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When people who don't have Covid-19 are having their health care impacted because the overwhelming majority of Covid-19 patients in hospital are unvaccinated by choice, I have no sympathy.   You can find my sympathy for the unvaccinated by choice between $&!# and syphilis.   

 

I'm also extremely frustrated with the defeatist mentality that this should be the new normal.   We haven't gotten to a place where we can even say that herd immunity won't work, won't happen.  95% or more and then we can talk.  

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2 hours ago, 4petesake said:


Sorry but there are several points here that I can’t agree with. Where do you see that Japan has done squat? I do agree that Canada should be more like Japan with our measures though. Check out the list of citizens from countries that Japan denied entry.

 

Canada does have a higher partially vaccinated rate (78%)  but Japan is not significantly lower (72%). Our fully vaccinated rate is much higher.

 

There are posters here who are vaccinated but don’t agree with vaccine passports. I hope that I’m not misstating your position @VancouverHabitantthat while I may disagree with, I still fully respect their view. I don’t think that anyone here would label this poster as an anti-vaxxer. For some the passport is a step too far, for the rest of us it’s a necessary step to help move forward to get to the point where hospitals & ICUs can adequately handle Covid caseloads and still give timely healthcare to the rest of society. 
 

 

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My wife is Japanese and my kids also dual, so we could enter Japan if we really really want to.  But there's not many direct flights via award travel to Osaka.... we're somewhat out of luck, unless we hotel quarantine.  If quarantining for 2 weeks, Covid won't kill me... but 2 weeks of non-stop Baby Shark and Cocomelon....  

 

Depending on the sources, some has Japan's rate at 60%, some around 70%.  A major uptick leading up to the Olympics, but still lots of hesitancy.  

But regardless of what the actual numbers are, the question remains on why there is a huge discrepancy regarding their infection rate vs here.  If higher vaccination rate means lower infection, why are the numbers between Japan and Canada so vastly different? You'd assume that it should be Japan that has a much higher rate than Canada... but currently the reverse is happening.  If those experts are unable to figure out why Canada is failing, maybe Canada should re-evaluate their game plan.  As a Canadian, I want the government to follow other places that are doing it right, not just winging it and hoping it works.  If when it doesn't, doubling down on it.  I mean remember when "if everyone just wore masks...."?  

 

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

But Japan did have a major lockdown phase, and they are vaccinating.

 

I probably would assume those things about you because the statistics would back up my assumption. Of course you could be in the minority of people not a Trumper and anti-vaxxer.

 

I think people who are anti-passport still get grief because it allows the anti-vaxxers some leeway, which to me is unacceptable. Its such a small thing, and the slippery slope / 1984 stuff just isn't reality.

 

A lot of people have really suffered and lost people they love, its not just about being on a high horse.

 

Their lockdown is far less restrictive than the "lockdown" here.  People (depending on which part of Japan) were still allowed to go dining, travel, happy ending massages, whatever.  Just a lot of the restrictions were very stupid.... no serving alcohol at a restaurant after 8pm... but dining still allowed until 11pm or weird rules like that.  In Japan, face shields are accepted in lieu of face masks.  

 

3 hours ago, Kurgom said:

Japan not only is an Island but has the most socially responsible population in the world and it's not even close. The reason we aren't Japan is we will have people that go to work with covid when they're told not to go to work when sick, while in Japan a person will let their lights go out and not eat if they have to, to not spread the disease. Every single person wears a mask outside their house in cities, even outdoors. People starved to death during the state of emergency in Japan, and they've been more intense in their "lock downs" than ours. I honestly doubt there are many countries you could immigrate to and feel less authority from the government than Canada, especially with how the world has been shifting towards authoritarianism globally. I bet they'll regret it if they do.

 

There is merit to what you are saying about divisive politics but bud, it's not any better anywhere else on the planet right now. At least in Canada, we're at a "you get chased off the internet" level of mob rule while other parts of the world will kill you for thinking the wrong things or praying to the wrong gods.

Japan's lockdown has been a joke.  

People still went to work in Japan.  People still lived their lives normally in Japan.  My wife's family kept travelling throughout Covid when they got those government travel vouchers and still kept going this year.  Most people I know in Japan would also be travelling if they weren't still working.  Of course, maybe the majority of them from Kansai may play a role, but my buddies in Tokyo still going to the bars with their friends and stuff, bring their kids to play dates, etc.  Japan is already thinking about restarting their travel program again.  

 

There are still TV shows and journalists legitimately questioning the narrative of vaccinations, to explore using alternative medicines, etc.  Imagine some journalist on CTV or CBC doing the same or top level doctors promoting alternative therapy.... they'd be cancelled and placed in limbo faster than Stephan Robidas' tenure with the TML. 

 

Canada is generally not as authoritarian than other countries, but this is Canada, we should be moving the away from it, not towards it.  With everything that has gone on in the past 2 years, this is definitely not a dictatorship.... but Canada has moved closer towards it.

 

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11 hours ago, Lancaster said:

My wife is Japanese and my kids also dual, so we could enter Japan if we really really want to.  But there's not many direct flights via award travel to Osaka.... we're somewhat out of luck, unless we hotel quarantine.  If quarantining for 2 weeks, Covid won't kill me... but 2 weeks of non-stop Baby Shark and Cocomelon....  

 

Depending on the sources, some has Japan's rate at 60%, some around 70%.  A major uptick leading up to the Olympics, but still lots of hesitancy.  

But regardless of what the actual numbers are, the question remains on why there is a huge discrepancy regarding their infection rate vs here.  If higher vaccination rate means lower infection, why are the numbers between Japan and Canada so vastly different? You'd assume that it should be Japan that has a much higher rate than Canada... but currently the reverse is happening.  If those experts are unable to figure out why Canada is failing, maybe Canada should re-evaluate their game plan.  As a Canadian, I want the government to follow other places that are doing it right, not just winging it and hoping it works.  If when it doesn't, doubling down on it.  I mean remember when "if everyone just wore masks...."?  

 

Their lockdown is far less restrictive than the "lockdown" here.  People (depending on which part of Japan) were still allowed to go dining, travel, happy ending massages, whatever.  Just a lot of the restrictions were very stupid.... no serving alcohol at a restaurant after 8pm... but dining still allowed until 11pm or weird rules like that.  In Japan, face shields are accepted in lieu of face masks.  

 

Japan's lockdown has been a joke.  

People still went to work in Japan.  People still lived their lives normally in Japan.  My wife's family kept travelling throughout Covid when they got those government travel vouchers and still kept going this year.  Most people I know in Japan would also be travelling if they weren't still working.  Of course, maybe the majority of them from Kansai may play a role, but my buddies in Tokyo still going to the bars with their friends and stuff, bring their kids to play dates, etc.  Japan is already thinking about restarting their travel program again.  

 

There are still TV shows and journalists legitimately questioning the narrative of vaccinations, to explore using alternative medicines, etc.  Imagine some journalist on CTV or CBC doing the same or top level doctors promoting alternative therapy.... they'd be cancelled and placed in limbo faster than Stephan Robidas' tenure with the TML. 

 

Canada is generally not as authoritarian than other countries, but this is Canada, we should be moving the away from it, not towards it.  With everything that has gone on in the past 2 years, this is definitely not a dictatorship.... but Canada has moved closer towards it.

 

 

well, clearly there is some fundamental difference between Japan and Canada thats allowed Japan to have a less restrictive lockdown. I think you're actually making a good case for us not to folow Japan. If we can't handle more restrictions and have worse numbers, why the heck would we want to ease things up further?

 

Just curious - have you heard about any oddball protestors in Japan like we have in front of hospitals?

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Lancaster said:

My wife is Japanese and my kids also dual, so we could enter Japan if we really really want to.  But there's not many direct flights via award travel to Osaka.... we're somewhat out of luck, unless we hotel quarantine.  If quarantining for 2 weeks, Covid won't kill me... but 2 weeks of non-stop Baby Shark and Cocomelon....  

 

Depending on the sources, some has Japan's rate at 60%, some around 70%.  A major uptick leading up to the Olympics, but still lots of hesitancy.  

But regardless of what the actual numbers are, the question remains on why there is a huge discrepancy regarding their infection rate vs here.  If higher vaccination rate means lower infection, why are the numbers between Japan and Canada so vastly different? You'd assume that it should be Japan that has a much higher rate than Canada... but currently the reverse is happening.  If those experts are unable to figure out why Canada is failing, maybe Canada should re-evaluate their game plan.  As a Canadian, I want the government to follow other places that are doing it right, not just winging it and hoping it works.  If when it doesn't, doubling down on it.  I mean remember when "if everyone just wore masks...."?  

 

 

I agree that we should always be looking to emulate countries like Japan who have been more successful at limiting transmission and mortality. We need to learn what we can take and apply here in Canada. 
 

A few things that seem to stand out:

 

-high quality universal health care system

-a very rigorous use of contract tracing that enabled them to identify outbreak clusters early and was widely accepted by the population. Compare that to our half-hearted attempts and close to zero buy-in in most areas. Our program was so poorly accepted that it was virtually abandoned

-small local health units that were able react quickly to outbreaks, do the contact tracing and get the infected people to isolate very early and limit spread

-a generally healthier population with far fewer co-morbitities

-a culture that has a history of sacrifice for the common good; more trusting of government recommendations 

-earlier and wide-ranging foreign travel restrictions. Here we seemed to favour closing the barn door after the animals escaped 

 

 

Here I have included the conclusions of one of the studies I read. It seems that most of the measures they took early and decisively have resulted in far fewer people having ever been exposed to the virus.

CONCLUSION

Science has shown that Japan has, so far, controlled the dissemination of the disease. Telecom giant Softbank conducted an antibody test on 40000 employees in June that revealed only 0.24% were exposed to the virus. Randomized studies in Tokyo and two other prefectures found that exposure rates were much lower. In Tokyo, only 0.1% came back positive. As opposed to rigorous lockdown measurements and widespread testing like in other countries, it is only with the help of pre-existing cultures and healthy lifestyles that Japan has successfully reduced the transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Implementing an instant breakdown of smaller clusters by retrospectively tracing and motivating a *3C method for all the people appeared to be successful. This study could help many countries address many aspects of the successful management of infections.

*3C is a program designed to make people aware of high-risk settings  = closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings

 

 

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1 hour ago, gurn said:

Perhaps part of the difference is Canada sharing the largest 'open' border in the world, with a nation that started very, very, very poorly in their fight with Covid?

Started, yes. The middle part they didn't too hot either. Present day isn't all that much better really. America has simply buggered this up from start to finish so far I'd reckon.

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On 10/10/2021 at 12:50 PM, Shayster007 said:

I honestly think this is a weird form of natural selection. Due to advances in medicine, and how generally humans are much safer then ever before, nature needs a way to perform a necessary part of any species existence. I honestly believe a part of the population is born with a deficiency in logic, compassion, and common sense.

 

Those people will always find a way to be at risk of natural selection. Don't matter whether it's falling off a cliff, getting trampled my a stampede of antelope, not whereing their seatbelt, or now fighting the covid vaccine. Nature will always find a way to keep the population moving forward. 

It will be like we talk about cavemen in history today. Kids will be like ... so there was a killer virus, you had a vaccine that worked, but people refused to take it and died horribly while stealing hospital beds and killing others in the process?

 

Say whhhhhhhat? School sucks this sh!t don't make sense.

 

image.jpeg.f28ae219f100a81e9a79a3d8bdcb7226.jpeg

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

It will be like we talk about cavemen in history today. Kids will be like ... so there was a killer virus, you had a vaccine that worked, but people refused to take it and died horribly while stealing hospital beds and killing others in the process?

 

Say whhhhhhhat? School sucks this sh!t don't make sense.

 

image.jpeg.f28ae219f100a81e9a79a3d8bdcb7226.jpeg

 

 

So true.  These idiots refusing a life saving vaccine will be right up there (for students having trouble understanding the how) with soldiers during the Napoleonic era lining up and shooting at each other like its dodge ball.  Well, at least the kids will know those soldiers had courage.  Unlike th3 anti vaxxers, who are cowards.  

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36 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

It will be like we talk about cavemen in history today. Kids will be like ... so there was a killer virus, you had a vaccine that worked, but people refused to take it and died horribly while stealing hospital beds and killing others in the process?

 

Say whhhhhhhat? School sucks this sh!t don't make sense.

 

image.jpeg.f28ae219f100a81e9a79a3d8bdcb7226.jpeg

 

 

They sure will. But in all fairness that's kinda how history works unfortunately..

 

Kids now are saying "what do you mean the government took indigenous children away from their loving family's and sent them to kid jail and tortured their culture out of them?"

 

Every part of history is going to have it's bad chapters. All we can do is our best, and hope the majority to do their part to not write those pages.

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On 10/10/2021 at 12:41 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'm more concerned that Nurses (Not sure about Doctors) that are resigning because its a requirement to get vaccinated. 

I saw one who claims she was a nurse, but I notice:

- She didn't name the hospital.

- Didn't state which hospital suspended her. Nor did it say was she suspended for not getting vaccinated or something else?

- Didn't state where she graduated from.

- She looked more like a model. 

 

Maybe it's better if you don't believe your own profession, to leave it. 

There's a post about a woman in plain blue scrubs online about calling them heroes one week then firing them the next

 

Someone found out she's an admin assistant in an insurance office and had purchased the scrubs to go to a rally.

 

It's beyond easy to create a fake misleading photo and allow people to draw their own conclusions from it.  Confirmation bias is real; but adding a visual to it allows them to really push it home

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23 hours ago, Lancaster said:

 

Many people are pro-vaccine and are against the passport, but they're still labelled as anti-vaxxers.  It's just simply divisive politics.  In a secular society, some people treat politics as their religion.  Go against their political opinions (especially if it related to covid), then you're fair game for a 21st century inquisition (eg. cancelled, online harassment, doxxed, unfriended, etc).  I know some people who immigrated to Canada and are thinking of moving back to their home country as they feel Canada is become way too authoritative.... too different from the Canada they initially fell in love with.  

Holy crap is this ever something to consider.  This is a well aimed needle at the balloon of self self assurance people feel believing that their side is right and anyone else is wrong.  The end result of partisanship divides.

 

I hope more people actually read this and understand your meaning behind it.

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

So true.  These idiots refusing a life saving vaccine will be right up there (for students having trouble understanding the how) with soldiers during the Napoleonic era lining up and shooting at each other like its dodge ball.  Well, at least the kids will know those soldiers had courage.  Unlike th3 anti vaxxers, who are cowards.  

Or Aussie soldiers shooting prisoners under orders. 

Scapegoats of the Empire.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Holy crap is this ever something to consider.  This is a well aimed needle at the balloon of self self assurance people feel believing that their side is right and anyone else is wrong.  The end result of partisanship divides.

 

I hope more people actually read this and understand your meaning behind it.

Only one side is politicizing the virus.  The rest of us want to do what needs to be done to get some kind of normal back

 

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Good idea, but I wouldn't go in a theater unless there is a vaccine pass at check in and I will still wear a N95. Won't be eating popcorn, but that kinda spoils the whole theater experience.  Just wait for streaming online and watch at home. 

 

Less than 700 ppm is good. 

 

 

 

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When and why did this COVID become political?   I read a while back that something like 75% of democrats are vaccinated but only 15% of republicans are (numbers could be wrong...but it was around that).   If the numbers were more like 50% for both, that would make more sense....but why the uneven split?

 

 

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The problem is that politicizing covid is essentially the "easy way out". It's the classic ability to blame others for your own faults.

 

Does this happen on both sides? Maybe? There's obviously the non-vaccinated side that openly blames the government as to why they don't vaccinate. The real question then comes with the ones who do vaccinate and whether or not they also are politicizing.

 

So my question then would be this: in what way would the vaccinated be considered to be politicizing? I'd like this to be defined rather than just finger pointing.

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16 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Holy crap is this ever something to consider.  This is a well aimed needle at the balloon of self self assurance people feel believing that their side is right and anyone else is wrong.  The end result of partisanship divides.

 

I hope more people actually read this and understand your meaning behind it.

but Hip, the anti-vaxxers / anti-passport people are on the wrong side of this. Its rare that we get such a clear example of an issue where one side is so off base.

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27 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but Hip, the anti-vaxxers / anti-passport people are on the wrong side of this. Its rare that we get such a clear example of an issue where one side is so off base.

Lol, yes.  I 100% disagree with them and their statements and actions.

 

But the meat of the matter Lancaster brought up was the difference between Japan and Canada and how the respective populations are handling things.  That poster is not incorrect at all and it's actually eye opening because we ARE in fact that polarized along party/political/health lines.  We've literally decided to sit in armed camps of self righteousness and dictate who is right who is wrong based off of our opinions or the "science" and anyone astride the middle is wrong, anyone not in our camp is ignorant etc.

 

There's no more room for debate and that's a pretty important thing for people to start looking at because at some point this virus will be put under wraps but the damage to the actual identity of the populace and our further move towards Americanism in our attitudes will continue

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