Coronavirus outbreak

[Russ]

6 hours ago, Industrious1 said:

Many governments in the world have had a taste of power beyond the scope of 'regular' democracy.  Canada has had some of these issues (mild ones, admittedly) but if you look at a fellow commonwealth partner such as Australia...things get a bit darker.  

 

History would tell us those that have such power/privilege rarely give it up easily (referencing history is so passe these days, I know).   Something tells me after covid there will be a lull and then another medical style emergency that will sweep the world.  The coronavirus has shown officials that using a casus belli of a medical nature (IE a plague) is highly effective in instituting strong control over a population.

 

I'm going to hold onto my hat and hope for the best but prepare for the worst.  

This is the one thing I don't like.  Have governments realized they can flex their muscles and just force people to not vacation, not travel, not do anything just because they say now?  How quickly will they be to pull the rug out on the slightest thing in the future that could or could not be.  I fully support the vaccine but the limiting and segrerating vaccinated and unvaccinated who can go to restaurants, gyms, etc. is a little far in my eyes with them flexing more and more "power" over everyone.  

And how often have we seen "do as I say not as I do" like the memo leak the other day of rapid tests going to government christmas parties but not to the general public or how many officials have taken vacations.  Or whats not "essential travel"?  I need a mental break from the crap, is me going away on a vacation somehwere warm to zone out and relax for my mental health not essential?

 

I feel they are pushing their boundaries way to far at this point.

[Chris12345]

5 minutes ago, Russ said:

This is the one thing I don't like.  Have governments realized they can flex their muscles and just force people to not vacation, not travel, not do anything just because they say now?  How quickly will they be to pull the rug out on the slightest thing in the future that could or could not be.  I fully support the vaccine but the limiting and segrerating vaccinated and unvaccinated who can go to restaurants, gyms, etc. is a little far in my eyes with them flexing more and more "power" over everyone.  

And how often have we seen "do as I say not as I do" like the memo leak the other day of rapid tests going to government christmas parties but not to the general public or how many officials have taken vacations.  Or whats not "essential travel"?  I need a mental break from the crap, is me going away on a vacation somehwere warm to zone out and relax for my mental health not essential?

 

I feel they are pushing their boundaries way to far at this point.

And as I just said above....somewhere warm is a lot safer than a Canucks game if you are on the beach.

[Jaimito]

Air China crew at Vancouver Airport 

 

 

[gizmo2337]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Which ones specifically? 

Iran. Do we know what the real number of cases is? Not really, because they don't have widespread testing. The NRC can count bodies at hospitals though. Death toll is 4X higher than reported. If you extrapolate deaths to total cases, Iran is probably 3rd in total cases behind only USA and India.

https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/ncri-statements/statement-human-rights/iran-coronavirus-death-toll-exceeds-488500/

 

[PhillipBlunt]

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

You're never going to get absolute proof because they don't keep stats.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/07/20/1018438334/indias-pandemic-death-toll-estimated-at-about-4-million-10-times-the-official-co

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-21/covid-19-may-have-claimed-as-many-as-5-million-lives-in-india

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/3/is-india-counting-every-covid-case-what-about-deaths

While interesting, as you said, no real proof is evident here. Speculation? Sure. 

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

While India isn't a totalitarian state it's really only a democracy for those with money. If you're poor you're outta luck.

That describes a few countries. India still has elections, and I believe has term limits to how long a leader can stay in power. Not the same as China or Turkmenistan. 

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Which ones lie? China, Russia has claimed the 5th most Covid cases. Global mortality rate is about 1.6%. Russia's mortality rate is sub .3%. That's really impressive. Everyone should be doing what they're doing right?

And what is the assumption that the actual mortality rate is at?

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

If you look at the cases per capita data you'll see the developing nations of the world have seemingly done a much better job at protecting their citizens than developed countries. One would have to be pretty naive to believe that.

Possibly, or maybe being a first world person with a first world perspective one might tend to downplay what they determine to be a lesser nation’s capabilities. 

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Either the developed nations are over-reporting cases or underdeveloped nations are under reporting their cases (or just not testing). While there may be some truth to the former. It is far more likely the latter is the norm.

I’m thinking that the truth lies somewhere in between. 

[PhillipBlunt]

16 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

Iran. Do we know what the real number of cases is? Not really, because they don't have widespread testing. The NRC can count bodies at hospitals though. Death toll is 4X higher than reported. If you extrapolate deaths to total cases, Iran is probably 3rd in total cases behind only USA and India.

https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/ncri-statements/statement-human-rights/iran-coronavirus-death-toll-exceeds-488500/

 

While interesting, this is presented by a resistance movement in Iran. Do they have the access and capability to fully determine the numbers of deceased in every hospital in the country? Would the presiding government of Iran even allow that?

[gizmo2337]

13 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

While interesting, this is presented by a resistance movement in Iran. Do they have the access and capability to fully determine the numbers of deceased in every hospital in the country? Would the presiding government of Iran even allow that?

Well you can believe the dictator Shah's, who report randomly whatever they feel like, or the PMOI/MEK which is their democratic opposition here. The latter has access to all the hospital data in Iran, broken down by hospital and province. Their numbers come directly from the medical staff in the hospitals.

[PhillipBlunt]

9 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

Well you can believe the dictator Shah's, who report randomly whatever they feel like, or the PMOI/MEK which is their democratic opposition here. The latter has access to all the hospital data in Iran, broken down by hospital and province. Their numbers come directly from the medical staff in the hospitals.

Very interesting. I’ll give you that. That being said, how is the information vetted that the PMOI/NEK provides? 
 

I take from your post that you presently live in Iran? Is the PMOI/NEK the official opposition? Are they recognized by the population as the official opposition or are they operating in a more covert manner due to possible pressure from the presiding government?

 

I know little to nothing about this and would like to know more. I’ll look up the acronyms as a start but always prefer the perspective of those living it. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by PhillipBlunt

[gizmo2337]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Very interesting. I’ll give you that. That being said, how is the information vetted that the PMOI/NEK provides? 
 

I take from your post that you presently live in Iran? Is the PMOI/NEK the official opposition? Are they recognized by the population as the official opposition or are they operating in a more covert manner due to possible pressure from the presiding government?

 

I know little to nothing about this and would like to know more. I’ll look up the acronyms as a start but always prefer the perspective of those living it. 

They are the official opposition, hated by the Ayatollah, Shahs, and Mullahs. Recognized as the democratic opposition by United Nations. If the pandemic hadn't shown up there probably would have been further protests/riots against the corrupt regime in the streets. The pandemic keeps the regime in place for now. In contrast, the opposition has nothing to lose by reporting the real story on the ground. You can read more in their other news stories on same news site. This is not new, it's been going on for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran

You have to read the terrorist part with a grain of salt. That label has long since been lifted. They are the most likely transition to peaceful democracy. The Ayatollah elected officials isn't really a democracy. Candidates are hand picked and report directly to Ayatollah.

I live in BC, and born Canadian. I just happen to know a bit on the topic. A transition to peaceful true democracy in that country is just a topic I find interesting.

[nuckin_futz]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

While interesting, as you said, no real proof is evident here. Speculation? Sure. 

That describes a few countries. India still has elections, and I believe has term limits to how long a leader can stay in power. Not the same as China or Turkmenistan. 

And what is the assumption that the actual mortality rate is at?

Possibly, or maybe being a first world person with a first world perspective one might tend to downplay what they determine to be a lesser nation’s capabilities. 

I’m thinking that the truth lies somewhere in between. 

I get the feeling you're not really here for conversation but rather to nitpick.

 

Take it easy Phil.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

I get the feeling you're not really here for conversation but rather to nitpick.

 

Take it easy Phil.

I’m easy, nuckin. Easy like Sunday morning. 

[Industrious1]

6 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

I get the feeling you're not really here for conversation but rather to nitpick.

 

Take it easy Phil.

 

 

I thought most of your exchanges were civil and courteous.  Kudos to the both of you for a little bit of actual debate.  

 

In contrast...post in this thread that you are unsure/confused about vaccination and then wait for the usual suspects to form up a posse and come for you lol.  

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

Its going to be a weird stretch here.

Omicron shows potential to take this to a endemic but not enough is known about it.

 

NFL is thinking about allowing asymptomatic players back...

 

So the push could be to just let it spread around.

 

Throw caution to the wind...

 

I dunno. 

At some point .... for me that's after most of us have had their "boosters", it's time to just say enough is enough.   Obviously Poolman didn't know he had it ... was pulled after the first period.   Who knows maybe he's actually sick now, maybe he's not.   Omicron is over 4 times more viral as in infectious then Delta, but milder symptoms.   Hope everyone just gets it vaccinated or not, those who've been vaxxed - tiny chance of being hospitalized, and small chance they even get symptoms.    At some point we do need to do just that.    Also do our part and get vaxxed.   Doesn't spread as much.    Like probably a lot of folks, getting really sick and tired of this. 

 

Get the models with Omicran.   The hospitals will fill up again.   Mostly non-vaxxed covidiots that don't care enough to keep the elderly lol - sorry now it's not that - the other covidiots from getting sick and dying.   But also with folks who haven't had their boosters as well.    Darwin must be rolling around in his grave right now.  

[bishopshodan]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

At some point .... for me that's after most of us have had their "boosters", it's time to just say enough is enough.   Obviously Poolman didn't know he had it ... was pulled after the first period.   Who knows maybe he's actually sick now, maybe he's not.   Omicron is over 4 times more viral as in infectious then Delta, but milder symptoms.   Hope everyone just gets it vaccinated or not, those who've been vaxxed - tiny chance of being hospitalized, and small chance they even get symptoms.    At some point we do need to do just that.    Also do our part and get vaxxed.   Doesn't spread as much.    Like probably a lot of folks, getting really sick and tired of this. 

 

Get the models with Omicran.   The hospitals will fill up again.   Mostly non-vaxxed covidiots that don't care enough to keep the elderly lol - sorry now it's not that - the other covidiots from getting sick and dying.   But also with folks who haven't had their boosters as well.    Darwin must be rolling around in his grave right now.  

I hear what you are saying.

 

But i dont want any covid, in any form. 

[HKSR]

You know sh*t is getting bad when BCCDC removes info from their site.

 

Anybody else notice they removed their regional map that shows weekly cases by region?  Used to be updated every Wednesday.  As of yesterday, it's gone.

 

It REALLY doesn't help the case against antivaxxers when BCCDC and other government agencies are being so non-transparent with their data.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It REALLY doesn't help the case against antivaxxers

To be fair, will any amount of evidence change their minds?  Nope.

[PhillipBlunt]

4 hours ago, Industrious1 said:

I thought most of your exchanges were civil and courteous.  Kudos to the both of you for a little bit of actual debate.  

 

In contrast...post in this thread that you are unsure/confused about vaccination and then wait for the usual suspects to form up a posse and come for you lol.  

Some folks like to get ahead of things. I agree with your sentiment.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

39 minutes ago, HKSR said:

You know sh*t is getting bad when BCCDC removes info from their site.

 

Anybody else notice they removed their regional map that shows weekly cases by region?  Used to be updated every Wednesday.  As of yesterday, it's gone.

 

It REALLY doesn't help the case against antivaxxers when BCCDC and other government agencies are being so non-transparent with their data.

What page are you referring to?  The B.C. Covid-19 Dashboard is active:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a6f23959a8b14bfa989e3cda29297ded

 

Or is it this map from this page:

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/data

[stawns]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

At some point .... for me that's after most of us have had their "boosters", it's time to just say enough is enough.   Obviously Poolman didn't know he had it ... was pulled after the first period.   Who knows maybe he's actually sick now, maybe he's not.   Omicron is over 4 times more viral as in infectious then Delta, but milder symptoms.   Hope everyone just gets it vaccinated or not, those who've been vaxxed - tiny chance of being hospitalized, and small chance they even get symptoms.    At some point we do need to do just that.    Also do our part and get vaxxed.   Doesn't spread as much.    Like probably a lot of folks, getting really sick and tired of this. 

 

Get the models with Omicran.   The hospitals will fill up again.   Mostly non-vaxxed covidiots that don't care enough to keep the elderly lol - sorry now it's not that - the other covidiots from getting sick and dying.   But also with folks who haven't had their boosters as well.    Darwin must be rolling around in his grave right now.  

We absolutely do not know that and just on the infection rate, the emergency rooms are likely to reach capacity quickly and the death rate likely to increase significantly.  By all accounts, omicron is expected to be the worst wave yet.

 

https://www.macleans.ca/news/omicron-variant-will-likely-be-worse-than-delta-according-to-early-research/

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

What page are you referring to?  The B.C. Covid-19 Dashboard is active:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a6f23959a8b14bfa989e3cda29297ded

 

Or is it this map from this page:

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/data

It was one that is in shades of orange.  The map above is rate per 100,000.  The map I'm referring to was actual numbers of cases.