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2 hours ago, gurn said:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/08/1035157226/miami-covid-19-deaths-schools-district

At least 13 employees of the Miami-Dade County Public Schools have died from complications of COVID-19 since Aug. 16, according to district officials.

Those who died include teachers, school bus drivers, a security worker and a cafeteria manager.

"It is a big number. It is a bruising statistic that we need to absolutely internalize," Miami-Dade school Superintendent Alberto M. Carvalho told NPR's Here & Now.

According to the president of United Teachers of Dade, Karla Hernandez-Mats, all of those who died were African American and unvaccinated.

Carvalho said that while the district is blocked by law from requiring employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19 or even asking whether they are vaccinated, he is urging people to get the shot.

"This sad statistic underscores the impact of misinformation and disinformation efforts through some vocal entities, who quite frankly profess anything but scientific reality," Carvalho said. "The outcome, the consequence is the death of individuals, and that's just not acceptable."

The school system — which is the fourth-largest district in the country — will try to increase the vaccination rate among staffers by offering $275 to any employee who shows proof of vaccination.

An uncertain start to the school year

Carvalho said that among the 13 deaths, the majority of people contracted COVID-19 and died before the beginning of the school year. One person had direct contact with students, he said.

Miami-Dade students returned to the classroom on Aug. 23 with a requirement that they wear masks as a spike in infections and deaths has continued to plague Florida.

The mask mandate was a violation of an order signed by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis barring schools from requiring that students wear face coverings and leaving that decision to their parents.

DeSantis has withheld funding from two school districts that violated his order, but Carvalho said that Miami-Dade had not yet lost any money.

The district has an online portal that tracks COVID-19 cases among its employees and staff, and it is continuing to urge all of those who are eligible to get vaccinated.

I cannot find it?

 

In Florida teachers protested blocking students from entering school unless they wore masks; against the law passed by their Conservative Governor.

 

A parent had a counter protest sign, paraphrasing; asking what proof they had that masks saved lives?

 

 

The teacher held up two death certificates of two teachers in their school that had just passed away... 

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B.C. COVID-19 pandemic update:

 

As of Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2021, 89.2% (4,136,000) of eligible people 12 and older in B.C. have received their first dose of COVID-19 vaccine and 83.5% (3,870,709) have received their second dose.

 

In addition, 89.7% (3,879,091) of all eligible adults in B.C. have received their first dose and 84.2% (3,640,757) have received their second dose.

 

B.C. is reporting 560 new cases of COVID-19, including eight epi-linked cases, for a total of 198,838 cases in the province.

 

There are 4,913 active cases of COVID-19 in the province, and 191,476 people who tested positive have recovered. Of the active cases, 382 individuals are in hospital and 146 are in intensive care. The remaining people are recovering at home in self-isolation.

 

Note: Intensive care numbers are a subset of the total in hospital. They are not in addition to the number of people in hospital.

 

The new/active cases include:

  • 208 new cases in Fraser Health
    • Total active cases: 2,052
  • 80 new cases in Vancouver Coastal Health
    • Total active cases: 717
  • 79 new cases in Interior Health
    • Total active cases: 772
  • 131 new cases in Northern Health
    • Total active cases: 797
  • 61 new cases in Island Health
    • Total active cases: 516
  • one new case of a person who resides outside of Canada
    • Total active cases: 59

In the past 24 hours, five new deaths have been reported, for an overall total of 2,086.

 

The new deaths include:

  • Fraser Health: two
  • Northern Health: two
  • Island Health: one

There has been one new health-care facility outbreak at The Emerald at Elim Village (Fraser Health), for a total of 23 active outbreaks, including:

long-term care:

  • Willingdon Care Centre, Westminster House, Magnolia Gardens, Manoah Manor, Cherington Place, West Shore Laylum, Queens Park Care Centre, Heritage Village (Fraser Health);
  • Amica Lions Gate (Vancouver Coastal Health);
  • Cottonwoods Care Centre, Overlander, Village by the Station, Haven Hill Retirement Centre (Interior Health); and
  • Wrinch Memorial Hospital (Northern Health).

acute care:

  • Mission Memorial Hospital (Fraser Health);
  • University Hospital of Northern BC, GR Baker Memorial Hospital (Northern Health); and
  • Tofino General Hospital (Island Health).

assisted or independent living:

  • Sunset Manor, Evergreen Manor, Menno Terrace West, The Emerald at Elim Village (Fraser Health); and
  • Cooper Place (Vancouver Coastal Health).

From Oct. 11-17, people not fully vaccinated accounted for 67.1% of cases and from Oct. 4-17 they accounted for 75.5% of hospitalizations.

 

Past week cases (Oct. 11-17) – Total 3,997

  • Not vaccinated: 2,407 (60.2%)
  • Partially vaccinated: 277 (6.9%)
  • Fully vaccinated: 1,313 (32.8%)

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Oct. 4-17) – Total 384

  • Not vaccinated: 268 (69.8%)
  • Partially vaccinated: 22 (5.7%)
  • Fully vaccinated: 94 (24.5%)

Past week, cases per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Oct. 11-17)

  • Not vaccinated: 281.7
  • Partially vaccinated: 81.2
  • Fully vaccinated: 31.1

Past two weeks, cases hospitalized per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Oct. 4-17)

  • Not vaccinated: 45.2
  • Partially vaccinated: 9.7
  • Fully vaccinated: 2.1

Since December 2020, the Province has administered 8,073,677 doses of Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines.

 

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0185-002000

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As I've said before and will again. More evidence of it:

The Pharma apologists in this thread, about as morally bankrupt as one has to be, pathetically aren't even part of this special profiteering club either and therefore any lack of motive continue to make asinine defenses. Defenses of Pharma practices such as Merck's 40x markup to "cover R&D costs" on a treatment despite being taxpayer funded is rational and just when it comes to saving lives and ending the pandemic as soon as possible, or to get as close to that as we can. It has always been about making an exorbitant profit off the health of people, at the expense of people's lives, as per what Pharma regularly does. Instead of acknowledging what couldn't be more evident aside from a full blown confession from Pharma itself, these same apologist hacks right out of the apologetics playbook continue to double down on that stubbornness. They do this because they have deemed those critical of Pharma at this time, for any reason, as "anti-vaxer", which is so often incorrect and easily falsifiable. At least we both know I'm right even though the other side will never concede that notion.  

 

Pope asks pharmaceutical companies to release patents for COVID-19 vaccines

 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/10/16/pope-pharmaceutical-companies-patents-covid-19-vaccines/3221634420392/

 

Moderna, Racing for Profits, Keeps Covid Vaccine Out of Reach of Poor

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/09/business/moderna-covid-vaccine.html?fbclid=IwAR2ohBnE_tm1KrCCb-9qMhsql_fWQrjBPqocTvd3O3IyZRR-zQGuvT-hQjo

 

image.png.c5c8721920518bbf16c50deb87d3da5b.png

 

 

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So you moan about big Pharma, by posting something that shows Pfizer and Johnson and Johnson are doing good things.

So rather than smearing a whole industry, would it not be better to say " Hey Moderna are being jerks, compared to others in the field"?

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4 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

As I've said before and will again. More evidence of it:

The Pharma apologists in this thread, about as morally bankrupt as one has to be, pathetically aren't even part of this special profiteering club either and therefore any lack of motive continue to make asinine defenses. Defenses of Pharma practices such as Merck's 40x markup to "cover R&D costs" on a treatment despite being taxpayer funded is rational and just when it comes to saving lives and ending the pandemic as soon as possible, or to get as close to that as we can. It has always been about making an exorbitant profit off the health of people, at the expense of people's lives, as per what Pharma regularly does. Instead of acknowledging what couldn't be more evident aside from a full blown confession from Pharma itself, these same apologist hacks right out of the apologetics playbook continue to double down on that stubbornness. They do this because they have deemed those critical of Pharma at this time, for any reason, as "anti-vaxer", which is so often incorrect and easily falsifiable. At least we both know I'm right even though the other side will never concede that notion.  

 

Pope asks pharmaceutical companies to release patents for COVID-19 vaccines

 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/10/16/pope-pharmaceutical-companies-patents-covid-19-vaccines/3221634420392/

 

Moderna, Racing for Profits, Keeps Covid Vaccine Out of Reach of Poor

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/09/business/moderna-covid-vaccine.html?fbclid=IwAR2ohBnE_tm1KrCCb-9qMhsql_fWQrjBPqocTvd3O3IyZRR-zQGuvT-hQjo

 

image.png.c5c8721920518bbf16c50deb87d3da5b.png

 

 

Pharmaceutical companies making profit in a system that is based on...PROFIT.  Companies making profit is not an argument against the products they are selling.   

 

I think that if you go back in a few other threads, you would find that posters such as myself have pushed for healthcare ideas that reduce or take the profit out of healthcare.  

 

If you are trying to argue for strict regulation or even nationalization, I'm pretty sure there are people who have been supporting vaccines who would jump on board and others who would screech socialism.

 

I think the point you are trying to make is probably better suited for a different thread.  

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Also FYI AstraZeneca vaccine is being sold at cost.
 

That was 97% UK taxpayer funded as well. It was also a cooperation between two parties Oxford University and AZ which is primarily a cancer drug and treatment company. 

 

The formula is made in multiple sites and licensed to other countries to produce. 
 

I believe AZ has lost money on it as well and the hit it has taken on a PR front as well as it was the target politicking as well.

 

So it’s not Big Pharma at all that’s a lazy smear brush of someone who cannot be bothered to scratch the surface of what’s actually happening.

 

one player acting in bad faith doesn’t mean they all are 

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16 hours ago, gurn said:

So you moan about big Pharma, by posting something that shows Pfizer and Johnson and Johnson are doing good things.

So rather than smearing a whole industry, would it not be better to say " Hey Moderna are being jerks, compared to others in the field"?

thats too fine a point for him to accomplish. 

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12 hours ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Pharmaceutical companies making profit in a system that is based on...PROFIT.  Companies making profit is not an argument against the products they are selling.   

 

I think that if you go back in a few other threads, you would find that posters such as myself have pushed for healthcare ideas that reduce or take the profit out of healthcare.  

 

If you are trying to argue for strict regulation or even nationalization, I'm pretty sure there are people who have been supporting vaccines who would jump on board and others who would screech socialism.

 

I think the point you are trying to make is probably better suited for a different thread.  

I don't think you need to do that, just better regulation. There's nothing stopping our gov'ts from requiring pharma companies to provide doses around the world, or participate in a global vaccine sharing system. 

 

The issue with taking profit out is you will lose a lot of innovative thinkers and companies, but you don't need to let them run wild either. 

 

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9 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

Also FYI AstraZeneca vaccine is being sold at cost.

This fact, has never gotten the respect it deserves. Astra got caught up in a government versus government fight; likely a casualty of the Brexit fiasco.

Such a shame, as they provided a critical vaccine, at a critical time, even though it wasn't their main line of  work.

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6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I don't think you need to do that, just better regulation. There's nothing stopping our gov'ts from requiring pharma companies to provide doses around the world, or participate in a global vaccine sharing system. 

 

The issue with taking profit out is you will lose a lot of innovative thinkers and companies, but you don't need to let them run wild either. 

 

Thing is, there is a lot of initial research on drugs and treatments that is done in university labs or is heavily subsidized.  The notion that only private enterprise is the only way innovation happens is a farce.  

 

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6 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Thing is, there is a lot of initial research on drugs and treatments that is done in university labs or is heavily subsidized.  The notion that only private enterprise is the only way innovation happens is a farce.  

 

for sure that happens there. But then what comes next? the cost to scale up is massive. 

 

Even something as small as QLT in Vancouver that got spun out of UBC took 100s of millions to get going, and that was for one specialized drug with a small patient population. 

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3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

for sure that happens there. But then what comes next? the cost to scale up is massive. 

 

Even something as small as QLT in Vancouver that go spun out of UBC took 100s of millions to get going, and that was for one specialized drug with a small patient population. 

Yes.  Capitalism exists, so costs and profits are part of it.  Torts was trying to make the point that we vaccine defenders were pro-Pharma all the way.  That this kind of discussion could easily derail things.  

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@thedestroyerofworlds I do think one area where we can get universities to make a bigger impact is with orphan drugs. Big companies won't do it as there's just losses in it for them, but if Canada e.g. funded a central lab (and insurance) for production of drugs for rare diseases that would be a huge benefit to a lot of families that can't afford treatments.

 

My worry about relying on uni's is its all curiosity-driven, so if a prof doesn't care about a particular disease nothing will get done. But if there is a market to treat a disease you'll see for-profit companies trying to come up with something. 

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Just now, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Yes.  Capitalism exists, so costs and profits are part of it.  Torts was trying to make the point that we vaccine defenders were pro-Pharma all the way.  That this kind of discussion could easily derail things.  

I think he was pointing that thing my way. I tried having a rational discussion with him last week and he couldn't handle it. 

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Just now, JM_ said:

@thedestroyerofworlds I do think one area where we can get universities to make a bigger impact is with orphan drugs. Big companies won't do it as there's just losses in it for them, but if Canada e.g. funded a central lab (and insurance) for production of drugs for rare diseases that would be a huge benefit to a lot of families that can't afford treatments.

 

My worry about relying on uni's is its all curiosity-driven, so if a prof doesn't care about a particular disease nothing will get done. But if there is a market to treat a disease you'll see for-profit companies trying to come up with something. 

Kinda like how we should have some ability to produce our own vaccines. 

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