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35 minutes ago, gurn said:

 

I've admitted before to not being a math wizard, so please correct me if I'm wrong but:

Unvaxxed 5 and over equals 16.6 %  so call it 20%.   or 1/5 the rest of the pop.

20% of the 724 fully vaccinated = 145

currrent unvaxxed hospitalized =  286

 

means there could have been 141 empty beds or beds used for things other than looking after unvaxxed people.


From Global News  - BC hospitals have:

 

115 people in ICU    
 57 on ventilators

 50 unvaccinated in ICU

 3 people 19 years old or younger in ICU

 

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6 hours ago, JM_ said:

but that doesn't make sense, no pet stores, boarding or dog grooming has been shut down during the pandemic. I have two dogs and haven't had any issues other than sometimes waiting outside for an appointment. 

sir they shut me down to three days a week

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1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

How are people handling friends that post ridiculous stuff on social media? I have one parading UK's lifting of restrictions as them beating Canada? Talk about a total lack of awareness and being misinformed.

I saw that today.  The total lifting of ALL mandates from masks to passports and it's wide open.  Even pushing people back to the office over working from home.

 

All I'd say is thank you for being the world's litmus test

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1 hour ago, gurn said:

 

I've admitted before to not being a math wizard, so please correct me if I'm wrong but:

Unvaxxed 5 and over equals 16.6 %  so call it 20%.   or 1/5 the rest of the pop.

20% of the 724 fully vaccinated = 145

currrent unvaxxed hospitalized =  286

 

means there could have been 141 empty beds or beds used for things other than looking after unvaxxed people.

You're probably right

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40 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I saw that today.  The total lifting of ALL mandates from masks to passports and it's wide open.  Even pushing people back to the office over working from home.

 

All I'd say is thank you for being the world's litmus test

His successor sure is going to look like a bad guy when it all falls apart

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57 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Pet stores shut down?  What?  Who are the “they” that shut your pet store down?  

I am only allowed to be open three days a week,  That would be the government

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17 hours ago, Mossberg said:

Boris Johnson ending all covid restrictions in England. Hopefully the first domino to fall in the western world

 

CBC link not working for me

 

 

This is a desperate ploy of a politician trying to deflect from his personal controversies and trying to hold onto power at all costs. 

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12 hours ago, Bell said:

sir they shut me down to three days a week

was that at the start or over the entire pandemic? or something specific to home based businesses?  I'm confused because our regular place In Vancouver that does both boarding and grooming has been open the entire time. 

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Boris is going full on Trump hoping to empower the last of his supporter base.  At least he is giving most people 7 days notice that they now are purgable commidities for the disposible pleausre of the anti crowd.

 

He should at least give the same 7 day notie that anyone unvaxxed by choice will no longer get free healthcare if they ontract covid. That would be fair - if the vaxinated have to take on the risk from unxvaxxed by the complete re opening then why should they also ahve to pay the bills of the uncvaxxed.

 

His goverments choice of words like to stop criminilizing those that dont wear masks etc demonstrate that is no about medically based decisions rather dog whistling to people he can count on to idol worship him for these moves

 

This will backfire horribly im afraid ...... I get it that onces this variant has run its course that its time to start living with covid and finding ways forward .... but to remove all saftey measures at once is insane

 

Look for Kenney to pull this stunt as well and doug ford to be close behind. Like pre teen school fads cons dont want to be the last cool kid to wear the new styles

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14 hours ago, kurtis said:

Make them pay for the treatment!!!!! 

Lol, I have an anti-vax friend who is extremely cheap (especially for a guy that grew up rich). It would be entertaining to see if he would crumble ... probably not but watching him lose his mind over a $700 payment would be ironic.

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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/what-hospitalization-data-really-say-about-covid-19-vaccines/ar-AASXMtC?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

In the battle over COVID vaccination, opponents of the shots have fixed on a new target, one they insist shows the vaccines are a failure and immunization mandates unjustified.

 

The claim revolves around statistics that indicate the unvaccinated are being admitted to Canadian hospitals and intensive-care units in numbers similar to, or even smaller than, the fully vaccinated.

That being the case, the argument goes, vaccine resisters are no burden to the health-care system and there’s little point getting immunized.

“It is clear that the experimental gene therapy does not work the way it was advertised,” asserted the Kingston regional association of Maxime Bernier’s People’s Party of Canada in a recent Tweet . “So why would anyone take it?”

But those same data actually do clearly illustrate the positive impact of vaccination, though seeing it requires a bit more context and number-crunching. The simpler, false analysis is what Raywat Deonandan, a University of Ottawa epidemiologist, called the “base-rate fallacy” in a recent blog post. It also underlines how the raw epidemiological facts of the pandemic have become a weapon of sorts in the vaccine wars.

Regardless, because the unvaccinated are now a much smaller pool of people, a similar absolute number of them in hospital still means that a far higher percentage are getting seriously ill.

And then there is the age factor. The risk of serious COVID disease is greater in older people, who are also more likely to be vaccinated. So when the even-smaller number of unvaccinated elderly fill up the ICUs at the same rate as the more-numerous fully immunized, it indicates they are much more apt to be made badly sick by the virus.

In Ontario, for instance, unvaccinated people over 60 were 15 times more likely over the last 30 days to end up in the ICU with COVID than the fully vaccinated, according to Public Health Ontario figures.

“The vaccines have been an incredible success story,” said Dr. Prabhat Jha, an epidemiology professor at the University of Toronto. “When people are vaccinated, the rates of hospitalizations and deaths are far, far lower.”

And even among those admitted to the ICU – the destination for the sickest COVID patients — there is a key difference between the two groups, says one front-line physician.

Dr. David Jacobs, a radiologist at Toronto’s Humber River Regional Hospital, said most of the people at his centre who wind up on a breathing machine – a last-ditch treatment that can leave long-term side-effects even for patients who survive it – are unvaccinated.

The vaccinated are more likely to just need high-flow oxygen, a relatively non-invasive therapy that usually sees patients go home sooner, said Jacobs, who routinely scans COVID patients.

“From the imaging point of view, the holy-smokes pneumonias are in the unvaccinated population,” said the Ontario Association of Radiologists president. “The more mild pneumonias are in vaccinated patients…. People tend to recover faster from it and it does less damage to their lungs.”

In the ICU of Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto where Dr. Michael Detsky works, it appears most of the COVID patients are unvaccinated, he says. And the fully vaccinated are often immune-compromised, people for whom the jabs may be less effective, noted the University of Toronto professor. Though it’s hard to generalize, Detsky said many of his patients voice “some degree of regret” about not getting a COVID shot.

“People do ask ‘Now that I’m here, when can I get the vaccine?’ ”

A new webpage of data launched recently by the Ontario Health Ministry, though, suggests how some skeptics have gotten a different impression.

The version available Wednesday showed 2,044 fully vaccinated, 770 unvaccinated and 174 partially vaccinated in the province’s hospitals but not intensive care. In the ICUs, 224 were fully vaccinated, 18 partially vaccinated and 185 unvaccinated.

“They’re kind of unhelpful,” Dr. Jeff Kwong, a University of Toronto epidemiologist, said about those figures. “You really have to take into account the proportion of the population that is vaccinated and unvaccinated.”

In fact, 83 per cent of eligible Ontarians five and older and 89 per cent over 12 are fully vaccinated, while the unvaccinated make up eight-to-11 per cent of those populations. Just on that basis, the unvaccinated are about four times more likely to need intensive care when infected by COVID. But the ratio of vaccinated people versus unvaccinated climbs even higher with age, as does the percentage of individuals who get severely ill.

So the rate of unvaccinated people in ICUs in Ontario adjusted or “standardized” for age is 254 per million, compared to 22 fully vaccinated, according to the province’s science advisory table .

A similar picture emerges in Alberta, where provincial government statistics indicate that 598 per 100,000 unvaccinated were hospitalized over the last 120 days, versus 81 per 100,000 fully vaccinated and 39 per 100,000 who have had three doses.

“The majority of people experiencing severe outcomes are still unvaccinated,” added Alberta government spokeswoman Chastity Anderson.

In B.C., the age-standardized rate of ICU admissions for the unvaccinated is 26 per 100,000, about seven times the 3.8-per-100,000 rate for the fully vaccinated, says the B.C. Centre for Disease Control .

Based on the data and his front-line experience, Jacobs sees no reason to doubt the benefits of immunization.

“If I could go out and have a heart-to-heart talk with every single person who is unvaccinated and explain to them what the potential negative consequences to being unvaccinated are,” said the radiologist, “a significant number of people would be saved a lot of suffering.”

( 9:15 a.m. Jan. 20, fixes reference to David Jacobs professional association role. )

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