Coronavirus outbreak

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Looks like a vaccine for those under 5 will take a little longer.  

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/17/world/covid-omicron-vaccines#in-a-trial-pfizer-biontechs-low-dose-shot-did-not-provoke-an-adequate-immune-response-in-2-to-5-year-olds

 

In a trial, Pfizer-BioNTech’s low-dose shot fell short for children aged 2 to just under 5.

 

 

A low dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine did not produce a potent immune response in children aged 2 to just under 5 years of age, the companies announced on Friday, a discouraging setback that threatens to keep the vaccine from younger children for longer than many parents had hoped.

In ongoing clinical trials, the companies tested 3 micrograms of the vaccine — one-tenth of the adult dose — in children 6 months to less than 5 years of age. After two doses, children between 6 months and 2 years produced an immune response that was comparable to that of people aged 16 to 25 years, the companies said. But children between 2 and 5 years old did not.

The companies said they now would test a third low dose of the coronavirus vaccine in children 6 months to under 5 years of age. But they do not plan to test a higher dose of the vaccine in children between 2 and 5 years of age.

“The goal here is to understand the potential of protection of the third dose,” said Jerica Pitts, a spokeswoman for Pfizer. “We are studying 3 micrograms at this time.”

In a conference call with investors and analysts on Friday, Kathrin Jansen, Pfizer’s head of vaccine research, said the company planned to seek authorization for a “three-dose series” in children, instead of the originally planned two doses. If the revised strategy works, “we would have a consistent three-dose vaccine approach for all ages,” she said.

The announcement underscores the emerging idea among many experts that people should be considered “fully vaccinated” only after receiving what are now viewed as booster shots: three doses of the mRNA vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna, or after receiving at least one additional shot following a single dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

Early studies indicate that three doses of the mRNA vaccines may provide a stronger bulwark against the Omicron variant than two doses.

In the ongoing trial, children younger than 5 years of age will receive 3 micrograms of the vaccine at least two months after their second dose. Pfizer and BioNTech also plan to evaluate a third dose of 10 micrograms — one-third of the adult dose — in children 5 through 12 years of age.

The changes have been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration and the European Medicines Agency, according to a statement released by the companies on Friday. The companies say they would seek F.D.A. authorization for a three-dose series in younger children in the first half of 2022.

The F.D.A. last week authorized booster shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for adolescents ages 16 to 17. Pfizer did not provide an update on when it planned to ask the agency to authorize booster shots for children ages 5 to 15 years of age.

The F.D.A. has authorized the full adult dose for immunizations of adolescents 12 through 17 years of age. The companies plan to test booster doses of 10 or 30 micrograms to assess the safety and potency of both doses in 600 children in that age group.

The mRNA vaccines have been linked in some rare cases to heart problems in boys and young men, prompting some experts to suggest a lower dose for adolescents.

[Alflives]

22 minutes ago, GSP* said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-says-hospitalizations-in-omicron-wave-much-lower
 

South Africa delivered some positive news on the omicron coronavirus variant on Friday, reporting a much lower rate of hospital admissions and signs that the wave of infections may be peaking.

Only 1.7% of identified Covid-19 cases were admitted to hospital in the second week of infections in the fourth wave, compared with 19% in the same week of the third delta-driven wave, South African Health Minister Joe Phaahla said at a press conference. 
 

—————————

 

Still early but this is what I’m keeping an eye on. 

With us having 90% vaccinated, and Omicron presenting with mild to no symptoms, we are likely getting very close to Covid as endemic.  I do hope people continue to wear masks, keep their distance, and follow proper hygiene though.  We should just keep masks as a good health habit.  

[thedestroyerofworlds]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

With us having 90% vaccinated, and Omicron presenting with mild to no symptoms, we are likely getting very close to Covid as endemic.  I do hope people continue to wear masks, keep their distance, and follow proper hygiene though.  We should just keep masks as a good health habit.  

Yes.  That 10% represents hundreds of thousands of people here in BC.  Our heath care system is taxed and if even a fraction of those end up in hospital in a short period of time, it could be bad for anyone who needs heath care like elective surgeries.  

If you are unvaccinated by choice, you are part of the problem.  Period.

[Jack Fig]

25 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

If you are unvaccinated by choice, you are part of the problem.  Period.

Wrong.

I am unvaccinated by choice.

I am still waiting for my first sniffle in 22 months.

I know six people by name who have tested positive for Covid19. None of those six have been anywhere near me. Which is to say, nobody I know to have been in contact with has ever tested positive. 

I don't smoke, do drugs and I stopped drinking 29 years ago. I have not been on a prescription drug since I had an ear infection when I was 9 years old.

I haven't been in a hospital in 19 years since I had elbow surgery. And then 5 years before that to have an ankle x-rayed. 

I wash my hands plenty now and believe in social-distancing. I wear a mask as required by mandate, although I think masks are a joke. I don't attend large gatherings, or really any gatherings. I abide by all current mandates as directed by our provincial health ministry. I believe that anyone who attends events, such as sporting or entertainment, have the right to expect there are no unvaccinated people in attendance under the current guidelines. Again, I abide by that while those mandates are in place.

I plan on living a long, healthy life. I am certain I have a strong, healthy immune system, with a history of excellent health to back that up. At my age (50s), I will be going out this afternoon for my usual four-mile run and will hardly work up a sweat. My doctor tells me I have the lungs of someone half my age. I don't fear Covid because I fully believe I have all the ability in the world to withstand it should I contract it. 

 

So I ask, how am I part of the problem as you state? 

[Slegr]

BC and Canada need to shift their mindset on Covid. It’s no longer about case count. BC has fallen in love with case count because it gives the government a sense of control. But now case count will be too big, and too challenging capacity wise to do case tracking. It needs to shift to severity. Covid is now as easy to catch as a cold, and we need to assume it’s all around. I think we forget about individual Covid tests unless we’re feeling very sick. 
And asking asymptomatic travellers coming into Canada to have to quarantine is going to be nearly pointless as there will be asymptomatic Canadians walking around all over the place for the next several months.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, bolt said:

Only 2 hospitalizations out of 

1000 Ontario new variant cases.  Wonder when the chicken little fear mongerers are going to knock it off with their fear mongering?  All the evidence indicates this variant is very mild but people just love to live in fear regardless of evidence.

 

1 hour ago, bolt said:

According to what evidence of that it's not mild?  Case counts shouldn't be feared when its mild.

 

1 hour ago, bolt said:

And you fear mongerers post no evidence to indicate the opposite...

Why is it always the same statement/argument from these people who also, exclusively never ever post evidence or credible facts or arguments and just instead decide to storm a board making absolute statements then disappear when called out?

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Wrong.

I am unvaccinated by choice.

I am still waiting for my first sniffle in 22 months.

I know six people by name who have tested positive for Covid19. None of those six have been anywhere near me. Which is to say, nobody I know to have been in contact with has ever tested positive. 

I don't smoke, do drugs and I stopped drinking 29 years ago. I have not been on a prescription drug since I had an ear infection when I was 9 years old.

I haven't been in a hospital in 19 years since I had elbow surgery. And then 5 years before that to have an ankle x-rayed. 

I wash my hands plenty now and believe in social-distancing. I wear a mask as required by mandate, although I think masks are a joke. I don't attend large gatherings, or really any gatherings. I abide by all current mandates as directed by our provincial health ministry. I believe that anyone who attends events, such as sporting or entertainment, have the right to expect there are no unvaccinated people in attendance under the current guidelines. Again, I abide by that while those mandates are in place.

I plan on living a long, healthy life. I am certain I have a strong, healthy immune system, with a history of excellent health to back that up. At my age (50s), I will be going out this afternoon for my usual four-mile run and will hardly work up a sweat. My doctor tells me I have the lungs of someone half my age. I don't fear Covid because I fully believe I have all the ability in the world to withstand it should I contract it. 

 

So I ask, how am I part of the problem as you state? 

Well...the selfish aspect of this entire statement of self congratulation doesn't stick out like a sore thumb at all.

 

But since you asked.

 

The inherent selfishness of the anti-vaxx crowd has been the centre point of almost every argument.  because at no point in time in their/your statements does anybody else factor in to their arguments.  Everyone who has been at high risk, doesn't matter.  People that have given everything to help mitigate this doesn't matter.  

 

But you have to wear a mask and it's bad.  You have to change some basic habits and it's wrong.  You have to give just the barest of minimums and that's too much to ask 

 

So if you are still confused or not able to understand why the mindset of the majority os that your attitude is part of the problem, there is no helping you and there is literally no point at all in continuing to respond.

[bolt]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

 

Why is it always the same statement/argument from these people who also, exclusively never ever post evidence or credible facts or arguments and just instead decide to storm a board making absolute statements then disappear when called out?

Hey chicken little learn to use Google.  Look at south African data in which this variant was born.  You insult me with evidence and then offer no evidence yourself that this variant is severe.  If you believe this variant is severe, Do yourself a favour and lock yourself in your house for the next 6 months.  I don't have the time to argue with you when there are hoards of evidence that this variant is mild across the globe.  You choose to ignore facts so not much we can agree to.  I'm not disapearing but I guess I don't have a facebook fear mongering degree like yourself...

Edited December 18, 2021 by bolt

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, bolt said:

Hey chicken little learn to use Google.  Look at south African data in which this variant was born.  You insult me with evidence and then offer no evidence yourself that this variant is severe.  Do yourself a favour and lock yourself in your house for the next 6 months.  I don't have the time to argue with you when there are hoards of evidence that this variant is mild across the globe.

I cant keep up.

 

Just yesterday i read a couple articles that stated that is not the case, that omicron could be just as severe as delta. 

[bolt]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I cant keep up.

 

Just yesterday i read a couple articles that stated that is not the case, that omicron could be just as severe as delta. 

Let me guess your read that from an opioninated CNN article that was based on speculation and not data.

Edited December 18, 2021 by bolt

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, bolt said:

Hey chicken little learn to use Google.  Look at south African data in which this variant was born.  You insult me with evidence and then offer no evidence yourself that this variant is severe.  Do yourself a favour and lock yourself in your house for the next 6 months.  I don't have the time to argue with you when there are hoards of evidence that this variant is mild across the globe.

lEaRn tO uSe gOoGlE

 

Learn to maybe, back up your statements.  You have the time to make absolute statements without any actual evidence to back them up and instead repeat yourself, you like the term evidence but present none.

 

I don't think it should be hard to step up a bit if you're so convinced with your argument.  It's just copying and pasting links or credible data after all and that's pretty easy to do really.

 

As of right now, data presented shows that Omicron might be less severe.  But this was also said about Delta; until it wasn't.  Data also says that a majority of people in Africa infected or sick are not being recorded and reported

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/who-africa-covid-detection-1.6211629

 

But go on.

[bolt]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

lEaRn tO uSe gOoGlE

 

Learn to maybe, back up your statements.  You have the time to make absolute statements without any actual evidence to back them up and instead repeat yourself, you like the term evidence but present none.

 

I don't think it should be hard to step up a bit if you're so convinced with your argument.  It's just copying and pasting links or credible data after all and that's pretty easy to do really.

 

As of right now, data presented shows that Omicron might be less severe.  But this was also said about Delta; until it wasn't.  Data also says that a majority of people in Africa infected or sick are not being recorded and reported

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/who-africa-covid-detection-1.6211629

 

But go on.

Where was Delta ever remarked as mild?  Hospitalization and death rates were always high with delta.  You then send me an article that say 6 of 7 "CASES" aren't being reported.  Why are you in fear for what are probably mild cases because they don't require hospitalizations?  Again you are fear mongering using a "cases" article that is using speculation in an attempt to drum up fear.  South African hospilization rates are lower than any other wave and their death rate is the lowest they ever had since the pandemic began.  

 

The sky isn't falling, enjoy your life.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=south+african+death+rate+covid&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sxsrf=AOaemvIpW2YrlvdU2W_8E782f7qCgdMhnA%3A1639857183026&ei=Hzy-YelotMHuArD4uIgG&oq=south+african+death+rate+covid&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQgAEIAEMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBQghEKABMgQIIRAVOgcIABBHELADOgQIIxAnOgkIABDJAxAWEB46CAgAEBYQChAeSgQIQRgAUPEDWJQRYKcSaAFwAXgAgAH2AYgBnAiSAQU2LjMuMZgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by bolt

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, bolt said:

Let me guess your read that from an opioninated CNN article that was based on speculation and not data.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/omicron-gets-around-previous-covid-infection-u-k-study-warns

 

 

The Imperial College London team analyzed all the PCR test-confirmed Covid cases in England between Nov. 29 and Dec. 11, making it one of the most expansive examinations yet at omicron’s potential to evade the body’s defenses. The results were in line with the picture emerging of the variant’s capacity to elude protection from previous infection or inoculation and spread faster than earlier iterations of the virus. 

There was no evidence of omicron cases being less severe than delta, based on the proportion of people testing positive who had symptoms or went to the hospital, the team said. 

“It’s very early days,” said Neil Ferguson, a professor at Imperial, who helped lead the study. Rising hospitalizations in places like Manchester and London will provide clearer evidence, he said. “We should have data within a week to make a more definitive judgment on relative severity.” 

5 minutes ago, bolt said:

Where was Delta ever remarked as mild?  Hospilization rates were always high with delta.

When Delta was discovered in Oct 2020 it was labeled as "unknown" and MIGHTbe less severe but more transmissible.  Until it wasn't.  By then it was far too late.

 

As of right now Africa misses 6 out of 7 potential covid infections due to under reporting.  Africa also has one of the youngest areas of population density for infection among a large population, but also one of the most hard to reach due to the rural nature of much of the nation states.

 

It will be weeks before the actual data is out on transmissibility.  Severity.  Rates of infection vs vaccinated/non vaccinated people.

 

Making snide comments about where data is read and absolute statements about the science before it is in fact concrete is premature and rather foolish.

[bolt]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/omicron-gets-around-previous-covid-infection-u-k-study-warns

 

 

The Imperial College London team analyzed all the PCR test-confirmed Covid cases in England between Nov. 29 and Dec. 11, making it one of the most expansive examinations yet at omicron’s potential to evade the body’s defenses. The results were in line with the picture emerging of the variant’s capacity to elude protection from previous infection or inoculation and spread faster than earlier iterations of the virus. 

There was no evidence of omicron cases being less severe than delta, based on the proportion of people testing positive who had symptoms or went to the hospital, the team said. 

“It’s very early days,” said Neil Ferguson, a professor at Imperial, who helped lead the study. Rising hospitalizations in places like Manchester and London will provide clearer evidence, he said. “We should have data within a week to make a more definitive judgment on relative severity.” 

When Delta was discovered in Oct 2020 it was labeled as "unknown" and MIGHTbe less severe but more transmissible.  Until it wasn't.  By then it was far too late.

 

As of right now Africa misses 6 out of 7 potential covid infections due to under reporting.  Africa also has one of the youngest areas of population density for infection among a large population, but also one of the most hard to reach due to the rural nature of much of the nation states.

 

It will be weeks before the actual data is out on transmissibility.  Severity.  Rates of infection vs vaccinated/non vaccinated people.

 

Making snide comments about where data is read and absolute statements about the science before it is in fact concrete is premature and rather foolish.

It will be weeks before we realize how mild this virus is but somehow we already know a third dose offers 80% efficacy rate (maybe for a month?).    South african data Indicates its mild there is no data to suggest otherwise yet in which you didn't provide.  The UK is still dealing with delta so can't mix variants in severe and mild data.  South African is the one to base conclusions since the new variant is the dominant one.  Its good news that it's not as severe as delta; at least the data is something to have hope in.  

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by bolt

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, bolt said:

It will be weeks before we realize how mild this virus is but somehow we already know a third dose offers 80% efficacy rate (maybe for a month?).    South african data Indicates its mild there is no data to suggest otherwise yet in which you didn't provide.  The UK is still dealing with delta so can't mix variants in severe and mild data.  South African is the one to base conclusions since the new variant is the dominant one.  Its good news that it's not as severe as delta; at least the data is something to have hope in.  

 

 

You really don't know the science you're attempting to quote.  That's ok.  Like it really is.  But don't make absolute statements to the contrary.

 

1.  We can create tens of or hundreds of thousands of trial run data streams about the efficacy of vaccines vs variants in lab much faster than real time infections.

 

2.  South African data is, again; spotty at best.  The estimate is 6 of 7 infections is not recorded or reported and teams are unable to chart or look at mortality rates of the decased due to impacted teams and coverage

 

3.  South Africa is also one of the youngest nations impacted with minimal issues to long term health like obesity, heart and lung issues, lower cases of diabetes and issues affecting western nations that complete an "impacted health" statement.  IMpacted health and immune systems being major reasons for infections that lead to hospitalizations and death

 

4.  We don't KNOW yet if it is not as severe as Delta and that again is an absolute statement which, at this point in time is not grounded science but an early indicator.

 

5.  The preliminary data is promising BUT there is a proven multi week lag of infections to hospitalizations and fatalities.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Warhippy

[bolt]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-says-hospitalizations-in-omicron-wave-much-lower

 

Yes we do "KNOW" it's more mild than delta.

 

"Only 1.7% of identified Covid-19 cases were admitted to hospital in the second week of infections in the fourth wave, compared with 19% in the same week of the third delta-driven wave"

 

If you factor in all the cases that the who believes aren't reported then the rate is 0.24% who require a hospital visit.  The death rate is currently in the fraction of a fraction percentage wise.  This is coming from an area which is only 26% fully vaccinated.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by bolt

[thedestroyerofworlds]

55 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Wrong.

I am unvaccinated by choice.

I am still waiting for my first sniffle in 22 months.

I know six people by name who have tested positive for Covid19. None of those six have been anywhere near me. Which is to say, nobody I know to have been in contact with has ever tested positive. 

I don't smoke, do drugs and I stopped drinking 29 years ago. I have not been on a prescription drug since I had an ear infection when I was 9 years old.

I haven't been in a hospital in 19 years since I had elbow surgery. And then 5 years before that to have an ankle x-rayed. 

I wash my hands plenty now and believe in social-distancing. I wear a mask as required by mandate, although I think masks are a joke. I don't attend large gatherings, or really any gatherings. I abide by all current mandates as directed by our provincial health ministry. I believe that anyone who attends events, such as sporting or entertainment, have the right to expect there are no unvaccinated people in attendance under the current guidelines. Again, I abide by that while those mandates are in place.

I plan on living a long, healthy life. I am certain I have a strong, healthy immune system, with a history of excellent health to back that up. At my age (50s), I will be going out this afternoon for my usual four-mile run and will hardly work up a sweat. My doctor tells me I have the lungs of someone half my age. I don't fear Covid because I fully believe I have all the ability in the world to withstand it should I contract it. 

 

So I ask, how am I part of the problem as you state? 

You obviously don't look at Vintage's posts.  He's been posting the Covid updates for months now.  The story has been the same time after time.  BC has been breaking down cases and hospitalizations, adjusting for age and population.  The chances of getting Covid and being hospitalized due to Covid are much, much greater for unvaccinated people than if they were vaccinated.  This kind of data has been reported by multiple jurisdictions for months now.  

 

So yes, if you are unvaccinated by choice, you are the problem.  Period.  Publicly available data backs me up.  You, just got anecdotal "evidence" and some quack on a self-proclaimed "idiots" podcast is all you got.   Sad.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0231-002415

 

Past week, cases per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Dec. 9-15)    

• Not vaccinated: 186.1
• Partially vaccinated: 33.8
• Fully vaccinated: 42.9

Past two weeks, cases hospitalized per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Dec. 2-15)

• Not vaccinated: 23.8
• Partially vaccinated: 4.9
• Fully vaccinated: 1.0

Edited December 18, 2021 by thedestroyerofworlds

[Sapper]

I think the NHL should adopt something similar to the NFL starting Feb 1st if the medical facts conclude that this new variant isn't anywhere near as sever

 

- continue safety measures in place

- continue player testing until the WHO declares it to be an endemic. At that point only symptomatic individuals need to be tested 

- for the  new variant any testing positive be allowed to return immediately following one negative test

- for all others testing positive with Delta variant maintain 2 negative test requirements 

 

 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Just now, iwtl said:

I think the NHL should adopt something similar to the NFL starting Feb 1st if the medical facts conclude that this new variant isn't anywhere near as sever

 

- continue safety measures in place

- continue player testing until the WHO declares it to be an endemic. At that point only symptomatic individuals need to be tested 

- for the  new variant any testing positive be allowed to return immediately following one negative test

- for all others testing positive with Delta variant maintain 2 negative test requirements 

 

 

I think the protocols for fully vaccinated players is a little harsh.  Unvaccinated, not so much.  

In other news, Kyrie got the 'rona

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32895227/kevin-durant-becomes-8th-brooklyn-nets-player-enter-nba-health-safety-protocol

Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving latest Brooklyn Nets players to enter NBA's health and safety protocols

[Warhippy]

35 minutes ago, bolt said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-says-hospitalizations-in-omicron-wave-much-lower

 

Yes we do "KNOW" it's more mild than delta.

 

"Only 1.7% of identified Covid-19 cases were admitted to hospital in the second week of infections in the fourth wave, compared with 19% in the same week of the third delta-driven wave"

 

If you factor in all the cases that the who believes aren't reported then the rate is 0.24% who require a hospital visit.  The death rate is currently in the fraction of a fraction percentage wise.  This is coming from an area which is only 26% fully vaccinated.

 

 

 

Again, and a day AFTER the article you posted.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/omicron-gets-around-previous-covid-infection-u-k-study-warns

 

The Imperial College London team analyzed all the PCR test-confirmed Covid cases in England between Nov. 29 and Dec. 11, making it one of the most expansive examinations yet at omicron’s potential to evade the body’s defenses. The results were in line with the picture emerging of the variant’s capacity to elude protection from previous infection or inoculation and spread faster than earlier iterations of the virus. 

There was no evidence of omicron cases being less severe than delta, based on the proportion of people testing positive who had symptoms or went to the hospital, the team said.