Coronavirus outbreak

[Warhippy]

31 minutes ago, Mossberg said:

Except only about 50 % of people have gotten a 3rd shot. It just shows you what people really think about it if you're not threatening they're lively hoods with it

So, you're speaking for...people?  Like all people?  Some people?  Most people?  A few people who felt wearing a mask was an infringement on their rights because they couldn't sit their arses in a stool at the pub to whine about how Trudeau ruined their life today?

 

Which people are you speaking of?

 

Nobody's livelihoods were threatened.  BUSINESSES outside of health care made the decisions for THEMSELVES whether or not to require mandatory vaccination.  Countries required it for entrance.  That's why people going to the US needed the shot.  But hey, also the feds fault or?  

 

16 minutes ago, Mossberg said:

Maybe cause they aren't forced to to  keep a roof over they're heads or keep they're kids fed. Maybe they realized this vaccine is not as good as was told to them. Pfizer now admitted they never tested if it stopped transmission but that didn't stop the government from telling you it did and mandating it. They said if you got vaccinated you wouldn't get COVID. That was BS

They...are forced to keep their kids fed.  It's called abuse if they don't.  A roof over their head?  Again; optional for them but frowned upon if they don't do it for their kids.

 

Seems the data is showing you're entirely wrong again with still a vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths being in the unvaccinated category; or as we should now be calling it; the f**ked around and found out category.

 

This false narrative of he said they said we said nonsense needs to stop.  People taking one single series words from a much larger comprehensive statement does not vindicate them or prove them right.  Read the entirety of the pfizer release and statement.  Read exactly what the medical experts were saying.  Not just a sound bite.

 

As it was NEVER said it would stop transmission.  It was never said it was 100% effective.  it was never said it would prevent you from catching it.

 

I know it doesn't fit in to your narrative that the government was wrong, the medical experts, all of the millions of them were wrong.  That the data, millions of man hour tests runs were wrong.  That Jenny the soccer mom who saw jesus in her cats butthole and tasted aluminum in her oj after burshing her teeth and decided that the gy-na virus was man made and the vaccine was meant to sterilize good judeo christian males was right

 

But try.  Like...just try

Edited October 19, 2022 by Warhippy

[DrJockitch]

Are we really still arguing this. 
‘COVID killed millions. It wasn’t just a flu.

‘We underestimate and misunderstand the flu dramatically.
The vaccines have been an incredible success at reducing death, illness and long COVID. They are also incredibly notable technology that brings a new era to adaptable vaccine development.

‘The virus evolves and changes. Not sure why this is surprising to people. The flu of 1918 is still evolving and killing 10s of thousands a year, that is what the annual flu is. Every year flu shots save lives and continue to be mandated where appropriate. 
If these facts don’t fit your narrative than continue to ignore them but stop attacking people who are trying to prevent illness and save lives. 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Are we really still arguing this. 
‘COVID killed millions. It wasn’t just a flu.

‘We underestimate and misunderstand the flu dramatically.
The vaccines have been an incredible success at reducing death, illness and long COVID. They are also incredibly notable technology that brings a new era to adaptable vaccine development.

‘The virus evolves and changes. Not sure why this is surprising to people. The flu of 1918 is still evolving and killing 10s of thousands a year, that is what the annual flu is. Every year flu shots save lives and continue to be mandated where appropriate. 
If these facts don’t fit your narrative than continue to ignore them but stop attacking people who are trying to prevent illness and save lives. 

all I want to add to this ^ is, lets also stop trying to force something on people that will fight tooth and nail to not to follow expert advice. 

 

I know you don't agree, but at some point we really need to consider a triage system for anti-vax people of whatever stripe they are, covid, flu, measles, whatever. 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by JM_

[mdehaan]

12 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Are we really still arguing this. 
‘COVID killed millions. It wasn’t just a flu.

‘We underestimate and misunderstand the flu dramatically.
The vaccines have been an incredible success at reducing death, illness and long COVID. They are also incredibly notable technology that brings a new era to adaptable vaccine development.

‘The virus evolves and changes. Not sure why this is surprising to people. The flu of 1918 is still evolving and killing 10s of thousands a year, that is what the annual flu is. Every year flu shots save lives and continue to be mandated where appropriate. 
If these facts don’t fit your narrative than continue to ignore them but stop attacking people who are trying to prevent illness and save lives. 

Yup, we are.

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

all I want to add to this ^ is, lets also stop trying to force something on people that will fight tooth and nail to not to follow expert advice. 

 

I know you don't agree, but at some point we really need to consider a triage system for anti-vax people of whatever stripe they are, covid, flu, measles, whatever. 

 

Then we can start discriminating against the smokers and the obese for making bad choices. 
Healthcare will be so much cheaper if we just stop covering people who get sick. 

[JM_]

Just now, DrJockitch said:

Then we can start discriminating against the smokers and the obese for making bad choices. 
Healthcare will be so much cheaper if we just stop covering people who get sick. 

but you know there's a difference between choices that effect just you, and ones that can have an effect on many. Being a smoker isn't like being from a group thats OK to spread measles. 

 

Smokers have never overrun the healthcare system. 

[The Arrogant Worms]

15 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Yup, we are.

You are.

[DrJockitch]

8 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but you know there's a difference between choices that effect just you, and ones that can have an effect on many. Being a smoker isn't like being from a group thats OK to spread measles. 

 

Smokers have never overrun the healthcare system. 

They cost every one of us a lot of money in the long run.  The costs of all the testing, copd treatments both chronic and acute. The costs of the vascular disease drugs, testing and surgeries. The cancer investigations, treatments, specialists and surgeries. It is astounding how much smoking taxes the healthcare system both literally and figuratively. 
‘I agree it is less aggressively selfish than not taking basic precautions against spreading a very transmissible virus.  The long term health care costs alone of what was preventable long COVID will pile up over the years.  That and the current crumbling system that needs an injection of youth.

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

They cost every one of us a lot of money in the long run.  The costs of all the testing, copd treatments both chronic and acute. The costs of the vascular disease drugs, testing and surgeries. The cancer investigations, treatments, specialists and surgeries. It is astounding how much smoking taxes the healthcare system both literally and figuratively. 
‘I agree it is less aggressively selfish than not taking basic precautions against spreading a very transmissible virus.  The long term health care costs alone of what was preventable long COVID will pile up over the years.  That and the current crumbling system that needs an injection of youth.

for sure it costs us. But it doesn't all come in one big wave. 

 

We use the 'reasonable person' test for a lot of legal issues in Canada. All I want to do is apply it to public health. Would a reasonable person be a hard core anti-vaxxer? Would a reasonable person keep their child from a measles or polio shot?

 

On a personal level its far harder to triage based on lifestyle. But for some public health issues like pandemics or other outbreaks, there's another layer of public safety.

 

[Gurn]

20 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

They cost every one of us a lot of money in the long run.  The costs of all the testing, copd treatments both chronic and acute. The costs of the vascular disease drugs, testing and surgeries. The cancer investigations, treatments, specialists and surgeries. It is astounding how much smoking taxes the healthcare system both literally and figuratively. 
‘I agree it is less aggressively selfish than not taking basic precautions against spreading a very transmissible virus.  The long term health care costs alone of what was preventable long COVID will pile up over the years.  That and the current crumbling system that needs an injection of youth.

20 years ago, or more, the government should have made it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone under 19. The next year they should have made it illegal to smoke under 20 years of age, then 21 and so on.

by now there would be a heck of a lot less smokers.

[mdehaan]

1 hour ago, DS4quality said:

They never once said it prevented transmission, but the odds were lower if both were vaccinated.  They never said it would prevent you from getting sick because right off the bat they said no vaccine is 100% effective. It was about preventing serious illness and overcrowding our hospitals, which were getting slammed. 

Next time you need a doctor just pray 

 

How many examples do you need?

Edited October 19, 2022 by mdehaan

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

 

How many examples do you need?

its hard to believe that you would rank this higher than public health care professionals advice. 

 

But you do. And I don't want to argue it with you, think what you want to.

 

But I also don't think you should bump someone else's care because you made a vaccine decision, if you chose to not get vaccinated. 

 

 

[mdehaan]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

its hard to believe that you would rank this higher than public health care professionals advice. 

 

But you do. And I don't want to argue it with you, think what you want to.

 

But I also don't think you should bump someone else's care because you made a vaccine decision, if you chose to not get vaccinated. 

 

 

Public health care professionals like an infectious disease expert, Dr Fauci and Pfizer executive? The ones in this video?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

Public health care professionals like an infectious disease expert, Dr Fauci and Pfizer executive? The ones in this video?

like I said, I don't care what you believe.

 

If you chose not to get vaccinated, I just don't want you bumping the health services of someone who did. 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, Mossberg said:

Maybe cause they aren't forced to to  keep a roof over they're heads or keep they're kids fed. Maybe they realized this vaccine is not as good as was told to them. Pfizer now admitted they never tested if it stopped transmission but that didn't stop the government from telling you it did and mandating it. They said if you got vaccinated you wouldn't get COVID. That was BS

Incorrect. Much like the rest of your posting.

[JM_]

Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

Incorrect. Much like the rest of your posting.

this is a good example of what I'm talking about. Why even bother? you're never going to convince him he's wrong. In fact, I think arguing with them just hardens their positions. 

[DS4quality]

21 minutes ago, mdehaan said:

 

How many examples do you need?

You still need herd immunity. If 25% of people are allowing covid to mutate it won't work. It's a strain that keeps evolving particularity in the unvaccinated. But let's take a few clips out of context so we can dupe the uneducated

 

Anyway I hope you never need a hospital, or any medicine because you are a genius who can use YouTube to cure yourself. 

It sucks for my friends who work in labs and do medical research to have some rubes on the internet who claim

To know better than scientists because YouTube told them so.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by DS4quality

[JM_]

Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

2nd hand smoke says, "Bonjour!"

 

And many of the chronic illnesses that exist today likely have a root in smoking, whether it's the smoker themself, or from 2nd hand smoke.

 

Not to mention carelessly discarded cigarette butts are also contaminating our environment and also (in a much more slower and pervasive way) impacting our health, be it from sparking forest fires, to leaching volatiles into our water sources, to entering our food chain through bioaccumulation when animals inadvertently consume them (and they become consumed by animals higher up the food chain).

 

I agree with @gurn's lament that the governments of the day from a couple of decades ago should have laid down the law and made selling of cigarettes illegal - I would have taken it one step further and outlawed smoking altogether for that age bracket, and increased the age by 1 each successive year.

sure all of that is true, but it doesn't produce a wave of patients overloading the system all at once. 

 

Covid, measles, polio, etc. are public health problems that can overwhelm the system in waves. That is different from smokers in todays context. 

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

So let's just ignore that those with chronic issues arising from smoking are taking up hospital beds and contributing to the load on the system at all.  Because it's only the waves that matter.  

 

News flash: if those people with chronic issues weren't taking up health care resources, the health care system would be better able to address waves when they arise.

we all end up with chronic issues and use more and more of the system if we live long enough. Its part of aging. 

 

Very different from a choice to not get vaccinated. 

 

Also, not sure what the rolly eye thing is about? you don't think waves of disease matter? I

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by JM_

[Mossberg]

11 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Incorrect. Much like the rest of your posting.

Except they did. See mdehan post