some form) at higher rates against evolutionary pressure, so that they are able to stay alive? (With the result being more contagious but less deadly). Whats the likely hood of the coronavirus becoming more deadly as it replicates as opposed to less deadly? 

 

And lastly we know naturally immunity doesn't work in this case, that's basically a myth, so what do you think we should do about the anti-vaxxers that continue to kill hundreds of thousands? 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[DrJockitch]

5 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Why were governments around the world allowing travel, taking half measures, and willingly allowing the virus to replicate? We are talking about the worlds top experts/scientists - we all agree these people know what they are dealing with. With a plague that's wiping out 10% of the population you'd think the first thing authorities would do is lock down the borders to keep residents of the countries as safe as possible. Aswell as (and more importantly) minimize replication for not only that country but the entire world...? (Maybe they just didn't know?)

 

Don't viruses naturally replicate (in some form) at higher rates against evolutionary pressure, so that they are able to stay alive? (With the result being more contagious but less deadly). Whats the likely hood of the coronavirus becoming more deadly as it replicates as opposed to less deadly? 

 

And lastly we know naturally immunity doesn't work in this case, that's basically a myth, so what do you think we should do about the anti-vaxxers that continue to kill hundreds of thousands? 

I can't answer as to why governments do things.  Some of it is the interconnectivity of supply chains.  Places like Florida down play and deny everything because of their dependance on tourism and snowbirds.  The rest is politics and not my field.

 

It isn't replication or even mutation that is increasing.  Mutation mostly comes from errors in replication and the enzymes that replicate DNA or RNA make errors at a pretty predictable rate.  Most are silent or cause major issues and disappear.  What changes though is selective pressures and these can lead to areas of rapid change.  In theory this includes the development of escape variants like Delta but that doesn't change for immunized or unimmunized who have had the virus.  In general viruses will drift to more contagious and less deadly.  Delta is nasty because it is more infectious and more deadly but the generally low mortality rate of COVID takes a lot of the selective pressure in terms of fatality off, point one above about global travel also mitigates this selective pressure somewhat.  When a virus is replicating in a village, if it kills everyone quickly the virus burns out.  In a planet of seven billion people that jet all over the place it just doesn't get isolated, it keeps finding new populations to divide in and so it can keep going even if it is incrementally more deadly.

 

"Natural immunity" is something a lot of people tout and often mis-state the value of.  It has value, it just has been shown in this case to have less value than immunization.  Suggestions from Israel show that it is about half as effective as the Pfizer vaccine.  Often get the questions of why don't they just do the antibody test to see if I am immune.  The answer is that we don't know what level of antibodies confer immunity so all that the question answers is have I been exposed to COVID at some point.  

 

What to do about anti-vaxxers, I don't know.  My experience has been that the reasons are multifactorial.  A lot of the time it is people who feel powerless because of past trauma or other life issues are trying to regain control of their lives and have found a similar angry group of people on-line.  Much like the Q silliness or almost anything to do with Trump, the aggrieved come together in an echo-chamber and amplify their perceived sleights into an angry milieux of conspiracy theories.  There are a few that have reasonable if misguided concerns that sometimes can be discussed rationally and then a number that are just assholes.  

[JM_]

6 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

Well then what are we going to do about these people if its a minority that are the problem? They are very obviously the enemy of society. Why not get a record of who isn't vaccinated and send the police in after them - and either forcibly vaccinate them against their will or get rid of them.

they are the problem. That isn't an opinion - look at who is filling the hospitals now.

 

You don't want the shot? fine don't take it. But they should not be allowed into places that other vaccinated people are in. You don't need any of those hysterics, just have them live with their choice.

 

And btw we already do know who they are.

[JM_]

47 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

 

What to do about anti-vaxxers, I don't know. 

you isolate from them as much as possible. The problem is they want all of us to live with their choice. If they don't want it, that's their right, even if its crippling healthcare systems that seems to be what society will put up with.

 

Personally I'm tired of seeing these strange lines between essential and non-essential, we just need to require a passport for anything public. They seem to be working a bit but anti-vaxers still have too much freedom to infect themselves and others. We actually need to protect these people from themselves.

[Alflives]

Big study out of Oxford showing why viral spread of Covid is far more reduced in vaccinated populations than non vaccinated.

 

“Vaccination […] reduces virus shedding time, prevents symptomatic infection, & the presence of an immune response elicited by the vaccines will ultimately suppress the viable virus.”

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v1

[Gurn]

More about "natural" immunity:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/fact-check-no-natural-immunity-doesn-t-replace-vaccination-experts-say/ar-AAOYjEK?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

 

Natural immunity will not protect you against COVID-19 as well as an mRNA vaccine, according to both experts and the research.

 

Multiple anti-vaccine groups touted natural immunity as a viable alternative to getting vaccinated, but experts say the natural immunity is unreliable — especially when there’s a safe and effective vaccine out there.

Even if you've already had COVID, you should still get vaccinated, doctors say.

"The idea of natural immunity, people are kind of taking that and running with it, thinking, 'I don't need to get vaccinated.' That's not true, either," said Dr. Sumon Chakrabarti.

“Natural immunity does certainly protect you, but we don't know to what extent."

Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19 — and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccine.

When you get sick and, eventually, beat a virus, your body learns about the virus that made you sick — so you can ideally avoid being infected again in the future.

“Our immune systems have evolved over millions and millions of years to provide us with lasting immunity from infections that we encounter early in life,” said Dr. Matthew Miller, assistant dean at McMaster University’s department of biochemistry and biomedical sciences.

When Canadians caught COVID-19, the same thing happened — to a point.

Provided they survive the illness, patients generally emerge with some protection against COVID-19. That’s why Chakrabarti said there is indeed a “nugget of truth” to the idea that natural immunity can help keep people a bit safer from the virus.

But the level of protection Canadians can get from catching COVID is inconsistent.

“There's a huge amount of variability in the strength of immunity that's conferred by natural infection,” said Miller.

“We know, for example, that people who have very mild or asymptomatic cases have much lower levels of immunity than people who have had more symptomatic or severe infections.”

Read more: Canadian researchers find COVID-19 antibodies last for months, likely years

By contrast, the mRNA vaccines offer a high level of protection against severe outcomes from COVID-19 — and they do it consistently.

“The people who are arguing for natural immunity (over) vaccine-elicited immunity often do so with the assumption that natural immunity is superior,” Miller said.

“And in the context of COVID-19, and especially in comparison to our COVID mRNA vaccines, there's just not strong evidence that that's the case.”

In fact, there’s some research that suggests that isn’t the case.

One study published on June 30 in Science Translational Medicine found people who were fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine had antibodies that were more broadly protective against variants than the ones produced by COVID-19 patients.

Video: Health Matters: Mothers turning to breast milk to protect children too young for COVID-19 vaccines

The CDC published similar findings. Among Kentucky residents who caught COVID during 2020, the ones that were unvaccinated were more than two times more likely to be re-infected compared to the residents who were fully vaccinated.

On top of that, COVID-19 infection can weaken your immune response, according to a June study published by the University of Oxford, which could put you at higher risk of catching a variant of COVID-19.

Compared with fully vaccinated people, unvaccinated individuals are also seven times more likely to catch COVID-19, 25 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 60 times more likely to be in the ICU due to the disease, according to a new report from the Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table.

However, if you still get your jab after having recovered from COVID, Miller said something interesting can happen: an even higher level of immunity reportedly takes root.

"There's really excellent evidence now that people who have had a prior infection and are then vaccinated are the best protected of all," said Miller.

In fact, they may be able to achieve that level of protection with just one jab, studies published in the New York Times suggested. Chakrabarti agreed.

"People who have gotten infected, the evidence actually shows, if you get a single dose of the vaccine after that, that's actually very robust immunity," he said.

Natural immunity is also a dangerous thing to pursue, doctors warned.

In Alberta, a number of residents ended up in the ICU after reportedly having a COVID party in an intentional bid to contract COVID-19 and gain antibodies against the virus.

“By necessity, to get to immunity, you first have to go through the process of infection,” Miller said.

“And in the context of COVID-19, obviously, those infections can be very severe and sometimes fatal.”

 

Chakrabarti agreed with Miller.

“To intentionally expose yourself if you haven't been, that's not advisable, given that there's a risk of you getting ill, there's a risk of other people getting ill,” he said.

Intentionally exposing yourself to COVID-19 at a party, Chakrabarti added, “can result in significant spill over into the community.”

“When you're in...a region that has a very, very stretched hospital capacity, and now you have one of many types of events where multiple people get sick and potentially hospitalized, it just adds to the strain,” he said.

Some people might not even know that they have an underlying condition, too, which Miller said can put them at serious risk if they catch COVID-19.

“They assume they're low risk, but then get infected and some underlying condition that they weren't aware of before then surfaces and they wind up on life support or in the worst case scenario, dead,” he said.

“It's rolling the dice in a way that's really irresponsible at an individual level and then even more irresponsible at the community level.”

And while Chakrabarti says we should make sure we aren’t “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” when it comes to the potential benefits of natural immunity, it’s also important to keep those benefits in perspective.

“This should not be a topic that is controversial just because there are individuals who are...distorting the message,” he said.

“We should be able to talk about these very important infectious disease issues for what they are: it's a scientific concept that has implications.”

Miller agreed that there is “truth” to the fact that “natural immunity is immunity and we can be protected by it.”

“But it's not a wise strategy to achieve immunity by choice.”