DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, coastal.view said: the netherlands was one of the countries slow to respond their stats will reflect that Another factor for sure. However that rate will still likely change as the most vulnerable will likely be protected better with more extreme measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I HAVE to go out to check on a Dad who is pretty much bed ridden. I'm not out there for pleasure...it's necessity. So consider that some are being put in the line of fire for others and "asking them nicely" has already been done (by our Government). I do want everybody to stay home, other than essential, food, gas, pharmacy and looking after those who need help. But I do not think anything short of jail time will stop some of the stupid people from doing stupid things. And jail time exposes the cops, the jailer, lawyer etc. to contact with possible infected people. Also exposes those minglers to the cops/jailers et all that may already be infected. Not sure if that helps society or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, coastal.view said: the netherlands was one of the countries slow to respond their stats will reflect that How many more stats do you need. The only way to stop it, Is to stop spreading it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Mackcanuck said: How many more stats do you need. The only way to stop it, Is to stop spreading it !!! and that is achieved by???? social distancing and frequent handwashing and cleaning surfaces where virus might have landed what do you propose ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, EmilyM said: It's both the fault of government and the people who continue to gather. One of the issues I have is that the government keeps closing off access to certain non-essential services, but not others. Parks are closed but they leave beaches open. People who aren't taking the quarantine seriously go to the beach because "the government still allows it" and the numbers pile up. Then the government goes on to ask people not to gather at beaches but refuse to close them off. Shut it all (non-essential) down. Yes unfortunately half measures don’t work. People will keep going to places that are still open. The only way people will take this more seriously is with serious measures. That will likely mean taking away certain civil liberties which the government obviously wanted to avoid. It’s like giving a child several warnings before taking their toys away and sending them to a timeout. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, DeNiro said: Yes unfortunately half measures don’t work. People will keep going to places that are still open. The only way people will take this more seriously is with serious measures. That will likely mean taking away certain civil liberties which the government obviously wanted to avoid. It’s like giving a child several warnings before taking their toys away and sending them to a timeout. except you only punish the disobeying child not all children these general sanctions propose to restrict everyone needlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, coastal.view said: except you only punish the disobeying child not all children these general sanctions propose to restrict everyone needlessly That’s what living in a society is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, DeNiro said: That’s what living in a society is. this makes no sense be clearer ? your analogy does not work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: That will likely mean taking away certain civil liberties which the government obviously wanted to avoid. Smart of them to try this first. There are more than a few folk that are staying home right now, but if the government starts removing civil liberties are going to weapon up and tell the government to go pound sand. Stupid people get stupider when pushed. They just don't have the intelligence to process societies needs above their own. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 29 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Yep, that's what happens when people act selfishly and don't follow the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, DeNiro said: These stats don’t mean a whole lot right now and only add more fear to the situation. Since way more people have the virus than have been tested the “death rate” will not be close to accurate. Also many of these deaths will have come from cases that were contracted before certain measures were put in place so one would think the curve will start to change. This is not accurate. The Netherlands adopted the "herd immunity" strategy... which meant it became necessary to document all cases, regardless of severity... So, while you are generally correct, you are not correct about the Netherlands. They would be one country especially insistent on knowing the exact prevalence of COVID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, coastal.view said: this makes no sense be clearer ? your analogy does not work You have to put forth measures for the society as a whole. Punishing people one at a time will not work. It not only wastes resources and does little to curb behaviour, it won’t help flatten the curve at the rate we need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, Down by the River said: This is not accurate. The Netherlands adopted the "herd immunity" strategy... which meant it became necessary to document all cases, regardless of severity... So, while you are generally correct, you are not correct about the Netherlands. They would be one country especially insistent on knowing the exact prevalence of COVID. Except as experts have said not all people show symptoms therefore not all people who had it would have been tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Except as experts have said not all people show symptoms therefore not all people who had it would have been tested. Using a new blood test, researchers from the Dutch blood banks under Sanquin will carry out a national population screening for coronavirus Covid-19. The aim is to find out how widely the virus is spread and how quickly society is building up immunity against it, AD reports. https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/19/blood-banks-test-covid-19-herd-immunity-netherlands-report They are literally screening their population. Showing symptoms is not a requirement to be tested. What also needs clarification is that they delay of the onset of symptoms shouldn't impact the death rate (unless the delay of the onset of symptoms actually has an impact on the magnitude of symptoms), only the prevalence of cases that test positive. Edited March 22, 2020 by Down by the River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, Down by the River said: Using a new blood test, researchers from the Dutch blood banks under Sanquin will carry out a national population screening for coronavirus Covid-19. The aim is to find out how widely the virus is spread and how quickly society is building up immunity against it, AD reports. https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/19/blood-banks-test-covid-19-herd-immunity-netherlands-report From three days ago. It hasn’t been done yet therefore they would not have the accurate numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, Down by the River said: Using a new blood test, researchers from the Dutch blood banks under Sanquin will carry out a national population screening for coronavirus Covid-19. The aim is to find out how widely the virus is spread and how quickly society is building up immunity against it, AD reports. https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/19/blood-banks-test-covid-19-herd-immunity-netherlands-report i guess i need to review again what the netherlands is actually doing but this is not what herd immunity is herd immunity is based on vaccines being available where there are none, this concept does not work what it amounts to without a vaccine is basically doing nothing to fend off the virus but just counting who gets ill and letting the virus run its course not sure why a country with a modern medical system would do little to fend off a deadly virus i'd think its citizens would expect more boris suggested a "herd immunity" approach and was beaten down by his citizens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: From three days ago. It hasn’t been done yet therefore they would not have the accurate numbers. That's when the article was published. They have been doing it prior to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, coastal.view said: i guess i need to review again what the netherlands is actually doing but this is not what herd immunity is herd immunity is based on vaccines being available where there are none, this concept does not work what it amounts to without a vaccine is basically doing nothing to fend off the virus but just counting who gets ill and letting the virus run its course not sure why a country with a modern medical system would do little to fend off a deadly virus i'd think its citizens would expect more boris suggested a "herd immunity" approach and was beaten down by his citizens I don't know how you keep showing up in my feed because I put you on the ignore list... but anyway... If you want to understand herd immunity you need to understand how many people have the virus to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Down by the River said: I don't know how you keep showing up in my feed because I put you on the ignore list... but anyway... If you want to understand herd immunity you need to understand how many people have the virus to begin with. i do not think you understand the concept without vaccines it is not a concept but a death wish herd im·mu·ni·ty noun noun: herd immunity; plural noun: herd immunities the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination. "the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease but ranges from 83 to 94 percent" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Down by the River said: That's when the article was published. They have been doing it prior to that. Nothing in that article states that. It says they are starting to do it and don’t have results yet. They are also only testing people who voluntarily donate blood from a sample of 10,000. It will give them a better idea on the numbers but it will still be far from an accurate representation. So many other factors involved like age range, health of the donors, and regions where the blood is taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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