Coronavirus outbreak

[johngould21]

6 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Because the government is doing it to make headlines.

 

The people who haven’t gotten the vaccine are already dug in. You think this will make a difference at this point?

Just like the government and governments around the globe caused this virus?

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, EOTM said:

I don't believe you are eligible for either if you quit or are fired with cause.

Everyone is entitled to social assistance.

 

The EI argument is that if the rules changed during their employment was it their fault they got fired? Assuming we are actually giving people the choice to not get vaccinated.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

And I don’t think this measure will move the needle at all.

 

Honestly if being fired isn’t enough, and having your movement and ability to enjoy things in society isn’t enough. Somehow this will?

 

Sadly ignorant people are often stubborn. We have to accept that unless you’re going to physically force these people to get vaccinated we’re never going to reach 100%. If that’s the strategy they’re hoping for I’m a little concerned.

so what do we do with a guy like this, that has to learn the hard way? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/anti-vaccine-fort-st-john-pregnant-wife-1.6222325

 

I feel sorry for him, but that doesn't mean I want to work beside him, or have my taxes pay for his decision any more than they already are.

 

Other than being hit with very hard consequences, what can change their minds?

[johngould21]

The fact that most of these people who won't get vaccinated who work in healthcare, police, fire departments, schools is even more alarming. As far as I'm concerned, fire the lot of them.

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

so what do we do with a guy like this, that has to learn the hard way? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/anti-vaccine-fort-st-john-pregnant-wife-1.6222325

 

I feel sorry for him, but that doesn't mean I want to work beside him, or have my taxes pay for his decision any more than they already are.

 

Other than being hit with very hard consequences, what can change their minds?

Dying from COVID?

 

I honestly think there’s a big group of people that simply won’t change their minds. The government should have always accounted for these people.

 

You’re never going to reach 100% of people volunteering to do anything. 
 

Edited October 23, 2021 by DeNiro

[JM_]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

Dying from COVID?

 

I honestly think there’s a big group of people that simply won’t change their minds. The government should have always accounted for these people.

 

You’re never going to reach out 100% of people volunteering to do anything. 

But doesn't this apply to a lot of things? we know there will always be drunk drivers, but we don't give up on trying to get to zero tolerance.

 

This EI issue will only apply to a very small number of people, and from my pov, is a good thing. If it even gets a handful of these people to go get vaccinated its worth it if it saves one family like buddies in the CBC story.

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

But doesn't this apply to a lot of things? we know there will always be drunk drivers, but we don't give up on trying to get to zero tolerance.

 

This EI issue will only apply to a very small number of people, and from my pov, is a good thing. If it even gets a handful of these people to go get vaccinated its worth it if it saves one family like buddies in the CBC story.

They’ve had more than enough time and reason to get vaccinated. The pandemic will be over before you convince some of these people.

 

I think it’s time to adjust the strategy if these are the only measures they have left.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

They’ve had more than enough time and reason to get vaccinated. The pandemic will be over before you convince some of these people.

 

I think it’s time to adjust the strategy if these are the only measures they have left.

Maybe lockdown for them.  Only be able to leave the home for specific reasons.  Naw, that's too far.  Let's just close our eyes and hope it goes away.

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-europe-health-austria-5bd2969df1d3f5e07f766ba8227a43c6

Austrian chancellor threatens lockdown for unvaccinated

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

They’ve had more than enough time and reason to get vaccinated. The pandemic will be over before you convince some of these people.

 

I think it’s time to adjust the strategy if these are the only measures they have left.

well, we are kind of getting into the extreme ends of this. I'm not sure how many more tools are in the box.

 

(btw. thanks for having a decent discussion).

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Maybe lockdown for them.  Only be able to leave the home for specific reasons.  Naw, that's too far.  Let's just close our eyes and hope it goes away.

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-europe-health-austria-5bd2969df1d3f5e07f766ba8227a43c6

Austrian chancellor threatens lockdown for unvaccinated

And how do you lock people down in their homes when they no longer have one?

 

If you’re not working and paying your mortgage or rent your place goes bye bye.
 

How does this strategy make sense?

[4petesake]

47 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I get that, its a legitimate concern. Its my understanding that an employer can change duties and requirements of your job at any time, as long as its not discriminatory (under the Charter). Just like they can fire you at any time with no cause as long as you get your severance.

 

Rules change all the time for everyone, employers and employees. Terms and conditions are updated regularly for everything in life. As an employer I was forced to adjust to every new edict that came down the pipeline whether it was health and safety, transportation, storage of hazardous materials, etc. I could either abide by the new rules or be shut down. There came a time when safety boots and hearing and eye protection rules were brought in. Employees were now required to follow the new rules as a term of employment or be terminated. Don’t like wearing safety glasses? Goodbye, go find a job where they aren’t required.

[Warhippy]

I feel as though stripping the rights of employment insurance that many have paid in to is a seriously dangerous precedent as it leaves the door wide open for targeted clawbacks of further taxpayer funded programs such as pensions, workers compensations, education and more.

 

I 100% agree that people refusing to do the barest of minimums, who are continuing to perpetuate this virus via their selfishness should be called out and taken to task.  But I am not sure I agree wth this level of government interference because the precedent; once set is immutable and on the records.

 

Who would be there to stop a party like the PPC, Conservatives etc from clawing back pensions, native funding, education transfers or further EI and workers compensatory funds under the guise of "balancing the budget in the name of national security" ?

 

Don't think for a second that one this is on the table it won't happen if the other side has a majority.

[Jaimito]

A man from northern B.C. is speaking out to urge vaccination against COVID-19 as his pregnant wife clings to life in a hospital ICU some 1,200 kilometres from home.

 

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/unvaccinated-pregnant-woman-from-northern-b-c-clings-to-life-in-covid-19-icu-1.5635306

 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

53 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

And how do you lock people down in their homes when they no longer have one?

 

If you’re not working and paying your mortgage or rent your place goes bye bye.
 

How does this strategy make sense?

How does closing our eyes and hoping this goes away make sense?

 

Vintage has been regularly posting the BC Covid updates here.  From them:

 

The majority of cases are unvaccinated.

The majority of hospitalizations are unvaccinated.  All indications are that the overwhelming majority of ICU cases are unvaccinated.

 

From the data it is a clear conclusion that the majority (not all) of these are preventable.  The more people who get vaccinated, the fewer hospital beds that are filled with Covid patients.  The quicker we get people vaccinated, the sooner those beds open up.  Tax dollars that goes to treating these anti-vaxxers can go to helping people with medical issues that is not Covid related.  That is where we want to go.  We only get there when the anti-vaxxers get their jabs.  I'm almost at the point where they should be jabbed with force.  I have lost all patience with the anti-vaxx lot.  

 

It is obvious that there are far too many unvaccinated people who won't get vaccinated without consequences.  If they still choose to go unvaccinated, then there should be no sympathy if they lose everything.  They had their chance.

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

A man from northern B.C. is speaking out to urge vaccination against COVID-19 as his pregnant wife clings to life in a hospital ICU some 1,200 kilometres from home.

 

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/unvaccinated-pregnant-woman-from-northern-b-c-clings-to-life-in-covid-19-icu-1.5635306

 

Our first daughter was born 26 weeks in to pregnancy, considered potentially "terminally premature" born at 1 pound 14 ounces.  I drove from Penticton to New West and the NICU there faster than I've ever driven.  I spent 3 months of my life with zero sleep, working in Penticton daily and on the phone or on the road back almost nightly.  I almost put myself in the hospital from sheer exhaustion and the fact I didn't die on the highway is more than impressive.

 

Reading this I understand completely his statements about doing anything to save your loved ones.  It's no joke.  This IS now a virus and pandemic of the unvaccinated as they are now officially the ones at risk.  I hope for the best for this persons partner and unborn child but the writing may very well be on the wall as per the medical experts' statements and thats absolutely heart breaking.

 

Ignorance may have cost this family their wife/mother and possibly an unborn daughter.  There's zero excuses as to why this happened to them except personal choice and that's not something I'd ever want to be forced to live with

[stawns]

26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I feel as though stripping the rights of employment insurance that many have paid in to is a seriously dangerous precedent as it leaves the door wide open for targeted clawbacks of further taxpayer funded programs such as pensions, workers compensations, education and more.

 

I 100% agree that people refusing to do the barest of minimums, who are continuing to perpetuate this virus via their selfishness should be called out and taken to task.  But I am not sure I agree wth this level of government interference because the precedent; once set is immutable and on the records.

 

Who would be there to stop a party like the PPC, Conservatives etc from clawing back pensions, native funding, education transfers or further EI and workers compensatory funds under the guise of "balancing the budget in the name of national security" ?

 

Don't think for a second that one this is on the table it won't happen if the other side has a majority.

let'sfocus on getting out of this first nd then deal with that after.  The PPC is never going to be in power and of the Cons ever do again, it will be a minority govt.  I want to get this behind us and that means we all have to be pulling in the same direction........if people either don't want to pull with us or actively go against it, then they need tobe sidelined until this is over.

[JM_]

29 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I feel as though stripping the rights of employment insurance that many have paid in to is a seriously dangerous precedent as it leaves the door wide open for targeted clawbacks of further taxpayer funded programs such as pensions, workers compensations, education and more.

 

I 100% agree that people refusing to do the barest of minimums, who are continuing to perpetuate this virus via their selfishness should be called out and taken to task.  But I am not sure I agree wth this level of government interference because the precedent; once set is immutable and on the records.

 

Who would be there to stop a party like the PPC, Conservatives etc from clawing back pensions, native funding, education transfers or further EI and workers compensatory funds under the guise of "balancing the budget in the name of national security" ?

 

Don't think for a second that one this is on the table it won't happen if the other side has a majority.

 

that slippery slope goes a few different directions. If the Fed's don't act to restrict anti-vax-by-choice EI benefits, then we open the door to any unsubstantiated conspiracy as a valid reason to quit a job after the minimum number of EI weeks. 5G? why not, its on similar ground to anti-vax BS.

 

Look at a place lke Ft. St. John. The EI issue will likely be a pretty big deal up there with all the seasonal work, and just fewer jobs. We need more things to shake the tree up there and get people thinking about real consequences before its too late for them.

 

What stops a party like the PPC is the simple fact they are a fringe party. If they ever actually get a majority, well that is what it is then.

 

[Warhippy]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

let'sfocus on getting out of this first nd then deal with that after.  The PPC is never going to be in power and of the Cons ever do again, it will be a minority govt.  I want to get this behind us and that means we all have to be pulling in the same direction........if people either don't want to pull with us or actively go against it, then they need tobe sidelined until this is over.

 

21 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

that slippery slope goes a few different directions. If the Fed's don't act to restrict anti-vax-by-choice EI benefits, then we open the door to any unsubstantiated conspiracy as a valid reason to quit a job after the minimum number of EI weeks. 5G? why not, its on similar ground to anti-vax BS.

 

Look at a place lke Ft. St. John. The EI issue will likely be a pretty big deal up there with all the seasonal work, and just fewer jobs. We need more things to shake the tree up there and get people thinking about real consequences before its too late for them.

 

What stops a party like the PPC is the simple fact they are a fringe party. If they ever actually get a majority, well that is what it is then.

 

You two are not thinking long term or in terms of judicial precedent.

 

You can think that a party like X won't get in to power, but look at the reform party.  Fringe nobodys in the 80s.  2 seats in the 90s and then they took over the Conservative brand.  

 

The bottom line is once this door gets opened it cannot be closed.  This is something that everyone should be watching VERY closely because the ramifications of it are so wide reaching and not relegated to federal boundaries.  once it is set in motion or enacted at the federal level it gives provinces the same ability to impose and challenge should it end up before the courts.

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, stawns said:

let'sfocus on getting out of this first nd then deal with that after.  The PPC is never going to be in power and of the Cons ever do again, it will be a minority govt.  I want to get this behind us and that means we all have to be pulling in the same direction........if people either don't want to pull with us or actively go against it, then they need tobe sidelined until this is over.

I'm not sure what societal pillar we are upholding by allowing the anti-vax-by-choice to run rampant over our healthcare, legal and other systems. Its not any freedom I see in the Charter.

[JM_]

Just now, Warhippy said:

 

You two are not thinking long term or in terms of judicial precedent.

 

You can think that a party like X won't get in to power, but look at the reform party.  Fringe nobodys in the 80s.  2 seats in the 90s and then they took over the Conservative brand.  

 

The bottom line is once this door gets opened it cannot be closed.  This is something that everyone should be watching VERY closely because the ramifications of it are so wide reaching and not relegated to federal boundaries.  once it is set in motion or enacted at the federal level it gives provinces the same ability to impose and challenge should it end up before the courts.

what door is being opened though? the EI rules are already in place, you have to lose or quit your job for a legitimate reason. Anti-vax-by-choice isn't a legitimate reason, and we can't allow it to be one.

 

Is that risking some kind of future blow back by a political party? maybe it is, I don't know. But i do know if we let this reason stand to get EI that does open a real door immediately to more abuse of the system.

 

I see a lot more risk in legitimizing the anti-vax-by-choice now, because it legitimizes the next facebook theory which we know is coming sooner than later.